Merseyrail EMU availability

[HuggyB87]

Merseyrail are currently running a heavily reduced service due to a large volume of their units being “off the road”, mainly due to what they describe as wheel bearing faults.

How likely is it that a large number of their units (last I heard it was around 50% of their overall unit count) are suffering from the same, unusual, fault?

 

[D821]

The fault has been discussed here:

Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)

I think if much more goes wrong with 507s and 508s they'll have to just press the 777s into service with whatever working arrangements the staff are currently used to on the old stock (I think they've now had guard's panels fitted in case they need to do this) and worry about negotiating...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[swt_passenger]

I think the problems of Merseyrail‘s fleet are already being discussed here:

Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)

Hi all, Looked at all other Merseyrail 507/508 fleet discussions but threads have been locked so have created this new thread for the time being. Posted on the Mersey Railways group on Facebook that 508143 will be leaving Kirkdale in the early hours of Tuesday morning and going to Derby R.T.C...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[prod_pep]

Yet another stock shortage this week. Four booked six car formations are short-formed this morning, whilst a fifth unit is about to be withdrawn with the replacements still months away.

 

[507020]

Yet another stock shortage this week. Four booked six car formations are short-formed this morning, whilst a fifth unit is about to be withdrawn with the replacements still months away.

Which one? I noticed 2 Class 777 test diagrams running simultaneously on Friday.

 

[paddyb6]

508140 soon to go if that's what you're asking.

 

[prod_pep]

Five more weeks of constant, daily short-formings and it gets worse instead of better. They've just Tweeted that six of the booked paired formations tonight are to be short-formed, leaving the Ormskirk line with three cars across the board. It's a disgrace and there is no sign of it abating, but if you believe our local rag, all the problems are solved and the stock shortage issues are in the past.

Unforgivably, the 1651 Hunts Cross - Southport is one of the casualties. This should be the highest priority service on the network to be a six car due to the loads it receives.

Edit: Bizarre. The 1651 Hunts X - Southport is wrongly showing on the boards as six car. No excuses for this.

 

[507020]

Five more weeks of constant, daily short-formings and it gets worse instead of better. They've just Tweeted that six of the booked paired formations tonight are to be short-formed, leaving the Ormskirk line with three cars across the board. It's a disgrace and there is no sign of it abating, but if you believe our local rag, all the problems are solved and the stock shortage issues are in the past.

Unforgivably, the 1651 Hunts Cross - Southport is one of the casualties. This should be the highest priority service on the network to be a six car due to the loads it receives.

Edit: Bizarre. The 1651 Hunts X - Southport is wrongly showing on the boards as six car. No excuses for this.

Well how is the hourly 777 driver training path (if that’s what it is) on the Kirkby line going? If that line finally receives the new stock this year, will that not free up PEPs for other services and 6 cars rather than scrap initially?

I do miss the 3tph all 6 car service of the last Covid timetable (with the bus connections in Southport also being 3 an hour!) I haven’t seen a 6 car at all recently except the last train from Southport

 

[D821]

I've not seen a 6 car for about 3 months, I reckon.

 

[Skie]

Plenty of 6 cars still running to/from Southport, no clue how you’re missing them all.

 

[Sam 76]

I've not seen a 6 car for about 3 months, I reckon.

Starting with the 16:38 off central to Southport they are 6 cars on the Southport line until just after 6 I believe . Not sure about ormskirk though I know the 17:16 is normally 6 cars as I see it all the time

 

[Liverpool 507]

There is also still the issue of the time of year where we see square wheels which will mean more units will require the wheel lathe.

 

[Sam 76]

It’s worth remembering also that it’s remarkable these units are doing as well as they are. To be doing 100’s of miles each day at their age is a real achievement for all involved. It’s natural that things will go wrong as they get older and this week proved that but let’s hope they keep going for that bit longer and continue to do the job they’ve done so well for so long

 

[Skie]

Yep, they’ve done a remarkable run. And the teams maintaining them shouldn’t be forgotten as they’re performing miracles keeping trains going where the original manufacturer and parts supply ceased to exist decades ago.

 

[Sam 76]

Yep, they’ve done a remarkable run. And the teams maintaining them shouldn’t be forgotten as they’re performing miracles keeping trains going where the original manufacturer and parts supply ceased to exist decades ago.

Couldn’t agree more it’s a real success story

 

[geoffk]

It’s worth remembering also that it’s remarkable these units are doing as well as they are. To be doing 100’s of miles each day at their age is a real achievement for all involved. It’s natural that things will go wrong as they get older and this week proved that but let’s hope they keep going for that bit longer and continue to do the job they’ve done so well for so long

How many units have been withdrawn prematurely, i.e. before their replacements are ready to enter service? It's not only on Merseyrail that this is happening.

 

[Sam 76]

How many units have been withdrawn prematurely, i.e. before their replacements are ready to enter service? It's not only on Merseyrail that this is happening.

I think we’ve lost 4.? 3 for scrap and one on the Kirkby incident. However I believe those 508’s hit mileage so had to go without major overhaul which wasn’t going to happen to be scrapped months after

 

[prod_pep]

I think we’ve lost 4.? 3 for scrap and one on the Kirkby incident. However I believe those 508’s hit mileage so had to go without major overhaul which wasn’t going to happen to be scrapped months after

The thing is, that's exactly what is happening to the 507s which are still being overhauled. They could easily have retained those 508s which have gone for longer.

 

[Skie]

The thing is, that's exactly what is happening to the 507s which are still being overhauled. They could easily have retained those 508s which have gone for longer.

I'm led to believe the 508s have underfloor corrosion issues whilst the 507s don't.

 

[Sam 76]

I'm led to believe the 508s have underfloor corrosion issues whilst the 507s don't.

Yeah I’ve heard of this as well. It’s going to get interesting soon if 508’s keep going and the 777’s still not in service. I can imagine there’s more units coming up to their maximum mileage now

 

[kemal]

Yeah I’ve heard of this as well. It’s going to get interesting soon if 508’s keep going and the 777’s still not in service. I can imagine there’s more units coming up to their maximum mileage now

Does anyone know which units are out of service please?

 

[Liverpool 507]

December has been mentioned for the next 508 to leave the fleet.

 

[Sam 76]

December has been mentioned for the next 508 to leave the fleet.

That’s the concern I think. Is that it will be ok after the 777 come in on the Kirkby line but the pressure is going to mount up on the fleet between now and then

 

[DJH1971]

December has been mentioned for the next 508 to leave the fleet.

Any idea which one?

 

[Sam 76]

Any idea which one?

I believe all the face covering ones are going first but I’m not sure which one or numbers they are

 

[nedchester]

I believe all the face covering ones are going first but I’m not sure which one or numbers they are

Not happening until the 777's are in service.

 

[Sam 76]

Not happening until the 777's are in service.

That’s so good to hear honestly. Am I right though the face covering ones are the first to go ? Sure I read it somewhere

 

[D821]

Out of interest, is there any penalty to the TOC if they keep using a unit that's overdue on a major service? For example, if they just wanted to use a unit for a few months until its replacement was ready to use.

 

[prod_pep]

That’s so good to hear honestly. Am I right though the face covering ones are the first to go ? Sure I read it somewhere

That was the plan before the 777 delays but not now. Both 508120 and 508131 were overhauled in autumn 2021 so have years of mileage left. However, 508123 has not been overhauled so will almost certainly be the next unit to go, tying in with the December withdrawal mentioned above.

After 508123, based on the overhaul cycle I expect 508122 to be the next casualty, followed by the units once in the Merseytravel revised livery: 508111, 508115, 508117, 508127, 508128 or 508138.

 

[Skie]

Out of interest, is there any penalty to the TOC if they keep using a unit that's overdue on a major service? For example, if they just wanted to use a unit for a few months until its replacement was ready to use.

No insurance, loss of license to operate and corporate manslaughter if something goes truly wrong. It’s a safety thing, running trains without servicing them is negligence of the highest order.