memories of fast trains SR

[RichJF]

I remember on the Central Division when I was young there used to be a regular Victoria - Brighton service via Redhill in the '90s using Bigs/Cigs; something that can only be dreamed of these days (outside of the peaks) & 319's used to work the Horsham stoppers.

I also remember regularly catching the Charing Cross - Tunbridge Wells via Redhill train using 3/4 Cep stock.
There was also a timetabled London Bridge - Redhill - Tonbridge - Strood working that I caught once. If I remeber correctly these used to be fast to East Croydon, then semi-fasts to their respective destinations.

Gatwick Expresses were also regularly scheduled to go via this route rather than the Quarry Line.

I'm basing my knowledge on late 90s memories so if anyone has better info then please correct me.

 

[frodshamfella]

I think the fastest available on my old commuter line to Bexleyheath now, is fast London Bridge to Lewisham, that's it.

I remember the peak Holborn Viaduct/Blackfriars services used to miss our Nunhead and Denmark Hill.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I remember on the Central Division when I was young there used to be a regular Victoria - Brighton service via Redhill in the '90s using Bigs/Cigs; something that can only be dreamed of these days (outside of the peaks) & 319's used to work the Horsham stoppers.

I also remember regularly catching the Charing Cross - Tunbridge Wells via Redhill train using 3/4 Cep stock.
There was also a timetabled London Bridge - Redhill - Tonbridge - Strood working that I caught once. If I remeber correctly these used to be fast to East Croydon, then semi-fasts to their respective destinations.

Gatwick Expresses were also regularly scheduled to go via this route rather than the Quarry Line.

I'm basing my knowledge on late 90s memories so if anyone has better info then please correct me.

That jogs a memory, I do remember the Horsham semi fasts being normally diagrammed for class 319s. I remember distinctly the first service I got on my first day of secondary school was an 8 car class 319, Connex livery on the back unit and South Central livery on the front. I seem to recall us having to stand in the old Connex lounge area from the Connex Express days. The class 456s also ran the Horsham services a lot 15 years ago.

A recent memory from the last few years-although far from Southern territory, a service I'd sometimes get home from university was the peak-only 16:37 Hatfield to Kings Cross, diagrammed for a class 313 and calling only at Potters Bar and Finsbury Park. The train crossed onto the fasts at Marshmoor (South of Hatfield) for a great run at top speed traction motors screaming through the Hadley Wood and Barnet tunnels. I don't think passengers at the north London stations would have ever seen a 313 go so fast!

 

[NorthKent1989]

I recall for a few years from 1998-2002, there was a Plumstead to Victoria service which was all stops except Woolwich Dockyard, to Lewisham then non stop to Victoria, this was when the Gillingham semi fasts were diverted via Greenwich, on one occasion a slam door train was used, I think a networker had broken down and the slam door train was presumably the only train available for service, I remember the train speeding through Nunhead, taking over a South London line train after Peckham Rye, and Roaring through Denmark Hill, overtaking a Bexleyheath line train as it slowly trundled out of there, it was possibly the best train ride I've been on we didn't stop at any signal's either

 

[Flying Phil]

I believe there were some "fast" SR trains that ran behind Bulleid pacifics just before steam finished in 1967 on the SR?

 

[Taunton]

Back in the 1970s an annual visit to Chichester always included a day in London. This was before the diversion of the Mid-Sussex fasts via Gatwick, so they were fast from Victoria to Sutton, skipped Epsom (slowly), then Dorking and Horsham. It's an extraordinarily convoluted route, must have the most corkscrews and slows of any route out of London, through the likes of Mitcham Junction. 12 car express, with buffet.

 

[frodshamfella]

I remember as a kid, so i'm talking early 80s a morning service in the summer on the Bexleyheath line being extended from its normal Dartford or Gravesend termination point, being extended to Gillingham. This was being advertised on the blackboard within Bexleyheath Station ticket office, this extension seemingly was for a limited period.I never understood why really, if it was Margate or Ramsgate you could understand it more, perhaps it was to connect with coastal services at Chatham.

 

[frodshamfella]

I always found the rush hour service to from Charing Cross to Bromley North curious. From memory they ran fast from London Bridge to Grove Park, so in effect only served 3 stations, being Grove Park, Sundridge Park and Bromley North.

 

[eastwestdivide]

A few odd long-distance non-stop SR runs from the 1978-79 all-line timetable:
- summer weekdays dated 0926 from Peckham Rye to Ramsgate, calling at stations to Swanley, then non-stop to Whitstable. Think it came ECS from a morning rush-hour train into one of the London terminals.
- 1712 Cannon St to Ramsgate, first stop Rainham (unusual to miss out Chatham and Gillingham).
- already mentioned, the rush-hour Charing Cross to Gillingham+Maidstone W services splitting at Strood: non-stop from London Bridge to Sidcup.
- also on the Dartford lines, a number of rush-hour services non-stop between Cannon St and Woolwich Arsenal.
- summer Saturdays Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour extras, non-stop between Guildford-Portsmouth Harbour (or some with one additional stop at Havant) with a 1h30 quickest timing Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour.
- summer Saturdays 1025 Waterloo-Bournemouth non-stop arrive 1205, acting as a relief to the 1030 Waterloo-Southampton-Bournemouth (arr 1210)-and stations to Weymouth.
- on the Ashford-Hastings line, all trains were all stations, except a weekdays 0718 Hastings-Ore-Rye-Appledore-Ham Street-Ashford 0800, and a return 0810 Ashford-Rye-Ore-Hastings 0842.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I always found the rush hour service to from Charing Cross to Bromley North curious. From memory they ran fast from London Bridge to Grove Park, so in effect only served 3 stations, being Grove Park, Sundridge Park and Bromley North.

In the 1978-79 timetable, they were CX-Wloo-London Br-Hither Green-Grove Park-Sundridge Park-Bromley N. But still a very short service. Non-stop through St John's though, like most trains!

 

[Taunton]

summer Saturdays Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour extras, non-stop between Guildford-Portsmouth Harbour (or some with one additional stop at Havant) with a 1h30 quickest timing Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour.

In the 1950s-60s on summer Saturdays, Waterloo to Portsmouth fast was every 15 minutes. A single big queue at Waterloo was just directed into the next train with space.

By about 1130 the express stock was all in use so one of these trains was formed 12-SUB and ran nonstop to Portsmouth Harbour. This must have been the longest non-stop suburban stock run on the system.

 

[frodshamfella]

In the 1978-79 timetable, they were CX-Wloo-London Br-Hither Green-Grove Park-Sundridge Park-Bromley N. But still a very short service. Non-stop through St John's though, like most trains!

Ahh Ok , stopped at Hither Green too. There is a campaign I think to get direct Bromley North service to London back.

 

[frodshamfella]

Can anyone remember the fast service from on Caterham/Tattenham Corner services, what that used to run like. I know sometimes they operated from Charing Cross, and divided at Purley ?

 

[yorksrob]

On the SE and Central sectors there doesn't seem to be many semi fast trains anymore,
Just stopping or "fast" (The Chatham routes to Bromley can hardly be considered fast anymore) most of the stoppers to Charing Cross skipped St. John's and New Cross even before the mid 2010s London Bridge reorganisation.

I seem to recall that the Caterham and Tattenham Corner trains used to join and divide at Purley than called only at East Croydon, Norwood Junction, Sydenham, Forest Hill, New Cross Gate then into Charing Cross, but that Thameslink kinda put an end to it and now all trains on the Central side run non stop to either Norwood or Croydon.

I always knew that Abbey Wood was only added to the Woolwich semi fasts because of Thamesmead being built, but never knew that the service was London Bridge, then non stop to Woolwich then Dartford, I know Charlton was added in the mid 90s and Greenhithe around 2000, so this service is more of a skip stop than a semi fast service.

Are semi fast trains just too impractical to run these days?

In the 1950s-60s on summer Saturdays, Waterloo to Portsmouth fast was every 15 minutes. A single big queue at Waterloo was just directed into the next train with space.

By about 1130 the express stock was all in use so one of these trains was formed 12-SUB and ran nonstop to Portsmouth Harbour. This must have been the longest non-stop suburban stock run on the system.

My goodness, that's some frequency ! Did they all go via Guildford and how were the intermediate stops served ?

 

[30907]

My goodness, that's some frequency ! Did they all go via Guildford and how were the intermediate stops served ?

All via Guildford though IIRC one or two Up via Cobham. The regular xx50 made the usual stops (Woking, Guildford, Haslemere - Havant was SX peak hours only). The xx20 called at Guildford and Havant for the Hayling traffic. The xx10 and xx40 were fully reservable, one picking up at Woking, one at Guildford - and got you in the ferry queue at Portsmouth before the unreserved pax.

The 12SUB was a queuebuster apart from anything else..

 

[Dr Hoo]

Taking a slightly different approach, does anybody have any recollections of 'slow', 'fast' trains?

The sort of thing that I have in mind is an occasion that I recall when a fast Cannon Street-Ramsgate evening peak service that I was on (normally fast to Chatham at the time) was pulled up at St Johns, at a signal. No radio or public address in those days.

The driver was evidently asked if he had route knowledge via Woolwich Arsenal because of a blockage in the route via Chiselhurst and Sole Street. We then set off and by dint of a fantastic driving technique that was more 'slow cycling race' than 'greyhound' managed to make it to Chatham without stopping, despite being shoehorned in to a non-existent 'path' behind various all stations services. A marvellous piece of footplate craft, demonstrating once again what proper route knowledge really entails.

 

[yorksrob]

All via Guildford though IIRC one or two Up via Cobham. The regular xx50 made the usual stops (Woking, Guildford, Haslemere - Havant was SX peak hours only). The xx20 called at Guildford and Havant for the Hayling traffic. The xx10 and xx40 were fully reservable, one picking up at Woking, one at Guildford - and got you in the ferry queue at Portsmouth before the unreserved pax.

The 12SUB was a queuebuster apart from anything else..

When you add that to the services from Victoria via Dorking, that's quite an impressive demand generated by Portsmouth. Presumably Navy/IOW.

 

[30907]

When you add that to the services from Victoria via Dorking, that's quite an impressive demand generated by Portsmouth. Presumably Navy/IOW.

On a Summer Saturday it was IoW. Not much London traffic via Mid Sussex after 1923 (until privatisation)

 

[Busaholic]

In the 1978-79 timetable, they were CX-Wloo-London Br-Hither Green-Grove Park-Sundridge Park-Bromley N. But still a very short service. Non-stop through St John's though, like most trains!

I lived at Hither Green 1973 to 1981 and used the Bromley North trains for much of that period: indeed, there was an inter-peak service, and Saturdays too iirc, for some of that time, but never a Sunday or evening service.

 

[30907]

I lived at Hither Green 1973 to 1981 and used the Bromley North trains for much of that period: indeed, there was an inter-peak service, and Saturdays too iirc, for some of that time, but never a Sunday or evening service.

They were the least crowded CX services - I sometimes caught the 172x off Waterloo E for a relatively comfortable trip back Shortlands, even though it was a long walk.

IIRC the last through train was 0808 up, but that was eventually diverted to start at Petts Wood.

 

[SouthDevonian]

I worked in Dover for 18 months from mid 1967 to early 1969 but would go up to London about once every two months. In the space of about an hour in the morning peak there was a choice 3 routes & destinations: CX via Tonbridge (fastest with fewest stops); Victoria via Chatham; Holborn Viaduct via Maidstone East. On one occasion the fast return on a Sunday evening was diverted via Maidstone East, ie. non-stop Waterloo East to Ashford.

For a spell of 3 of those months I was seconded to Chatham but would go back to Dover most weekends. In those days there was still Saturday morning working so I would go to Chatham station after midday where there was a choice of direct trains to Dover. One stopped at all or most stations to Faversham then semi-fast to Dover whilst the other made limited calls to Faversham then all stations to Dover. Certainly one, and possibly both of them, had a portion for Ramsgate.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Taking a slightly different approach, does anybody have any recollections of 'slow', 'fast' trains?

The sort of thing that I have in mind is an occasion that I recall when a fast Cannon Street-Ramsgate evening peak service that I was on (normally fast to Chatham at the time) was pulled up at St Johns, at a signal. No radio or public address in those days.

The driver was evidently asked if he had route knowledge via Woolwich Arsenal because of a blockage in the route via Chiselhurst and Sole Street. We then set off and by dint of a fantastic driving technique that was more 'slow cycling race' than 'greyhound' managed to make it to Chatham without stopping, despite being shoehorned in to a non-existent 'path' behind various all stations services. A marvellous piece of footplate craft, demonstrating once again what proper route knowledge really entails.

My dad once told me a story from when he used to work in Farnborough, of an evening service back to Waterloo that was so notoriously slow, that on arriving at Clapham Junction passengers were slamming the door shut in anger and demanding to know from the guard if the train had a fault wrong with it. This was around the late 90s early 00s if anyone knows the service.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

A replica Southern timetable from 1947 shows some peak trains from Reading which after Feltham were either Hounslow or Richmond only. This was quicker than today, but by bringing in more stops this must have created more paths for an increased frequency, as well as an improved service at the intermediate stations.

There were examples of this still running as late at the 1980s, although most still stopped at Clapham Junction as well. I think it was mid 1980s when the Twickenham stop was added.

 

[Busaholic]

They were the least crowded CX services - I sometimes caught the 172x off Waterloo E for a relatively comfortable trip back Shortlands, even though it was a long walk.

IIRC the last through train was 0808 up, but that was eventually diverted to start at Petts Wood.

Not a bad walk from Bromley N to Shortlands, but the other way is a puff, particularly after a working day. Admittedly, I only did it for about three months.

 

[satisnek]

Ah, the Summer Saturday Pompey services - those 'squiggly line' trains in the timetable - I had forgotten all about them! Some running straight through Guildford at a stately 40mph or whatever it was.

VEP stock in the late '70s I seem to recollect, although my memory may be based on seeing just one train

 

[30907]

Not a bad walk from Bromley N to Shortlands, but the other way is a puff, particularly after a working day. Admittedly, I only did it for about three months.

Too right, and I lived on the hill not down in the valley.

To get back on topic, Shortlands had a non-stop to the City at 8.32 with first class advertised - a Gillingham starter. There was no equivalent train back.

I remember being told that one of our churchwardens was the only 1st class season ticket holder from Shortlands.

(Post 1967 it was 08.31 with a Catford stop, popular with pupils at a certain school )

 

[Taunton]

The ultimate fast train on the old Southern was, of course, the initial Eurostar service. Not that fast actually, and never really got going until Tonbridge, when it was a 100mph dash to the tunnel. The old 4CEP boat trains were doubtless a bit slower, but felt just as fast, if not more so.

One Eurostar was not so fast, seemed to be behind something out to Chislehurst, then a long signal stop (probably asking the driver about their route knowledge), and a diversion via Maidstone, grinding round the sharp curves at Maidstone East, to the surprise of those on the platform. What a contrast over in France. Got to Gare du Nord about an hour late.

 

[Busaholic]

Too right, and I lived on the hill not down in the valley.

To get back on topic, Shortlands had a non-stop to the City at 8.32 with first class advertised - a Gillingham stsrter. There was no equivalent train back.

I remember being told that one of our churchwardens was the only 1st class season ticket holder from Shortlands.

(Post 1967 it was 08.31 with a Catford stop, popular with pupils at a certain school )

Would have been popular with me too if I hadn't left that certain school in the February of 1967,

 

[30907]

Would have been popular with me too if I hadn't left that certain school in the February of 1967,

That's what prompted the remark. I was commuting to another place for several years longer.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

No mention then of the 1967 electric service timetable on the Bournemouth line , fast Winchester to Waterloo , every hour ...

Summer only Wloo - Lymington Pier fast - 4 VEP - calling only key stations.