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Mersey Ports Masterplan

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OxtedL

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Blimey, you couldn't be more reluctant to take a risk if you were transport minister! :D

I take your point, I guess I'm in a hopelessly optimistic mood today...
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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I lived within sight of the connexion to the docks (known as the Slopes Branch) and the only movement I ever saw on this was a light LMS 3F 0-6-0T in about 1961! It would be feasible to provide access via the old Bidston Dock bulk terminal (the dock was filled in years ago) & there's even plenty of space for a yard but I think the "existing" link via Docks North Junction would be sufficient.

I saw your mention of a LMS 3F 0-6-0T working there in 1961. Did any ex-L & Y 0-4-0ST ever work over the dock lines in those days with a spark arrester fitted over the chimney?
 

The Crab

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Not that I know of. Similarly I don't know if any of the older GWR 0-6-0PT were so fitted. Latter day BR 0-4-0Ts were of the LMS/Kitson variety, again not arrestor fitted. None of the MDHB shunters were fitted as far as I know.
 

pablo

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Risk? What risks are you talking about? All I see is certainties, possibilities and sometime never. This report is all about Peel jigging up their assets. They've been banging on for years with various 'port' proposals and getting not very far. If they were to have their way, they would have a stranglehold on transport in the Mersey basin. It's about overcoming the indifference and inertia of the LAs and other 'agencies'.

On a practical level, trans-shippment for 20 or 30 miles up the MSC makes no great contribution except it puts the boxes through Peel's hands using their under-utilised facilities. It's an underlying thread you can read throughout the report; they want to garner the up and down value as well. Improvement of D B Rd achieves the required result so much easier.

The vision it creates for me is a rabbit warren of transport, all contolled by Peel. Ha; the MSC was built in the first place to overcome Liverpool's monopoly of the Manchester traffic. How ironic! There's other things going on around there apart from Peel's aspirations. That's why I call it a blockbuster and it won't get very far.

Maybe I should be transport minster. I could certainly do with the exes. On the other hand, Merseytravel looks like a good number. Less travelling t'boot.
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Thinking about it more, FWIW, the best thing Peel could do is fill the canal in, at least east of Runcorn. It's cost far more than it's worth in bridges, tolls and general inconvenience ever since it was built. It's one of those items of infrastructure, if the parties had acted reasonably in the first place, would have been unnecessary and the capital could have been deployed elsewhere.:D
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Maybe I should be transport minster. I could certainly do with the exes. On the other hand, Merseytravel looks like a good number. Less travelling t'boot.

Thinking about it more, FWIW, the best thing Peel could do is fill the canal in, at least east of Runcorn. It's cost far more than it's worth in bridges, tolls and general inconvenience ever since it was built.

The advantage of Railforums UK is that it allows comment to be made by forum members with their own particular point of view. It can shield the rest of us from the more outrageous suppositions that are posted from time to time.

As you have made your view known, I will make mine and say that it is most fortunate that you will never obtain your aspirational status as Transport Minister, having seen your views on this project.
 

kylemore

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Firstly, it is providing a commercial reason for the use of the Manchester Ship Canal to transport items such as this along the sections to the new inland ports. Secondly, every such container not sent by road, is good for the environment. It is less traffic on the road system.

I do not doubt the Rotterdam barge traffic is a good use for the waterway systems that exist there, but that is a part of the geographical context of the area, that has been used to facilitate such traffic. It does not mean that a specially constructed waterway that is the Manchester Ship Canal cannot fulfil the same function, albeit in a shorter distance.

Still think that 30 miles is far too short a distance for this to be economic. Think about it, say the box is bound for a warehouse 10 miles from Salford, when it arrives at Liverpool it could be on a trailer and at it's destination before the barge is loaded and ready to sail for Salford, where the box would have to be loaded onto a trailer anyway for final delivery. That would cost at least 24 hours - time is an important factor too.
What could be competitive though (just maybe) are feeder container ship services from Salford (similar to those that operate from the Clyde) to say Southhampton, Tilbury or even Rotterdam competing with Freightliner!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Still think that 30 miles is far too short a distance for this to be economic. Think about it, say the box is bound for a warehouse 10 miles from Salford, when it arrives at Liverpool it could be on a trailer and at it's destination before the barge is loaded and ready to sail for Salford, where the box would have to be loaded onto a trailer anyway for final delivery. That would cost at least 24 hours - time is an important factor too.

I was looking at the environmental issues when considerng every container sent by barge would be one less "heavy load" lorry journey by road, which is being examined on a national basis.

A "road to rail" example that will achieve this, is that Lafarge Cement has been given a £130,000 freight grant to remove 3,500 lorry journeys off the roads and onto rail. The Scottish Government grant will used to improve facilities at four sites, enabling it to distribute bagged cement from the site at Dunbar to the three other sites at Uddingston, Aberdeen and Inverness. This is a four year committment to rail by Lafarge Cement and the new system is due to commence this summer.
 
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