Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[507020]

We're only running x1 4 car set for the national, it's running an Aintree express so will only call
Liverpool Central - Moorfields - Aintree.

The return journey after the races will be Aintree - Moorfields - Liverpool Central.

So there won't really be too many issues regarding crouds, the only issues that may occur will be at Aintree.

And will the others be 8 car 777s or 6 car 507/508s and will this be on a 10 or a 7.5 minute frequency?

 

[D821]

What's the maximum number of passengers a 777 is meant to carry? I couldn't see anything on Wikipedia last time I looked.

 

[WibbleWobble]

The seats are uncomfortable. I know this is a personal opinion, but im generally not too fussy about seats especially on commuter stock. The current fleet hardly has comfy seats but these seem worse! People say it's OK because the majority of people only use the trains for short journeys - huge amounts use them for the full Chester to Liverpool journey too aswell as Southport.

Having sampled the 777 for the first time this week, I concur - those seats are rock hard. The only seats I have encountered that are less comfortable are Urban 90s!

 

[jamesst]

And will the others be 8 car 777s or 6 car 507/508s and will this be on a 10 or a 7.5 minute frequency?

16 507/508s booked as per usual to run as doubles. The 777 is only an extra to the usual 7.5 min service and even then will be reliant on spare crew to staff it. The extra services meaning that drivers will be a bit thin on the ground.

 

[507020]

16 507/508s booked as per usual to run as doubles. The 777 is only an extra to the usual 7.5 min service and even then will be reliant on spare crew to staff it. The extra services meaning that drivers will be a bit thin on the ground.

So are there going to be 8 diagrams with pairs of 507/508s running the 7.5 minute service made up of Liverpool Central - Ormskirk and Liverpool Central - Aintree services AND an extra single 777 running additionally to this?

So they can claim the 777s ran during the Grand National festival, while the bulk of the service was still provided by 507/508s?

Is there any chance of a 777 reaching Ormskirk in service earlier in the week?

 

[jamesst]

So are there going to be 8 diagrams with pairs of 507/508s running the 7.5 minute service made up of Liverpool Central - Ormskirk and Liverpool Central - Aintree services AND an extra single 777 running additionally to this?

So they can claim the 777s ran during the Grand National festival, while the bulk of the service was still provided by 507/508s?

Is there any chance of a 777 reaching Ormskirk in service earlier in the week?

Yep, 5 pairs of 6 cars on the whole Ormskirk route and 3 pairs on the Aintree shuttles.
I was told the 777 would be used in addition purely as a crowd buster, whether it runs in place of one of the Aintree shuttles remains to be seen.

And yeah, one of the Ormskirk diagrams should be booked (or at least partially booked) for a 777 Mon-Wed, no idea what one though sorry.

 

[Wezz]

So are there going to be 8 diagrams with pairs of 507/508s running the 7.5 minute service made up of Liverpool Central - Ormskirk and Liverpool Central - Aintree services AND an extra single 777 running additionally to this?

So they can claim the 777s ran during the Grand National festival, while the bulk of the service was still provided by 507/508s?

Is there any chance of a 777 reaching Ormskirk in service earlier in the week?

There should be a 777 running an LVC - OMS diagram tomorrow (Monday)

 

[507020]

Yep, 5 pairs of 6 cars on the whole Ormskirk route and 3 pairs on the Aintree shuttles.
I was told the 777 would be used in addition purely as a crowd buster, whether it runs in place of one of the Aintree shuttles remains to be seen.

And yeah, one of the Ormskirk diagrams should be booked (or at least partially booked) for a 777 Mon-Wed, no idea what one though sorry.

There should be a 777 running an LVC - OMS diagram tomorrow (Monday)

I have been advised that the first 777 is at 0716 from Liverpool Central to Ormskirk and 0801 from Ormskirk to Liverpool Central and will assume that unless it fails it will be every 75 minutes from those times until the end of service.

 

[Techniquest]

The question has to be then:

Which 50x has replaced it?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The question has to be then:

Which 50x has replaced it?

I mean there's nothing stopping the replacement unit being a 777, also no clue why it looks like the 777 was taken out of service.

 

[MR-507508]

The question has to be then:

Which 50x has replaced it?

508125 today

 

[Techniquest]

I mean there's nothing stopping the replacement unit being a 777, also no clue why it looks like the 777 was taken out of service.
View attachment 132695

Oh dear, I wasn't being serious with my post!

508125 today

I genuinely didn't think the 777 would be pulled from service so quick! Teething problems I'm guessing?

 

[Sam 76]

Only the following 777s are planned to be going to Ormskirk this week so substitution entirely to be expected

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's my point. On paper it's fine, so they'll do it. But in practice, you tell people they have to stand instead of sit, especially when drunk, you are going to have near enough a riot on your hands.

On a railway where platform lengths allow 120m trains, deliberately underordering new stock so you can ram passengers into 70 ish m trains because they do that on the Tube just shows sheer contempt for passengers. It's just CrossCountry all over.

They need more units to be able to run 6 car on all lines from about 0700-0930 and 1600-1900 and all day on Southports and West Kirbys in school holidays and on weekends. It's not like they're the only TOC to underorder - the LNR 319s were another example of this penny wise, pound foolish behaviour, but for Merseyrail it really is just silly.

 

[Alan508]

The 777 was booked to come out of service and go on to Kirkdale for 09:50, being replaced by a 507/8. It's the same tomorrow and Wednesday, not sure about Thursday though.

 

[Skie]

On a railway where platform lengths allow 120m trains, deliberately underordering new stock so you can ram passengers into 70 ish m trains because they do that on the Tube just shows sheer contempt for passengers. It's just CrossCountry all over.

It’s probably about money rather than contempt, given only one of those can actually be used to buy trains

The new fleet will replace the old one like for like but leave headroom to expand if the business case can be made and funding secured. Probably, with hindsight, seen as a canny decision given covid arrested the growth and may give them much more time before needing to increase capacity.

Though more trains also needs more stabling capacity as the existing facilities are almost full with just 14 additional units. They can expand Kirkdale on the old fast lines but that would still be expensive and mean less money (or contempt!) for trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s probably about money rather than contempt, given only one of those can actually be used to buy trains

The new fleet will replace the old one like for like

It doesn't, there are fewer units, which is partly to be dealt with by faster running and lower maintenance but partly includes reduction in operation of double units due to accepting more standees.

To be fair the current 50x fleet is too small anyway. The rot of too few 6 car services started when units were released to Connex during the utter nadir of the network, the MTL years, when the whole thing was grossly mismanaged into decline.

Though more trains also needs more stabling capacity as the existing facilities are almost full with just 14 additional units. They can expand Kirkdale on the old fast lines but that would still be expensive and mean less money (or contempt!) for trains.

Shouldn't have closed Birkenhead North and Hall Road. Some very stupid anti growth decisions on Merseyrail over the years.

 

[D821]

Shouldn't have closed Birkenhead North and Hall Road. Some very stupid anti growth decisions on Merseyrail over the years.

Birkenhead Central, you mean?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Birkenhead Central, you mean?

Sorry, yes.

 

[Skie]

It doesn't, there are fewer units, which is partly to be dealt with by faster running and lower maintenance but partly includes reduction in operation of double units due to accepting more standees.

Sorry, I should have said like for like in passenger capacity. Obviously the removal of extra peaks and some shortening has been problematic over the years, but as is the 777s aren’t a reduction just maintaining the existing capacity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, I should have said like for like in passenger capacity. Obviously the removal of extra peaks and some shortening has been problematic over the years, but as is the 777s aren’t a reduction just maintaining the existing capacity.

Reduced seated capacity I believe. When you don't have major infrastructure constraints (like e.g. T&W Metro does) swapping seats for standing isn't acceptable. Merseyrail has capacity for 120m trains at at least 5tph on all routes if they wanted; there being standees really isn't acceptable other than on the trains departing Liverpool around 1700-1730/arriving 0815-0845 when you'd fill a 6 car.

 

[D821]

Sorry, yes.

Merseytravel's 30 year plan in 2017 did list opening another depot is Birkenhead as an option, took it to mean Central.

There's still space to re-open some of the old sidings at Birkenhead North, though that wouldn't be idea if the storage issues are over the other side of the water.

 

[Wezz]

Oh dear, I wasn't being serious with my post!



I genuinely didn't think the 777 would be pulled from service so quick! Teething problems I'm guessing?

It was only booked to do the one return journey

 

[Techniquest]

It was only booked to do the one return journey

Ah OK, for some reason I was under the impression it was due out all day.

 

[Wezz]

Ah OK, for some reason I was under the impression it was due out all day.

It's booked to run the following for the next few days:

0716 from LVC
0804 from OMS
0846 from LVC

 

[Techniquest]

It's booked to run the following for the next few days:

0716 from LVC
0804 from OMS
0846 from LVC

Thanks Here's hoping it actually manages it then. I don't have much faith in a 777 managing even 3 short services a day!

 

[Sam 76]

Thanks Here's hoping it actually manages it then. I don't have much faith in a 777 managing even 3 short services a day!

Tbf to the 777s I think they have gone 4/5 service days without one being pulled now which is good going especially after the first few weeks

 

[Techniquest]

Tbf to the 777s I think they have gone 4/5 service days without one being pulled now which is good going especially after the first few weeks

I'm glad I'm sat down to read that

 

[prod_pep]

I'm glad I'm sat down to read that

Hopefully not on a rock hard 777 seat!

Tentative signs of improvement but still unconvincing. One reportedly had traction equipment issues on Good Friday evening and there was at least one curtailment at Sandhills today, albeit I assume the same unit stayed out.

 

[Sam 76]

I'm glad I'm sat down to read that

To be honest when I thought about it I was surprised to be honest