Merits of Lichfield to Burton electrification

[AlastairFraser]

Service patterns, freight etc

 

[DM352]

I would say Lichfield Derby if MML wires get there.

A mid term interim could be a class 755 type unit limited stop from Brum to Derby, or Leicester via an Ivanhoe reinstatement. Almost said class 769 but has been a challenge in diesel mode.

They may need to sort out Wychnor from the 1980s BR singling and 15mph crossover.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I’m not convinced there’d be much passenger demand. Burton passengers will always find it quicker to get to Birmingham via Tamworth than an all-shacks Cross-City. You might get a handful of Lichfield passengers heading north via a change at Burton, I guess - but even then, it'll only be a marginal improvement over changing onto a northbound CrossCountry at Tamworth.

 

[The Planner]

No benefit for freight, less than 10 trains a day use it normally and would need much wider electrification. Would need more 730s as well, especially if the Cross City goes back to 6tph in the future. Burton could cope with this or the Ivanhoe, not convinced about both without some changes.

 

[Snow1964]

Does appear to be in updated (post Covid) West Midlands strategy including a proposed new station at Alrewas (see page 73, 74)

https://wmre.org.uk/media/aryjxnga/wmre-investment-strategy-and-summary-final.pdf

 

[Meerkat]

Would it mean replacing the single lead junction, and is there capacity across the junction and northward?
Plenty of space for a central bay at Burton to reduce crossing moves.

 

[The Planner]

Would it mean replacing the single lead junction, and is there capacity across the junction and northward?
Plenty of space for a central bay at Burton to reduce crossing moves.

Depends if you can't timetable your way around it, or it becomes a performance risk. Sods law normally means that two trains will appear in a timetable at the same time though.

 

[option]

I’m not convinced there’d be much passenger demand. Burton passengers will always find it quicker to get to Birmingham via Tamworth than an all-shacks Cross-City. You might get a handful of Lichfield passengers heading north via a change at Burton, I guess - but even then, it'll only be a marginal improvement over changing onto a northbound CrossCountry at Tamworth.

Also, that would only be Lichfield passengers heading north-east. Who could easily do Lichfield TV to Tamworth & change.


I also don't see Cross City services getting extended to Burton, its too far away with not enough population on the way.
BNS to Lichfield TV is 19miles, Redditch is 16, Bromsgrove 15, so its pretty balanced.
Burton adds 10miles each way, & has a population 23000 less than Bromsgrove.
(To put that distance in proportion, Tyseley - Smethwick Galton Bridge is 3miles less & would have a much greater impact)

 

[AlastairFraser]

I’m not convinced there’d be much passenger demand. Burton passengers will always find it quicker to get to Birmingham via Tamworth than an all-shacks Cross-City. You might get a handful of Lichfield passengers heading north via a change at Burton, I guess - but even then, it'll only be a marginal improvement over changing onto a northbound CrossCountry at Tamworth.

But those XC trains are overcrowded and introducing a more frequent WMT service into Burton would make it easier to accomodate more passengers on the XC using cheap Advances.

 

[The Planner]

But those XC trains are overcrowded and introducing a more frequent WMT service into Burton would make it easier to accomodate more passengers on the XC using cheap Advances.

Only if time isnt an issue for them, its 37 minutes from Lichfield to New St. Its 34 from Burton on a XC. Lichfield to Burton is going to be 15 minutes on top so nearly 20 minutes longer.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Only if time isnt an issue for them, its 37 minutes from Lichfield to New St. Its 34 from Burton on a XC. Lichfield to Burton is going to be 15 minutes on top so nearly 20 minutes longer.

Eh this works perfectly well with Northern vs TPE on Preston - Man, so I don't see why it wouldn't be successful here.
It also helps reduce XC overcrowding and possibly streamline London connections with the additional interchange at LTV, instead of London passengers going to Tamworth.

 

[The Planner]

Eh this works perfectly well with Northern vs TPE on Preston - Man, so I don't see why it wouldn't be successful here.
It also helps reduce XC overcrowding and possibly streamline London connections with the additional interchange at LTV, instead of London passengers going to Tamworth.

I didnt say it wouldnt work, I said it wouldn't be an option to those that still want the quickest option

 

[AlastairFraser]

I didnt say it wouldnt work, I said it wouldn't be an option to those that still want the quickest option

Oh yeah, I know. It all depends on how many commuters want a cheaper but slower option with a better chance of a seat in from Burton.

 

[The Planner]

Oh yeah, I know. It all depends on how many commuters want a cheaper but slower option with a better chance of a seat in from Burton.

It also falls apart if XC got more rolling stock. The overcrowding issue goes away.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It also falls apart if XC got more rolling stock. The overcrowding issue goes away.

Well that could be said to be pie in the sky

 

[The Planner]

Well that could be said to be pie in the sky

7 Avanti 221s is a start.

 

[AlastairFraser]

7 Avanti 221s is a start.

Is that what was announced today?

 

[zwk500]

It would only ever be done as part of an add-on if the route via Tamworth is being done, or if it's about the last island remaining between Birmingham and Yorkshire. If the MML electrification continues (big IF in the current climate), and then Sheffield-Doncaster and Swinton-South Kirkby Junction were also wired, then a Birmingham-Derby + Lichfield tuck-in might be viable. But even that would need other things like bi-modes for XC (or a cull of the XC extensions).

 

[Sniffingmoose]

There is good demand Burton to Lichfield, Midland Classic started a every 30 minute bus service (X38) from Burton to Lichfield a few years back. Its prooved so popular that they now operate a sunday service.

I think a reopening could be used a lot especially if there is stops at Alrewas, National Memorioal Arboretum and Barton under needwood (It would reduce the use of train crew taxis to Central Rivers.) There is also lots of lots of new housing with commuters into Birmingham along the corridor who drive to Lichfield and fight for a station car parking space. Plus it would mean faster journeys to Sutton Coldfield \ North Birmingham.

The journey to Lichfield from Burton changing at Tamworth is not very appealing because the London Northwestern Service on the Trent Valley line has frequent cancellations and Lichfield trent valley is too far out of the town.

Thing is that can Burton on Trent handle the capacity? Maybe the bay platform at Burton will need reopening at considerable expence.

 

[Travelmonkey]

There is good demand Burton to Lichfield, Midland Classic started a every 30 minute bus service (X38) from Burton to Lichfield a few years back. Its prooved so popular that they now operate a sunday service.

I think a reopening could be used a lot especially if there is stops at Alrewas, National Memorioal Arboretum and Barton under needwood (It would reduce the use of train crew taxis to Central Rivers.) There is also lots of lots of new housing with commuters into Birmingham along the corridor who drive to Lichfield and fight for a station car parking space. Plus it would mean faster journeys to Sutton Coldfield \ North Birmingham.

The journey to Lichfield from Burton changing at Tamworth is not very appealing because the London Northwestern Service on the Trent Valley line has frequent cancellations and Lichfield trent valley is too far out of the town.

Thing is that can Burton on Trent handle the capacity? Maybe the bay platform at Burton will need reopening at considerable expence.

The X38 is the equally as popular Burton-Derby bus every 20 minutes uniquely shared by Trent Barton & Arriva

The X12 is Diamond East Midlands (former Midlands Classic) connecting Lichfield and Burton both these express routes compete on train corridors one XC one that could be,

I do like them bus services but since the rotala takeover I'd be quite happy for a WMT extension too the town.


What about Coalville-Birmingham semi fasts by the Cross city line that capacity pending would be a good one for passengers especially if they wish to connect with Avanti or TFW trains to the North West and Wales. That's a bit pie in the sky late night thinking though.

 

[AlastairFraser]

There is good demand Burton to Lichfield, Midland Classic started a every 30 minute bus service (X38) from Burton to Lichfield a few years back. Its prooved so popular that they now operate a sunday service.

I think a reopening could be used a lot especially if there is stops at Alrewas, National Memorioal Arboretum and Barton under needwood (It would reduce the use of train crew taxis to Central Rivers.) There is also lots of lots of new housing with commuters into Birmingham along the corridor who drive to Lichfield and fight for a station car parking space. Plus it would mean faster journeys to Sutton Coldfield \ North Birmingham.

The journey to Lichfield from Burton changing at Tamworth is not very appealing because the London Northwestern Service on the Trent Valley line has frequent cancellations and Lichfield trent valley is too far out of the town.

Thing is that can Burton on Trent handle the capacity? Maybe the bay platform at Burton will need reopening at considerable expence.

With the NMA station, you mean Alrewas and the NMA in one location, no? The old Alrewas station is nearby.
And a station at Barton would be more difficult since it is beyond Wychnor Junction on the main line.
Agree with everything else though.