Merseyrail 777 introduction

[Ellis101]

Maybe it will never go back to Southport - Hunts Cross and it will remain as Hunts Cross - Ormskirk. The stations between Central & Hunts Cross will have to make do with only a half hourly service in the evenings like most of the other lines on merseyrail.

The chippy at St Michael's will just have to learn to cope

There’s a lot more than just a chippy at St Michael’s and Sefton Park regularly hosts concerts.

 

[baldyman26]

I think they just don’t have enough trains, that’s evident by how many have weeds growing around them at Kirkdale.
It’s easier to spin on safety grounds than broken “new” trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

There’s a lot more than just a chippy at St Michael’s and Sefton Park regularly hosts concerts.

Apart from South Parkway though (and Baltic eventually) I fail to see anything between Central and Hunts Cross that justifies 4tph over the Ormskirk line itself. It is not a super-busy part of the network.

 

[Djgr]

Apart from South Parkway though (and Baltic eventually) I fail to see anything between Central and Hunts Cross that justifies 4tph over the Ormskirk line itself. It is not a super-busy part of the network.

The evening frequency doesn't kick in until around 2030, which is quite late. This doesn't preclude the use of the train. It's just not turn up and go.

I'm sure Chester could also make a case for a better evening service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The evening frequency doesn't kick in until around 2030, which is quite late. This doesn't preclude the use of the train. It's just not turn up and go.

4tph isn't literally turn up and go anyway. Given that you have to remember one number and be able to add 15, 30 or 45 to it (or quickly look on your phone) I'd imagine most people would use a timetable in some form anyway.

14 minutes is quite a long time to stand around when most journeys are well under half an hour.

 

[Ellis101]

4tph isn't literally turn up and go anyway. Given that you have to remember one number and be able to add 15, 30 or 45 to it (or quickly look on your phone) I'd imagine most people would use a timetable in some form anyway.

14 minutes is quite a long time to stand around when most journeys are well under half an hour.

15 minutes to Liverpool Central from Liverpool South Parkway vs 45 minutes on the bus (if traffic is good)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 18:08 ==

Apart from South Parkway though (and Baltic eventually) I fail to see anything between Central and Hunts Cross that justifies 4tph over the Ormskirk line itself. It is not a super-busy part of the network.

I'm not asking for over 4tph its not viable the infrastructure isn't there, its just seeing passenger numbers fall across much of the hunts cross branch is pretty sad very obviously due to the Cressington shenanigans resulting in 2tph of an evening after we spent so much money on new trains.

 

[Djgr]

4tph isn't literally turn up and go anyway. Given that you have to remember one number and be able to add 15, 30 or 45 to it (or quickly look on your phone) I'd imagine most people would use a timetable in some form anyway.

14 minutes is quite a long time to stand around when most journeys are well under half an hour.

I think 15 minutes is the outer limit for turn up and go! but yes it all becomes a bit less of an issue when a live departures app is employed.

 

[baldyman26]

So does cressington really need 4 tph, the only reason it’s a thing is because idiot councillors were trying to make a name for themselves. According to an internet search st Michael’s had 1 million passengers in 24/25 with Aigburth and cressington having half that. Now if you narrowed that down to after 8pm, I’m pretty sure Aigburth and cressington are minimal and could justify a 30 min 4 car service.
The issue is people and their entitlement, and councillors spreading false information (the closing of Cressington) to keep them relevant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So does cressington really need 4 tph, the only reason it’s a thing is because idiot councillors were trying to make a name for themselves. According to an internet search st Michael’s had 1 million passengers in 24/25 with Aigburth and cressington having half that. Now if you narrowed that down to after 8pm, I’m pretty sure Aigburth and cressington are minimal and could justify a 30 min 4 car service.

Unless you run a very messy timetable you can't just skip stop Cressington as that doesn't solve your train length problem.

It's *either* the Ormskirks (4 car) *or* the Southports (8 car), not a bit of both.

The actual solution is for Stadler to get their finger out and fix the ASDO. ASDO is not hard, various forms of it are in use throughout the network.

 

[baldyman26]

Don’t disagree, but Stadler’s track record on these trains is pretty rubbish. How their reputation is still intact is beyond me, but suppose it’s not just their reputation. They’ve clearly been protected when the big finger of blame is being pointed.

 

[777142]

It's *either* the Ormskirks (4 car) *or* the Southports (8 car), not a bit of both.

This actually reminds me of one of the early images of what Baltic would look like: the departure boards shown services on the same platform to Southport and Ormskirk. If this is the case there are two possibilities:
1. They actually planned to have alternating services from Hunts Cross go towards Southport or Ormskirk. Sounds great in theory (there are definitely people who go beyond Sandhills from the Hunts Cross branch) but I think it means you end up with a 10/20 or at best a 12/18 frequency somewhere. Obviously that means alternating ex-Southport and ex-Ormskirks terminate at Central, but it does give the advantage that if Ormskirk doesn’t warrant the 4tph in the evening you can cut the LVC terminators and keep 4tph Liverpool to Hunts Cross.
2. They extend some services terminating at LVC to LVB. This is probably more likely. In an ideal world they’d add one or two bays at LVB so they can turn the trains there and still have capacity for possibly a 5 or 6tph upgrade for the entire Northern Line later, but that’s definitely not going to happen, nor do they have the trains for it.

I don’t think the South Parkway argument is strong enough at the moment for warranting 4tph. There are a lot of people who use trains out of Lime Street to get there and thats normally enough (there are 7tph in the week between 21:00 and 22:00 for Liverpool Stations to South Parkway). When the new airport “rapid transit” starts it might be a different story. Nor are the intermediate stations particularly well-used compared to Headbolt Lane and Kirkby, for example. I think 3tph everywhere on the Northern Line for the evening (I’m not convinced for the Wirral - a lot of stations get double service anyway) would be a sensible change at least.

Cressington is really not a Capenhurst situation though in terms of its service. Stations like Hightown or Aughton Park are less deserving of 4tph. Getting Cressington to the same service as other stations on the line should be a higher priority than trying to increase evening service at the moment in my opinion. As should be improving the Sunday frequency in the daytime.

 

[urbophile]

As a frequent user of Cressington I am naturally miffed when our station has to put up with a poorer service. But I appreciate that compared to most local stations nationwide we get a good deal.

The Hunts Cross branch as a whole, though, deserves an all-day frequent service. Leaving aside South Parkway, St Michael's is very well used, and the all-hours popularity of Lark Lane, let alone events in Sefton Park, means that it really deserves a metro frequency throughout the day. Baltic, when/if it finally materialises, even more so: no-one is going to hang around for half an hour when they can get a bus within a couple of minutes or walk into/from town in twenty minutes.

Unlike north of Moorfields on the Northern Line, or the Birkenhead end of the Wirral, those stations are not served by multiple services and hence get a less frequent service than most other stations the same distance from the city centre. So either there needs to be turn-back provision at St Michaels, or the frequency through to Parkway (at least) should be doubled.

 

[Ellis101]

As a frequent user of Cressington I am naturally miffed when our station has to put up with a poorer service. But I appreciate that compared to most local stations nationwide we get a good deal.

The Hunts Cross branch as a whole, though, deserves an all-day frequent service. Leaving aside South Parkway, St Michael's is very well used, and the all-hours popularity of Lark Lane, let alone events in Sefton Park, means that it really deserves a metro frequency throughout the day. Baltic, when/if it finally materialises, even more so: no-one is going to hang around for half an hour when they can get a bus within a couple of minutes or walk into/from town in twenty minutes.

Unlike north of Moorfields on the Northern Line, or the Birkenhead end of the Wirral, those stations are not served by multiple services and hence get a less frequent service than most other stations the same distance from the city centre. So either there needs to be turn-back provision at St Michaels, or the frequency through to Parkway (at least) should be doubled.

It's not even the frequency being doubled its going back to what it always was since 2006!

 

[TheSel]

It's not even the frequency being doubled its going back to what it always was since 2006!

But, to be fair, the current frequency is infinitely better than it was in 1976.