Merseyrail Byelaw prosecution

[DGLUFC]

Anyone ever been accused of breaking 'Merseyrail byelaw'?

Had my feet resting on the seat a few weeks back (clean shoes, no dirt left on the seat etc.) and some bloke working for them came over and asked me to remove my feet. Having done so he proceeded to tell me it's a breach of merseyrail byelaw and that he needed to take my details.

Asked him what it was about and if I was getting fined and his reply was something along the lines of 'nah you won't get fined, it sounds more serious than it actually is'..

Had a letter through the post today saying they're prepared to prosecute me unless I pay an early settlement of £50 within 17 days.

Anyone ever had this and know where I stand? £50 isn't alot of money but if it's something that they have no right to then I'd rather not pay

 

[AlterEgo]

Which MR Bylaw are you accused of breaking, according to the letter?

It is illegal for you to have your feet on the seats, but let's check technicalities first.

 

[OnlyM]

Anyone ever been accused of breaking 'Merseyrail byelaw'?

Had my feet resting on the seat a few weeks back (clean shoes, no dirt left on the seat etc.) and some bloke working for them came over and asked me to remove my feet. Having done so he proceeded to tell me it's a breach of merseyrail byelaw and that he needed to take my details.

Asked him what it was about and if I was getting fined and his reply was something along the lines of 'nah you won't get fined, it sounds more serious than it actually is'..

Had a letter through the post today saying they're prepared to prosecute me unless I pay an early settlement of £50 within 17 days.

Anyone ever had this and know where I stand? £50 isn't alot of money but if it's something that they have no right to then I'd rather not pay

All merseyrail's bylaws can be found here;
https://www.merseyrail.org/media/205064/Final Merseyrail Byelaws.PDF

Pay the £50 and don't do it again. Or end up in court. It is an offence to place your feet on any part of the seat or frame.

 

[gray1404]

Interestingly enough this only applies to Merseyrail and doesn't apply to other TOCs (correct me if I'm wrong please).

The best advise here would be to pay the £50 before the date stated in the letter and just make sure that you don't do it again.

 

[najaB]

Interestingly enough this only applies to Merseyrail and doesn't apply to other TOCs (correct me if I'm wrong please).

Merseyrail byelaws only apply to Merseyrail, yes.

 

[Camden]

Anyone ever been accused of breaking 'Merseyrail byelaw'?

Had my feet resting on the seat a few weeks back (clean shoes, no dirt left on the seat etc.)

How clean, exactly, do you think your shoes really are after walking around?

Even if you think they look spotless, unless you've been walking round wearing plastic bags over them, the soles will be dirtier than an un-flushed toilet. And then there is the additional wear to the seat covers, which regular passengers and local taxpayers have to fund.

Next time you're in Liverpool perhaps look around you and note that no one else seems to have any trouble keeping their feet on the floor. When in Rome. You might also note that, compared to other places I could mention, the years old seats are still not in bad nick.

Cough up, and consider yourself lucky you're being given the opportunity.

 

[gray1404]

Merseyrail byelaws only apply to Merseyrail, yes.

I guess what I was asking is: does any other TOC have such an enforcement policy to deal with feet on seats and some of the other issues that the Merseyrail byelaws cover? In other words, is it possible to get away with such things on other TOCs.

 

[najaB]

I guess what I was asking is: does any other TOC have such an enforcement policy to deal with feet on seats and some of the other issues that the Merseyrail byelaws cover?

It would fall under Railway Byelaw 6 Unacceptable behaviour:

(4) No person shall soil any part of the railway.

Though I suppose that you could only prosecute where there was evidence of the seat being soiled. Speaking more generally,

(8) No person shall molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway.

can be cast wide as a net to catch a lot of different things.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Merseyrail have a good track record of successful prosecutions of this offence against passengers who put their feet on the seats.
And they certainly are entitled to encforce their Byelaws, which is why you are being advised to pay the proposed settlement promptly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone ever had this and know where I stand? £50 isn't alot of money but if it's something that they have no right to then I'd rather not pay

Cough up, and don't put your feet on the seat. It is a filthy habit and is completely unnecessary.

 

[Statto]

Anyone ever been accused of breaking 'Merseyrail byelaw'?

Had my feet resting on the seat a few weeks back (clean shoes, no dirt left on the seat etc.) and some bloke working for them came over and asked me to remove my feet. Having done so he proceeded to tell me it's a breach of merseyrail byelaw and that he needed to take my details.

Asked him what it was about and if I was getting fined and his reply was something along the lines of 'nah you won't get fined, it sounds more serious than it actually is'..

Had a letter through the post today saying they're prepared to prosecute me unless I pay an early settlement of £50 within 17 days.

Anyone ever had this and know where I stand? £50 isn't alot of money but if it's something that they have no right to then I'd rather not pay

How clean your feet/shoes are is irrelevant, if you have your feet on the seats & get caught it's still a bye law offence, regardless how clean they are, just have to pay the £50.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think so yes, pour encourager les autres, perhaps.

As the enforcement officers have body cameras and the trains have CCTV most likely there is plenty of evidence.

 

[Polarbear]

Anyone ever had this and know where I stand? £50 isn't alot of money but if it's something that they have no right to then I'd rather not pay

With respect to the OP, they do have the right to do this, as it's clearly stated in their by-laws. Additionally, as others have already said, there are large posters on every train too.

Because of the by-law, you do not have the right to put your feet on the seats.

You may think your shoes were clean, but ask yourself where you had walked before boarding the train. Can you be 100% assured that you didn't step in any mud, dog muck, dropped food/drink, cigarette ends, chewing gum...(the list goes on). That's why you aren't entitled to put feet on seats, and why, if you do and are caught, the operator can claim from you for something towards the cost of cleaning your mess.

 

[bb21]

Or go to court and pay around 5 times the amount. That is a risk you may or may not wish to take. It could be that Merseyrail have no or little evidence to produce that can prove you had your feet on the seat and you might get away with it. However, that is a risk you would have to be willing to take. In short, given by your own omission you did have your seat on the seat I would pay the £50 today and then post back here saying you have paid it and learnt your lesson. Let that be the end of it.

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Pay it and learn your lesson, then move on.

 

[Paul Kelly]

How clean your feet/shoes are is irrelevant, if you have your feet on the seats & get caught it's still a bye law offence, regardless how clean they are, just have to pay the £50.

Isn't the relevant byelaw still "No person shall soil any part of the railway."? So if the shoes were really clinically clean (e.g. never been worn before) then that might be relevant?