Merseyrail - Also having reliability problems recently

[Jamesrob637]

The new trains will be in service during the autumn according to the 777 thread.

 

[Taunton]

We lived in the Wirral in the 1960s-70s (West Kirby line), family were still there long afterwards, and occasionally when in Liverpool I make the odd trip out just to see old places.

In all that time living there I never, not once, had any delay at all with the previous 1938-built Class 503, and never experienced any fault. They always turned up to the minute. This in contrast to how it is nowadays. In fact the last time I went along there, probably early 2020, just before lockdown, we were badly delayed outwards because the crossings at Leasowe and Hoylake had both failed, seemingly some long line signalling issue, and then on the return the train was unexpectedly terminated short at Birkenhead North with a fault. From occasional comments through the years the rot seemed to set in around 1980 when the 507s came along to replace these old, perfectly serviceable units.

If there was any event, fine summer Sunday for West Kirby beach, week before Christmas shopping traffic to Liverpool, etc, daytime trains were just extended from three to six cars without issue.

Makes you wonder how they managed it.

 

[MattRat]

We lived in the Wirral in the 1960s-70s (West Kirby line), family were still there long afterwards, and occasionally when in Liverpool I make the odd trip out just to see old places.

In all that time living there I never, not once, had any delay at all with the previous 1938-built Class 503, and never experienced any fault. They always turned up to the minute. This in contrast to how it is nowadays. In fact the last time I went along there, probably early 2020, just before lockdown, we were badly delayed outwards because the crossings at Leasowe and Hoylake had both failed, seemingly some long line signalling issue, and then on the return the train was unexpectedly terminated short at Birkenhead North with a fault. From occasional comments through the years the rot seemed to set in around 1980 when the 507s came along to replace these old, perfectly serviceable units.

If there was any event, fine summer Sunday for West Kirby beach, week before Christmas shopping traffic to Liverpool, etc, daytime trains were just extended from three to six cars without issue.

Makes you wonder how they managed it.

You'd be surprised how much of a beating a 507/508 can take. When it gets too much for them, I don't blame the train.

 

[Purple Train]

In answer to questions about the retractable step, on the 745s it takes around 3 seconds to deploy, after which the doors open, so I'd imagine it would be roughly the same on the 777s.
Quick question about the 777s - will they have the same door system as the 507/508 units, whereby all the doors are opened at each stop by a member of staff, rather than passengers activating individual door commands?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In answer to questions about the retractable step, on the 745s it takes around 3 seconds to deploy, after which the doors open, so I'd imagine it would be roughly the same on the 777s.
Quick question about the 777s - will they have the same door system as the 507/508 units, whereby all the doors are opened at each stop by a member of staff, rather than passengers activating individual door commands?

The plan is for the driver to release and the guard to act as a kind of dispatcher for a DOO dispatch. It's broadly similar to the Southern OBS but they are considered safety critical and so a train can't run without one.

If you mean "will there be a passenger open button" I believe there will, opening all doors is an issue with an air conditioned train.

 

[Purple Train]

The plan is for the driver to release and the guard to act as a kind of dispatcher for a DOO dispatch. It's broadly similar to the Southern OBS but they are considered safety critical and so a train can't run without one.

If you mean "will there be a passenger open button" I believe there will, opening all doors is an issue with an air conditioned train.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[setdown]

The plan is for the driver to release and the guard to act as a kind of dispatcher for a DOO dispatch. It's broadly similar to the Southern OBS but they are considered safety critical and so a train can't run without one.

If you mean "will there be a passenger open button" I believe there will, opening all doors is an issue with an air conditioned train.

Always wondered why the Metrolink method wasn’t copied in more places, press the button before arriving and the door will automatically open at the next stop as soon as it’s unlocked. Probably adds up to a bit of time saved over a day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Always wondered why the Metrolink method wasn’t copied in more places, press the button before arriving and the door will automatically open at the next stop as soon as it’s unlocked. Probably adds up to a bit of time saved over a day.

It's common in Germany etc, but the fear here is of people fallng out if a door opens unexpectedly.

 

[Kite159]

If you mean "will there be a passenger open button" I believe there will, opening all doors is an issue with an air conditioned train.

Not an issue on the Thameslink 700s between London Bridge & St Pancras or the Elizabeth Line 345s on the core section. As all the doors open even though the trains have AC

 

[XAM2175]

Not an issue on the Thameslink 700s between London Bridge & St Pancras or the Elizabeth Line 345s on the core section. As all the doors open even though the trains have AC

The "issue" is that it's inefficient to release all the conditioned air into the outside world at every stop. As you might be able to appreciate, and as is the case with both your examples, sometimes this inefficiency is tolerated if it is outweighed by advantages in handling expected passenger flows.

Additionally, since trains on the Elizabeth line's core section are opening their doors directly into enclosed stations that also have air-conditioning, it's even less of a problem to begin with!

 

[Skie]

777s will open all doors on the underground sections. It’s only above ground that it’s release only.

 

[eastend43]

Merseyrail have also announced that Chester trains will no longer stop at Green Lane or Bromborough Rake. Passengers have been advised to board Ellesmere Port trains and change at Hooton or use an 'adjacent' station.

On Sunday, consecutive Ellesmere Port services were cancelled - the 1826 and 1856 from Moorfields. At Lime Street (where I was waiting for any train stopping at Rock Ferry), passengers for Ellesmere Port were advised to get a Chester train to Hooton and change there. The Chester train I got on followed the timetable and skipped Green Lane and Bromborough Rake as did other Chester ones at that time leaving those stations with a 90-minute gap in the timetable. Should or could the Chester trains have stopped at Green Lane and/or Bromborough Rake under these circumstances?

Passengers needing Green Lane possibly could have continued to Rock Ferry and got the first train back, but it looked like there was also disruption from Ellesmere Port so that may not have worked. It was also a Sunday evening so not too busy, but there did seem to be a lack of information on what to do if you wanted Green Lane or Bromborough Rake.

I did notice station staff at Lime Street tell a family who wanted to go to Ellesmere Port to get on the next one going to Chester and change at Hooton. I'm not sure they completely understood as they got on the West Kirby train which was the "next one" that arrived at the station and didn't seem to notice they were heading in the wrong direction in time to get off between Lime Street and Hamilton Square to get on the Chester train I was on.

 

[Kite159]

777s will open all doors on the underground sections. It’s only above ground that it’s release only.

Hope Merseyrail will advertise that passengers will need to press the buttons to open the doors rather than the doors automatically opening. To reduce confusion when someone stands by the door waiting for it to open.

 

[jamesst]

On Sunday, consecutive Ellesmere Port services were cancelled - the 1826 and 1856 from Moorfields. At Lime Street (where I was waiting for any train stopping at Rock Ferry), passengers for Ellesmere Port were advised to get a Chester train to Hooton and change there. The Chester train I got on followed the timetable and skipped Green Lane and Bromborough Rake as did other Chester ones at that time leaving those stations with a 90-minute gap in the timetable. Should or could the Chester trains have stopped at Green Lane and/or Bromborough Rake under these circumstances?

Passengers needing Green Lane possibly could have continued to Rock Ferry and got the first train back, but it looked like there was also disruption from Ellesmere Port so that may not have worked. It was also a Sunday evening so not too busy, but there did seem to be a lack of information on what to do if you wanted Green Lane or Bromborough Rake.

I did notice station staff at Lime Street tell a family who wanted to go to Ellesmere Port to get on the next one going to Chester and change at Hooton. I'm not sure they completely understood as they got on the West Kirby train which was the "next one" that arrived at the station and didn't seem to notice they were heading in the wrong direction in time to get off between Lime Street and Hamilton Square to get on the Chester train I was on.

Ideally one of the Chester services should of stopped instead. Control would ask the signaller to give the driver a stop order for thoese stations, it sounds like that never happened.

 

[MattRat]

Ideally one of the Chester services should of stopped instead. Control would ask the signaller to give the driver a stop order for thoese stations, it sounds like that never happened.

Maybe the Chester service was running late too?

 

[Bikeman78]

Maybe the Chester service was running late too?

Nope, 1841 from Moorfields one late or on time, 1911 on time and actually departed Brombrough early having skipped Bromborough Rake and waited time nearly two minutes at Eastham Rake. The whole skipping stations thing is getting rather silly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nope, 1841 from Moorfields one late or on time, 1911 on time and actually departed Brombrough early having skipped Bromborough Rake and waited time nearly two minutes at Eastham Rake. The whole skipping stations thing is getting rather silly.

They would be better dropping back to 2tph to Chester but all 6 car than persisting with this nonsense.

 

[L401CJF]

They would be better dropping back to 2tph to Chester but all 6 car than persisting with this nonsense.

Or even every 20mins would surely give a bit more recovery time at Chester without requiring an extra unit..

 

[Bikeman78]

Or even every 20mins would surely give a bit more recovery time at Chester without requiring an extra unit..

They would need five units to run a train every 20 minutes compared with six units now. They would have just over 10 minutes in Chester.