Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Prime586]

What kind of sensor are we talking about?

According to this Modern Railways article on the GA FLIRTs, the sliding step uses an ultrasonic sensor. It mentions that the door drives and step access systems are supplied by IFE, Knorr-Bremse's door systems subsidiary. Specifically, it looks like the Class 777s are fitted with a version of their X4 Sliding Step.

That article actually mentions a possible failure condition that potentially seems to be similar to the issue is that's being seen with heavily-loaded 777s:
"One scenario to avoid is if the step comes out and gets under the platform edge, then the vehicle unloads and rises."

Thanks to Indian Railways, there is a PDF copy of the manual for IFE's Door Control Module (DCM) available (it's relating to a single leaf plug door installtion, but I expect the underlying mechanics and control scheme are similar, if not the same). The Step Module has it's own control module that supplies 3 inputs into the DCM - 'Step Closed', 'Step Brake Active' and 'Step Emergency Device Deployed' (this it to indicate if emergency manual deployment of the step has taken place).

The 'Step Closed' signal is used by the DCM as basically the last check in it's 'Door Closing' logic. Once the step has retracted, the signal is sent to the DCM which indicates the 'Door Closing' sequence has successfully completed and the DCM outputs a 'Door Closed & Locked' signal to the train's control system.

The 'Step Brake Active' signal is used in the 'Door Opening' logic. Once the Step Module detects it has deployed the step to within it's preset limit distance to the platform, it activates an electric brake on the jackscrew and outputs the signal. Once the DCM receives the signal that the brake is applied, it can can then start the rest of the 'Door Opening' sequence.

Table 4.3 on page 45 of the PDF describes logic controlling the 'Door Safety Loop' output to the train's control system. If the step is not closed, the train can't move (unless the individual step is electrically isolated from the cab, if the 777s have that option).

Section 5.7.2 on page 55 of the PDF describes the obstacle detection system for the Step Module.

 

[bahnause]

Thank you for the research. It seems to be a commercially available system, as used by many manufacturers in different variations. Pretty much 1:1 as some of our vehicles use it. I've had very few faults with the steps over the last few years, more often so with the doors. As long as the steps are not mechanically blocked, they can be unlocked, manually retracted and then locked again. It takes about 30 seconds plus the time it takes to get to the door. Normally, it is always the rearmost door with a malfunction...
Of course, it always depends on the rules who can and may lock doors out of use. In our case where most trains are DOO, it's a job for the driver.

 

[samrammstein]

From July 31st one WKI and one NBN diagram per day will be taken out of passenger use for 777 driver training.

https://www.merseyrail.org/journey-...ge-to-west-kirby-and-new-brighton-timetables/

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=ME

 

[DJH1971]

Mersey Railways 2.0 FB page has stated 777011, 777017 and battery unit 777150 are scheduled to arrive at Kirkdale next Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

From July 31st one WKI and one NBN diagram per day will be taken out of passenger use for 777 driver training.

https://www.merseyrail.org/journey-...ge-to-west-kirby-and-new-brighton-timetables/

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=ME

Aha! Wirral Line progress at last.

 

[TheSel]

Aha! Wirral Line progress at last.

If you consider running fewer services to be 'progress', then yes!

 

[Sam 76]

If you consider running fewer services to be 'progress', then yes!

It does mean 777s on the Wirral soon which is good given the increasing 507/508 withdrawals though It will just be a pain for passengers on those lines though for a few weeks which is unfortunate

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If you consider running fewer services to be 'progress', then yes!

I certainly do if it means we’re closer to a 777 operation rather than a knackered PEP one! Glad you agree

 

[karlbbb]

I certainly do if it means we’re closer to a 777 operation rather than a knackered PEP one! Glad you agree

Given the current reliability of the 777s on the Ormskirk line, be careful what you wish for. I'd been looking to their introduction for ages, but now they're here it's increasingly hard to know if the services are actually going to run or not.

 

[Herefordian]

I certainly do if it means we’re closer to a 777 operation rather than a knackered PEP one! Glad you agree

Merseyrail don't have any PEPs.

I don't think TheSel agrees with you, either.

 

[Sam 76]

Given the current reliability of the 777s on the Ormskirk line, be careful what you wish for. I'd been looking to their introduction for ages, but now they're here it's increasingly hard to know if the services are actually going to run or not.

I actually think they will do better on the Wirral oddly. As most problems seem to come from the doors these days. If they start on New Brighton and West Kirkby they are generally less crowded, meaning less chance of the doors freaking out when people are near them. In addition no long dwell times at central stations with the doors opening and closing all the time will probably help

 

[MattRat]

I actually think they will do better on the Wirral oddly. As most problems seem to come from the doors these days. If they start on New Brighton and West Kirkby they are generally less crowded, meaning less chance of the doors freaking out when people are near them. In addition no long dwell times at central stations with the doors opening and closing all the time will probably help

But they will have to contend with sea air, which should be interesting to watch play out....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don't think TheSel agrees with you, either.

Well spotted

 

[Sam 76]

Saturday 29 July

www.merseyrail.org

The need for 777s to enter in greater numbers gets ever bigger. Also wonder why the Kirkby shuttle can’t be a 777?

 

[MR-507508]

Saturday 29 July

www.merseyrail.org

The need for 777s to enter in greater numbers gets ever bigger. Also wonder why the Kirkby shuttle can’t be a 777?

It is the 777s which are causing the unit shortage today. All Ormskirk diagrams are worked by 507/508s and therefore no class 777s are working, not sure as to the reason why.
The previous cancellations on the New Brighton line have now been reinstated, leaving only the Kirkby shuttle service with no service as a result of no 777s working today.

 

[Sam 76]

It is the 777s which are causing the unit shortage today. All Ormskirk diagrams are worked by 507/508s and therefore no class 777s are working, not sure as to the reason why.
The previous cancellations on the New Brighton line have now been reinstated, leaving only the Kirkby shuttle service with no service as a result of no 777s working today.

How bizarre. Good to hear about New Brighton being reintroduced though. Perhaps it’s a fleet wide update for the 777s hopefully to further eliminate the annoying little faults

 

[karlbbb]

It is the 777s which are causing the unit shortage today. All Ormskirk diagrams are worked by 507/508s and therefore no class 777s are working, not sure as to the reason why.
The previous cancellations on the New Brighton line have now been reinstated, leaving only the Kirkby shuttle service with no service as a result of no 777s working today.

That’s very odd to not be running six 777s today. Is there even a hint of a reason for them not running?

 

[leomartin125]

Looking at RTT, it does state now that the Kirkby line is replacement buses all of next week too, so whatever is happening, it is certainly causing some issues. I would've thought that software upgrades would be done at weekends thus allowing normal train service to resume Mo-Fri and that is not the case now.

 

[lrailadventure]

Looking at RTT, it does state now that the Kirkby line is replacement buses all of next week too

Due to engineering works, trains on the Kirkby line are only running as far as Fazakerley at the moment on a 45 minute shuttle timetable (although obviously not today due to the lack of units).

 

[karlbbb]

Are we any the wiser about what has caused all the 777s to be pulled?

 

[ExRes]

Mersey Railways 2.0 FB page has stated 777011, 777017 and battery unit 777150 are scheduled to arrive at Kirkdale next Wednesday or Thursday.

RTT currently showing Wednesday 1333 6Q77 DB Cargo Fan to Walton Old Jct MSC Sdgs and 2256 7Q78 to Kirkdale CS

 

[childwallblues]

RTT currently showing Wednesday 1333 6Q77 DB Cargo Fan to Walton Old Jct MSC Sdgs and 2256 7Q78 to Kirkdale CS

Reports say that these are 777011/017/150.

 

[Sam 76]

Are we any the wiser about what has caused all the 777s to be pulled?

Have read there was a minor breaking issue on a unit. All but 2 have been cleared to enter service again

 

[karlbbb]

Have read there was a minor breaking issue on a unit. All but 2 have been cleared to enter service again

But what was broken?

I'm assuming there are some back out today as my usual morning train from Ormskirk went pop and was cancelled.

 

[ExRes]

But what was broken?

Now there's a question, was it a breaking issue or a braking issue?

 

[py_megapixel]

Now there's a question, was it a breaking issue or a braking issue?

I read it assuming it was a typo of "braking issue". A braking issue, I suppose, would also be a breaking issue, though not necessarily the other way round!

For the benefit of anyone using a screen reader: there is some confusion over whether the "breaking issue" is an issue related to brakes (i.e. the equipment used to stop the train) or just an issue that renders the unit broken.

 

[DJH1971]

Anything more regarding the delivery of the 2 777's this Wednesday/Thursday?

 

[Sam 76]

I read it assuming it was a typo of "braking issue". A braking issue, I suppose, would also be a breaking issue, though not necessarily the other way round!

For the benefit of anyone using a screen reader: there is some confusion over whether the "breaking issue" is an issue related to brakes (i.e. the equipment used to stop the train) or just an issue that renders the unit broken.

Apologies it was indeed a spelling error now corrected. I was referring to the breaks

 

[Skie]

The brakes broke which caused a break in 777 operation?

 

[Sam 76]

The brakes broke which caused a break in 777 operation?

Yes they were all taken in to be checked on Saturday and all but 2 are allowed into service