MediaCityUK points fail again, its there something wrong with them?

[thenorthern]

This morning at MediaCityUK there was another points failure which meant that Eccles-Piccadilly trams in both directions had to avoid MediaCityUK. This afternoon there was the same issue which meant again trams for a while were unable to call there.

I know the fact that the points failing isn't that bigger issue as points do fail but given the amount of time the points at the triangular junction do fail there is there a design fault with them?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is this the same as happened in the Cornbrook area in the past?

 

[northwichcat]

Salford Quays/Eccles is getting a poor service at the moment, with the Piccadilly-MediaCity service having being withdrawn and no news of whether it'll be reintroduced and all Eccles services getting routed via MediaCity. Some commuters have commented the changes have added 10 minutes to their commute.

 

[syorksdeano]

Are the Cornbrooke issues now resolved ? Iv lost count how many times I have sat on the tram to fin out we have been 'wrong routed'

 

[thenorthern]

Not seen any with the Cornbrook points for a while but thats not to say that there hasn't been any.

With MediaCityUK ponts I think most the problems may be as the track is overlaid with grass boards which I would imagine water is getting into the internal workings.

The current arrangement for the Eccles line is poor at the moment as the MediaCityUK reversal does add on a large amount of time and as there. Also the platform arrangement at MediaCityUK is poor as regularly two trams are calling there at the same time which means trams are regularly using the seldom used Platform B however it would be useful it Piccadilly trams always used one of the platforms and Eccles trams used another one as currently they can use both.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also the platform arrangement at MediaCityUK is poor as regularly two trams are calling there at the same time which means trams are regularly using the seldom used Platform B however it would be useful it Piccadilly trams always used one of the platforms and Eccles trams used another one as currently they can use both.

That sounds so logical considering two platforms have been there for quite a period of time.

 

[185]

^Lol at 'Cornbroke' ...I like that

I've always been of the view that if they cannot run the two seperate services, the track could be reconfigured using 30m of signal-protected interlaced track, two sprung points and two diamond crossings. Permanent signage would then be an option at MediaCity.

> Trams would set off from Harbour City to Media, through sprung points into the RH platform. Driver would change ends, then on return sprung points would send tram to Broadway outbound platform > to Eccles.

> Trams on return would set off from Broadway Inbound, round right hand curve towards MediaCity, through sprung points into the LH platform. Driver change ends and sprung points would send tram to Harbour City inbound platform.

Direct curves Broadway-Harbour City removed or kept for manual working. I reckon usage will fall when the much, much faster IWM stop opens, 3.5 mins journey time from Pomona, 200m from the BBC.

 

[thenorthern]

Looking at the amount of points failures on Twitter I have counted 9 since the 1st of September this year at MediaCityUK.

The alternating platforms isn't the only issue at the moment there seems to be a large amount of Eccles trams which decide around the Salford Quays area that they are no longer running via MediaCityUK and I have to get off and wait for the next tram.

 

[familyguy99]

I'm pretty sure they also had problems with points in MediaCity area every since that section of line opened back in 2010, I sure someone over on Skyscrapercity website mention that Eccles line is due of renewal work in 2016 so if that were to happen then they may try solve problems at MediaCity when renewal work is going on.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm pretty sure they also had problems with points in MediaCity area every since that section of line opened back in 2010

Didn't a tram derail at MediaCity on either a test run or one of the first services?

 

[edwin_m]

Didn't a tram derail at MediaCity on either a test run or one of the first services?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that was due to reversing the tram while it was standing on a sprung point. D'oh...

 

[WatcherZero]

The early issues was with signalling control reliability at MediaCity, the computer control of the points kept crashing forcing manual operation.

That side is reliable nowadays though the points are getting more of a work out than intended at the moment due to the closure of St Peters and reduced service frequency, operating every service via the spur now rather than just at night and on weekends.

Operationally the second platform is supposed to only be used during the evening/weekends which is why services are displaying as all using platform 1 during the weekdays, however the signalling is able to cope and automatically redirect a tram into the second platform if the 1st is occupied.

 

[thenorthern]

Going into MediaCityUK from Eccles to Piccadilly requires going over 8 sets of points which is a large amount for any line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Going into MediaCityUK from Eccles to Piccadilly requires going over 8 sets of points which is a large amount for any line.

What is the routine points maintenance programme like on the Manchester Metrolink system in terms of times between visits?

 

[507 001]

The issue was with a failed conflict monitor (i.e. the equipment that detects if a tram has passed a stop signal), this locks all points and signals to prevent derailments.

 

[miami]

What's the point (hoho) of mediacity uk tram stop? It saves a 300m walk tops, and when IWM opens won't it make sense to simply close the branch completely?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What's the point (hoho) of mediacity uk tram stop? It saves a 300m walk tops, and when IWM opens won't it make sense to simply close the branch completely?

Something to do with the relocation of the large broadcasting companies. The name tends to be something of a give-away in that respect. The BBC broadcast a number of daily programmes from this area.

Does anyone know what was the total cost of the two platform terminal stop at Media City UK and how much, if any, was contributed by those broadcasting companies towards its original cost.

 

[northwichcat]

What's the point (hoho) of mediacity uk tram stop? It saves a 300m walk tops, and when IWM opens won't it make sense to simply close the branch completely?

Peel Holdings had to include it in their planning application for MediaCity for it to be accepted. TfGM seem to think that the solution to any problem is trams.

 

[thenorthern]

I think Peel Holdings who own MediaCityUK part funded the MediaCityUK spur.

The spur itself does get a fairly large number passengers from the BBC, ITV and University of Salford. The number 50 bus which runs from outside MediaCityUK and connects the site to Salford Crescent station gets a fairly large number of passengers as well.

 

[miami]

I think Peel Holdings who own MediaCityUK part funded the MediaCityUK spur.

The spur itself does get a fairly large number passengers from the BBC, ITV and University of Salford. The number 50 bus which runs from outside MediaCityUK and connects the site to Salford Crescent station gets a fairly large number of passengers as well.

I suspect that the same people would get the tram to harbour city. Had it extended over the canal to IWM, MUFC and back to Pomona, or IWM and on to Trafford centre (another peel holding), or down to the altrincham line, it would feel more like an integrated part of the network than a specific bbc only extension.

One radical option would be old Trafford - MUFC - IWM - mediacity - harbour city the north to Salford crescent then east to Victoria.

I dislike stubs, they always seem to be a lack of planning.

Did they even consider retoutinf the tram so it would go through mediacity then north to rejoin the Eccles line as a through running?

 

[thenorthern]

I suspect that the same people would get the tram to harbour city. Had it extended over the canal to IWM, MUFC and back to Pomona, or IWM and on to Trafford centre (another peel holding), or down to the altrincham line, it would feel more like an integrated part of the network than a specific bbc only extension.

One radical option would be old Trafford - MUFC - IWM - mediacity - harbour city the north to Salford crescent then east to Victoria.

I dislike stubs, they always seem to be a lack of planning.

Did they even consider retoutinf the tram so it would go through mediacity then north to rejoin the Eccles line as a through running?

Doubt the MediaCityUK spur could rejoin the Eccles line as the BBC Quay House is in the way of where the route would be. The spur was planned though before the Trafford Park line which is why it was built beforehand although an Imperial War Museum stop would be useful for the production crew who work on Coronation Street as it will be right outside the set.

Realistically though the MediaCityUK spur is like most of MediaCityUK, badly planned, overpriced and with unforeseen problems.

 

[northwichcat]

I dislike stubs, they always seem to be a lack of planning.

I take it you've not kept up-to-date with Metrolink projects in the past. Metrolink are more than happy to close a section of track for 3 months and then close the same section of track 2 years later for another 3 months when if the work was done concurrently it would have taken 4 months in total.

TfGM must either think if they don't spend money straight away then they'll lose it or if they haven't got closures planned then it doesn't give the impression they are improving the network.

Spurs don't have to mean lack of planning. An option has always existed for the Airport heavy rail spur to the extended and joined on to the Mid-Cheshire line. The problem is neither the Airport or Network Rail want to say "We need it now" as that means they'll have to find cash to build it. The last thing Network Rail said is they'll look at it as a CP6 project but the last thing the Airport said is they want to look at removing the future proofing as they don't think it'll be needed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

TfGM must either think if they don't spend money straight away then they'll lose it or if they haven't got closures planned then it doesn't give the impression they are improving the network.

I may be wrong in my assumption, but were not some recent work programmes (including the current 2CC line) subject to time completion of certain works as part of the funding monies that were specific to those Metrolink project works?

 

[WatcherZero]

Peel did contribute towards the Mediacity spur however the spur was planned before the Medicity development though the station was relocated, it was originally to be alongside the road between the quays next to the Lowry, a site some may recognise by it being occupied by a portacabin sales office for a long time.

 

[miami]

Doubt the MediaCityUK spur could rejoin the Eccles line as the BBC Quay House is in the way of where the route would be. The spur was planned though before the Trafford Park line which is why it was built beforehand although an Imperial War Museum stop would be useful for the production crew who work on Coronation Street as it will be right outside the set.

Realistically though the MediaCityUK spur is like most of MediaCityUK, badly planned, overpriced and with unforeseen problems.

I was thinking more that the station would have been put a little back, then a sharp right, running up the road between the studios and dock house.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6745225

But I suppose if there's not enough traffic from Harbour City to Eccles to warrant 10tph, but is enough from harbourcity to cornbrook, then it doesn't make much difference.

I think a Mediacity to Salford Crescent (via Howard Street and Cross Lane) and down the Irwell to Victoria could have worked too.

 

[thenorthern]

I was thinking more that the station would have been put a little back, then a sharp right, running up the road between the studios and dock house.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6745225

But I suppose if there's not enough traffic from Harbour City to Eccles to warrant 10tph, but is enough from harbourcity to cornbrook, then it doesn't make much difference.

I think a Mediacity to Salford Crescent (via Howard Street and Cross Lane) and down the Irwell to Victoria could have worked too.

Good route although it runs too close to the studios that the vibrations would be too great.

The points isn't the only problem the time until next trams at MediaCityUK seems to have no relevance with the time tram arrives as the single line section into MediaCityUK gets congested.

 

[Nym]

I'd hope it will work better when the timetable provides 5tph between Deansgate and MediaCity and 5tph between Eccles and Deansgate all day, except for early morning and late evening.

 

[miami]

I'd hope it will work better when the timetable provides 5tph between Deansgate and MediaCity and 5tph between Eccles and Deansgate all day, except for early morning and late evening.

It's a 4 minute walk from Harbour City to MediaCity, so assuming even spacing it's always worth getting the first tram that arrives.

I thought that mediacity trams were going to terminate at Cornbrook. When 2CC is open are they both terminating short at gmex, rather than running through?

Is the final idea to terminate both at gmex, or at cornbrook? Eccles (and possibly both at one point) used to run to Picadilly. If it's a choice between a direct train to Harbour City and 5 minute walk, or a change at Cornbrook and a wait for upto 11 minutes, and a 1 minute walk, I do wonder.

But still, mcuk pulls in the punters, so I guess it's not all bad.

 

[WatcherZero]

Original plan was to buy 4 trams and run a 5tph service from Mediacity to Cornbrook alongside the 5tph to Eccles, as the network expansions were being built they had a temporary surplus and were able to extend the Mediacity service to Piccadilly however they didn't want this to become a expectation and so only advertised it running to Cornbrook. Last year they ordered extra trams for capacity and Trafford extension which allows the running to Piccadilly to become a permanent fixture and so have started advertising it. (though of course at the moment St Peters reconstruction means this isn't running)

 

[thenorthern]

I would think that Peel Property, BBC and ITV would want the direct Piccadilly to MediaCityUK service to continue and would lobby TFGM if there were plans to withdraw it.

I was at MediaCityUK today and noticed several things that really sum up the problem with the current service arrangement. I arrived at 11:45 wanting to get the tram to Piccadilly and there was an Eccles tram leaving and the information board said Piccadilly 7 Min, then at 11:52 it was still saying Piccadilly 7 min but quickly changed to Eccles 5 min and Piccadilly 10 min. I found out the tram that I was wanting had been diverted not to call at MediaCityUK. Finally when my tram did arrive the Eccles tram was still in the platform that said for Piccadilly so just as it was pulling in there was an announcement saying to move to the other platform for the Piccadilly tram. I finally left at 12:03 which was quite a bit later.

At the moment the information boards seem to just be there as decoration and the times don't seem to mean anything.