Because the PTE are responsible for letting the concession? Just life DfT are responsible for the majority of TOCs, or TfL are for London Overground.
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Merseyrail day ranger
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Because they let the concession. I'm quite surprised it didn't include a rule of not setting their own competing fares; this situation is rather like TfL letting a bus contract but allowing Stagecoach or whoever to undercut the Travelcard/Bus Pass, and is essentially just as silly as TPE and Northern and their 5-10p fare undercutting.
This fare set at this level (rather than say a quid cheaper) is clearly predatory and not a simple case of "offering less for a lower price", i.e. offering the user not to pay for bus or Northern travel if they don't want it.
I wonder if it was not thought of at the time of letting the concession, and the cost of changing the contract to fix it would be too high.
An all Merseyrail day saver for £5.50 isn’t a rip off, its amazing value...
it’s just that for 5p more the all area Saveaway is even MORE amazing value!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't think it's a rip-off either, but it is clearly set at a predatory level to snipe extra revenue, a bit like TOCs setting their specific fares only a few pence cheaper than the interavailable fare (yes, you, Avanti). There is no value to the system of the fare existing, there would be if it was noticeably cheaper, say perhaps £1 cheaper, because then it would be offering the ability to pay less for less validity if you didn't need more.
Polarbear
Established Member
There's also an additional issue in that one cannot purchase Saveaways at the (few) unstaffed Merseyrail stations. This forces people travelling from those stations to buy the Daysaver.
As the unstaffed stations are in Chester West & Chester, you haven't even got the option to purchase Saveaways from PayPoint outlets either.
Used to be a pain for me when I lived in Chester, (nearest station, Bache).
As the unstaffed stations are in Chester West & Chester, you haven't even got the option to purchase Saveaways from PayPoint outlets either.
Used to be a pain for me when I lived in Chester, (nearest station, Bache).
Merseyrail Electrics ticket offices (i.e. all stations served by the third rail electrics except Chester and Liverpool Lime St main booking office) will only* sell on smartcards (and will issue the smartcard if needs be). Other railway ticket offices (i.e. Northern) will issue on CCST.
* "Are only meant to" - I suspect they technically could issue on CCST, so if you've got a friendly Merseyrail booking office clerk they might do it!
Am I ok to put that on my “please explain” then?
Someone on a forum said it was ok to issue it on a ticket, so I did!
Merseytravel, the local authority, the TOC, all want it issued on the MetroCard, so on the MetroCard it goes.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Am I ok to put that on my “please explain” then?
Someone on a forum said it was ok to issue it on a ticket, so I did!
Merseytravel, the local authority, the TOC, all want it issued on the MetroCard, so on the MetroCard it goes.
And that's doing your job properly which is of course what you should do
My point was that some may be less bothered about this, and I'd imagine the TIS would physically allow it. Sometimes a member of staff not quite doing their job properly is to a passenger's advantage - e.g. accepting a ticket on a non-Permitted route, issuing a non-entitled excess etc. I wasn't suggesting this should be done, just that it might be done in some cases.
Statto
Established Member
If Merseyrail are going to charge that price than scrap the 06.30 to 09.30 Monday to Friday restriction, or make the day saver £1-£1.50 cheaper instead.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
A peak time version, perhaps priced at the same as the highest Anytime Day Return for internal Merseyrail journeys, would be a very good thing, as Merseytravel don't offer that as a Saveaway. (Years ago there was an "All Day Saveaway" but there hasn't been for ages).
It took ages for TfL to do something similar - Anytime Day Travelcards are a very recent thing, last 20 years or so.
It took ages for TfL to do something similar - Anytime Day Travelcards are a very recent thing, last 20 years or so.
I'm not sure why the Saveaway is valid in some non Liverpool City region areas e.g Ellesmere Port, Bache and not valid in some Liverpool City region areas e.g. Widnes, Runcorn.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Because Merseytravel relates to all public transport in the former Merseyside Metropolitan County, plus Merseyrail Electrics (the TOC) which is a concession awarded by Merseytravel (hence validity on that TOC's whole network).
That probably needs to be resolved to bring Widnes and Runcorn in, but I'd imagine that will take time because there are a lot of legal issues to deal with.
You could also ask why is it valid to Chester on MR but not on TfW via South Parkway, as the journey time is about the same.
Worth mentioning they're only valid on Merseyrail beyond Hooton to Chester and Ellesmere Port, not on buses. The boundary for buses is Hooton Crossroads.
Allowing Saveaways in Cheshire on Merseyrail wasnt always the case either, they used to be valid to Hooton only. Sure it came in during the mid 2000s? Trio Plus passes were briefly allowed In this zone (zone G?) Rail only, but they no longer exist, however Merseytravel concession passes are valid.
Last time I checked you could also buy a Merseyrail Zone G day saver for use purely between Chester-Hooton-Ellesmere Port. They come up on the self service machines anyway.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The change came when the TOC stopped being a national franchise and became a concession awarded by Merseytravel. Putting in acceptance in the contract was probably not expensive in the scheme of things.
The Daysavers aren't just a revenue grab from Saveaways, they are also a replacement for off-peak day returns, so the more "granular" ones do have a useful role.
JBuchananGB
Established Member
I am still smarting from my first ever experience of Merseyrail's ticketing expertise in 2017 when my wife and I as visitors to the area asked for two off-peak day returns to Southport from Liverpool Central, with Senior Railcard discount, and were issued with two ANYTIME returns to Southport with Two Together discount. Now that I live in the area, if I have to go anywhere beyond Hall Road on Merseyrail between Southport and Hunts Cross, I request an off-peak day return to Halewood with Senior Railcard discount, which is cheaper than a Daysaver. I do not require the bus travel benefit of the Saveaway, but did once purchase a child Saveaway on a Walrus card for my granddaughter.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I have mixed views on the approach but do object to the lack of Railcard discounts on these tickets. However, he did sell you the cheapest tickets for your journey. Booking offices aren't required to check whether buying further and ending short is cheaper, as to require this would be a right can of worms.
If you want to do it for Liverpool-Southport, though, Meols Cop is the station you want.
JBuchananGB
Established Member
I should point out for those sharp witted people who might deduce that I am of an age which would entitle me to a Merseytravel pass, that I live in Lancashire 200 yards outside the Merseyside boundary, which is why I use a Senior Railcard and a Lancashire County Council issued ENCTS "Now Card".
Okay. I don't really see why the Merseyrail Electrics concession necessarily OBLIGED the increase in validity area (by rail).
And although I can appreciate some shuffling of paperwork is involved,it really doesn't sound so much of a task to incorporate Hough Green to Widnes and Liverpool South Parkway to Runcorn (with associated buses)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't suppose the PTE had to do it, but it was a worthwhile simplification to the ticketing situation. If the PTE put it in the concession documents then the TOC did have to do it (or submit a non-compliant bid).
A fair bit of shuffling of money would be needed, e.g. Council Tax funding.
But Halton Borough is already committed to and part of Liverpool City Region, who control the PTE,
Statto
Established Member
It's not amazing value for money though is it, when you can pay 5p more for a saveaway & get better coverage
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Unlike all other franchises in England, this is run as a "locally awarded concession" - which, at the time it was awarded, was suggested would allow the PTE (who awarded the contract) and it's councillors more control over the operator.
I've just had a look at the price for a Southport - Chester return £9.10 . So both tickets are good value but the Saveaway is better value.
In normal times you can use the Saveaway ticket on a Saturday on the river cruse for a single crossing from Pier Head to Seacombe or Woodside or the reverse. but you can not do the full cruse in one journey. I've just had a quick look on the website and it look like the Saturday cruises are cancelled at the moment due to Covid.
In normal times you can use your Saveaway 7 days a week on Mersey Ferries (after 0930 Mon-Fri) but you have to break your journey, you can’t do the full cruise without getting off en-route
Polarbear
Established Member
The only ferry services operating at the moment are peak hour shuttles between Woodside & Liverpool, Mon-Fri. Seacombe terminal is closed due to to refurbishment work which is due to be completed by summer 2021.
What’s to stop you staying on? Do they come round and kick you off when moored up?
If I remember correctly you have to show your Saveaway at the ferry ticket office to pick up a single journey boarding pass, so you wouldn't have a valid boarding pass for your second trip.
It should be pointed out that a cruise journey takes longer than a standard journey as it meanders around the river. Not sure if Gerry Marsden still features.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
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