Merseyrail day saver

[mickey]

If I buy a single zone ticket (£3.30) but later decide I want to travel further, can I buy an excess to the all zones ticket?

For the avoidance of doubt I would do this at a ticket office in the original zone, so as to avoid any prospect of a 'discussion' with the horribly nasty RPIs working these routes.

(Incidentally, if 'northwirrallines' is the destination on the TVM for all zones, what is it for the one zone ticket?)

 

[Pumbaa]

There's a single zone ticket?

 

[northwichcat]

There's a single zone ticket?

To be confusing it has the word 'SINGLE' printed on it in large letters.

There's some information here: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/chairmansblog/2011/03/23/merseyrail-the-single-thats-much-much-more/

 

[Paul Kelly]

Is this because the software in the ticket vending machines can't handle issuing rover/ranger tickets, so they've hacked the day saver into the fares database as a normal single ticket instead?

 

[mickey]

There's a single zone ticket?

To be confusing it has the word 'SINGLE' printed on it in large letters.

I wasn't talking about the wording on the ticket! Yes they sell single zone tickets, following the normal Merseytravel zones (B, C, and D - but not A as that's St Helens and no ME trains run there). Given the reason they were introduced in the first place, they kind of had to - most Saveaways bought by local people are for one zone only and if Merseyrail wanted to muscle in on the revenue they had to offer something similar!

Ticket office staff have no problem issuing them, though they're always surprised when I say I don't want a Saveaway as they too know they're better value (I have a railcard so am one of the few exceptions to this - I wouldn't buy one otherwise. The price is £2.40, c.f. £3.40 for a Saveaway). The destination is marked as 'ME ONLY AREA B', and still has the Maltese Cross on it.

What I wanted to know is whether this ticket can be excessed to the All Zones 'northwirrallines' ticket if I decide I want to go further than the one zone - perhaps First Class might know?

 

[First class]

I wasn't talking about the wording on the ticket! Yes they sell single zone tickets, following the normal Merseytravel zones (B, C, and D - but not A as that's St Helens and no ME trains run there). Given the reason they were introduced in the first place, they kind of had to - most Saveaways bought by local people are for one zone only and if Merseyrail wanted to muscle in on the revenue they had to offer something similar!

Ticket office staff have no problem issuing them, though they're always surprised when I say I don't want a Saveaway as they too know they're better value (I have a railcard so am one of the few exceptions to this - I wouldn't buy one otherwise. The price is £2.40, c.f. £3.40 for a Saveaway). The destination is marked as 'ME ONLY AREA B', and still has the Maltese Cross on it.

What I wanted to know is whether this ticket can be excessed to the All Zones 'northwirrallines' ticket if I decide I want to go further than the one zone - perhaps First Class might know?

Unfortunately an excess is not available with the Day Saver product. However, if you bought it at a Merseyrail station using cash, most retailers will non-issue the ticket and re-issue an All Zone variant asking for the difference, but that is just a sort of unofficial workaround, but does happen often.

No chance doing that with a Saveaway due to PTE restrictions.

The "single" was because the product manager only wanted one coupon to print out, however, the only other ticket type that allows a sort of "day ticket" on one coupon is the London TravelCard, which has the LU logo so can't really be used, (although next week some £4 Travelcards with the LU logo will be getting issued for Aintree).

 

[mickey]

Unfortunately an excess is not available with the Day Saver product. However, if you bought it at a Merseyrail station using cash, most retailers will non-issue the ticket and re-issue an All Zone variant asking for the difference, but that is just a sort of unofficial workaround, but does happen often.

Thanks - that's exactly what I wanted to know. Does it have to be the original issuing station or will any of them do it? And is it official policy or just something most staff will do if they're feeling nice?

 

[clagmonster]

The "single" was because the product manager only wanted one coupon to print out, however, the only other ticket type that allows a sort of "day ticket" on one coupon is the London TravelCard, which has the LU logo so can't really be used, (although next week some £4 Travelcards with the LU logo will be getting issued for Aintree).

Surely there are lots of day rangers which print on only one coupon. Why would it be a problem for it to just be in the system as a ranger, which effectively is what it is. This would probably make it easier for out of area staff to issue them.

 

[First class]

Surely there are lots of day rangers which print on only one coupon. Why would it be a problem for it to just be in the system as a ranger, which effectively is what it is. This would probably make it easier for out of area staff to issue them.

Because the Saveaway would look near identical to the DaySaver and the potential is there for misuse on the buses, which is still a sore issue.

Retail staff also complained that it took longer to issue a ranger/rover and therefore queuing times were increasing.

mickey- not official policy and can be done (in theory) at any Merseyrail booking office. Just a non-issue and re-issue.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I have just looked and indeed London travel cards (ticket types ODT, ADT etc.) as well as Plusbus day tickets (PBD), are stored in the fares database as single tickets, so it seems there's a precedent has been set there. I guess the ticket issuing systems just use special templates for printing them so the word "SINGLE" doesn't appear.

Maybe the real issue is just then that the ticket issuing systems need to be loaded with special templates to be used when printing the "MSV" ME DAY SAVER ticket type, that have a different layout to a standard ticket and don't print the word "SINGLE"?

 

[First class]

I have just looked and indeed London travel cards (ticket types ODT, ADT etc.) as well as Plusbus day tickets (PBD), are stored in the fares database as single tickets, so it seems there's a precedent has been set there. I guess the ticket issuing systems just use special templates for printing them so the word "SINGLE" doesn't appear.

Maybe the real issue is just then that the ticket issuing systems need to be loaded with special templates to be used when printing the "MSV" ME DAY SAVER ticket type, that have a different layout to a standard ticket and don't print the word "SINGLE"?

Unfortunately even the simplest change to ticket issuing costs upwards of £75k afaik. ATOC (well ATOS Origin) aren't cheap!

Merseyrail have got a few new products coming out soon, and are using, lets say, non-conventional methods for issuing.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Thanks for the interesting insights!

Another thought - why do Merseytravel not use special ticket stock (at least I presume they don't from the comment about confusion to bus drivers) for the Saveaway, such as is done in the West Midlands and West Yorkshire for example?

 

[mickey]

Another thought - why do Merseytravel not use special ticket stock (at least I presume they don't from the comment about confusion to bus drivers) for the Saveaway, such as is done in the West Midlands and West Yorkshire for example?

They do - most are issued on scratchcard-style tickets where you select a date and seal the ticket yourself, and are standard across all other purchasing outlets (bus stations, newsagents, post offices, etc.). Merseyrail issued them this way too until last year, when they switched to rail-type stock. If they used alternative tickets they'd have to pay for them themselves! Merseytravel won't as they already make their own.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Merseyrail have got a few new products coming out soon, and are using, lets say, non-conventional methods for issuing.

Anything you're allowed to tell us about? (He asks, cheekily )

 

[First class]

They do - most are issued on scratchcard-style tickets where you select a date and seal the ticket yourself, and are standard across all other purchasing outlets (bus stations, newsagents, post offices, etc.). Merseyrail issued them this way too until last year, when they switched to rail-type stock. If they used alternative tickets they'd have to pay for them themselves! Merseytravel won't as they already make their own.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Anything you're allowed to tell us about? (He asks, cheekily )

Something for those who already have far too much money to dispense with!

 

[Paul Kelly]

They do - most are issued on scratchcard-style tickets where you select a date and seal the ticket yourself

The West Yorks ones have a scratchcard version too, that you can buy in post offices etc., but if you buy in a railway station what you get has a layout like a normal day ranger but is printed on special colourful stock.

If they used alternative tickets they'd have to pay for them themselves! Merseytravel won't as they already make their own.

I wouldn't have thought Northern Rail pay for the special WY ticket stock, but I could be wrong - point taken anyway.

Merseyrail issued them this way too until last year, when they switched to rail-type stock.

A-ha - I guess this explains why it is already a sore point then, if all the bus drivers have recently had to be told that they are to accept this thing that looks like a rail ticket but is actually a Saveaway, then it wouldn't do for the Merseyrail-only Day Savers to look somewhat similar...

Seems to me the most logical, cheap (for Merseyrail) and yet still a lot more passenger-friendly thing to do would be to have kept on issuing Saveaways as scratchcard-only, then put the day savers in the fares database as proper day rangers and issue them with a day ranger ticket layout rather than a single ticket layout. Should be no problem at all for booking office-issued tickets, but the question remains as to whether the software in the ticket vending machines is capable of issuing day rangers with the separate ticket layout they have. I have no idea...

 

[First class]

The West Yorks ones have a scratchcard version too, that you can buy in post offices etc., but if you buy in a railway station what you get has a layout like a normal day ranger but is printed on special colourful stock.

I wouldn't have thought Northern Rail pay for the special WY ticket stock, but I could be wrong - point taken anyway.



A-ha - I guess this explains why it is already a sore point then, if all the bus drivers have recently had to be told that they are to accept this thing that looks like a rail ticket but is actually a Saveaway, then it wouldn't do for the Merseyrail-only Day Savers to look somewhat similar...

Seems to me the most logical, cheap (for Merseyrail) and yet still a lot more passenger-friendly thing to do would be to have kept on issuing Saveaways as scratchcard-only, then put the day savers in the fares database as proper day rangers and issue them with a day ranger ticket layout rather than a single ticket layout. Should be no problem at all for booking office-issued tickets, but the question remains as to whether the software in the ticket vending machines is capable of issuing day rangers with the separate ticket layout they have. I have no idea...

The problem is the fact the smartcard ticketing is being brought in by Summer so likelehood of Saveaway and Day Saver staying is limited.
They will probably just cap the fare for multi-modal travel at £4.50 or rail-only travel at the Day Saver rate £4.40.

The main reasons scratch off saveaways were withdrawn was the Automatic Ticket Barriers, easier accounting procedures, and the fact stock couldn't "go missing".