Media Coverage of COVID -19

[farleigh]

Again, no. Things such as this need to be called out for what they are. And what they are sits beyond language that is deemed acceptable on this forum.

No. She's a conspiracy theorist. The same raft of people whom believe Covid is a hoax tend to believe that the vaccines are laden with Bill Gates' personal stash of tracking chips and that we all live on a flat disc.

Call these people out for what they are. There's no need to tiptoeing around this.

People might consider you are a conspiracy theorist for thinking there is a 'raft' of people who believe covid is a hoax.

I mean you believe there is a conspiracy - that is your theory no?

 

[nlogax]

Er, there is a raft of people who believe Covid is a hoax. Not sure how much clearer I can be than that. Plenty of examples out there of this.

https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1326456554393047047

Once again Facebook is the main platform for anti-vaccine nonsense. One Devon anti-5G FB group with c700 members is full of "covid is a hoax, vaccines and 5G are about mind control" posts. Claims it "serves up the research on a plate" to people who don't have time. Dangerous

(sorry if I've misinterpreted your post)

 

[johnnychips]

This is a problem. There is a conflagration of people who think that the vaccine/COVID does not exist and people who believe the measures taken against the virus are misguided. It is easy for rational people to be lumped in the incorrect camp.

 

[brad465]

On tomorrow's front pages, we have the Daily Mail leading with recent CRG discussions, but also in the Telegraph they're claiming Johnson is being over-cautious about reopening schools and that some scientific advisers are okay with them reopening earlier:

 

[Bantamzen]

Er, there is a raft of people who believe Covid is a hoax. Not sure how much clearer I can be than that. Plenty of examples out there of this.

https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1326456554393047047



(sorry if I've misinterpreted your post)

700 people, well that I suppose is a raft....

Seriously though, how many of those people actually believe it, and how many are just there for giggles & of course how many are just bot accounts? I'm not saying that there are not conspiracy theorists out there, here in Bradford 5G masts have actually been attacked in recent months. But in reality these numbers are likely to be tiny. The media have made quite a song and dance about them, especially the BBC which has often gone out of it's way to highlight them, that sells newspapers, generates clicks. However most people cynical about either the restrictions or vaccines are not looking for a conspiracy to cling to, they just want more evidence which is forthcoming for the latter, not so much for the former.

 

[nlogax]

700 people, well that I suppose is a raft....

Seriously though, how many of those people actually believe it, and how many are just there for giggles & of course how many are just bot accounts? I'm not saying that there are not conspiracy theorists out there, here in Bradford 5G masts have actually been attacked in recent months. But in reality these numbers are likely to be tiny. The media have made quite a song and dance about them, especially the BBC which has often gone out of it's way to highlight them, that sells newspapers, generates clicks. However most people cynical about either the restrictions or vaccines are not looking for a conspiracy to cling to, they just want more evidence which is forthcoming for the latter, not so much for the former.

That was just one example cited by RCJ, there are plenty of others. I keep banging on about it but the more there are, the less genuine concerns and protests can be heard. Piers Corbyn and David Icke turning up at the various anti-lockdown protests made legitimate protests entirely ineffective. Being cynical about the restrictions is one thing, being cynical about vaccines and the peer-reviewed international science behind them is something else entirely. This sort of nonsense needs to be nipped in the bud.

As of this month 5G mast attacks are approaching 200 and counting.

 

[DB]

This is a problem. There is a conflagration of people who think that the vaccine/COVID does not exist and people who believe the measures taken against the virus are misguided. It is easy for rational people to be lumped in the incorrect camp.

Many won't even recognise that they are not the same - they view anyone who disagress with the current measures, for whatever reason, as a 'conspiracy theorist'.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Perhaps so - I've not looked into this particular case and whether it is particularly problematic or not.

In general I have always felt that it is better to engage people who argue nonsense and shine a light onto what they are saying, rather than banning them. David Irving was an excellent example of that - he suffered far more reputational damage as a result of the court case he lost, than when he was locked up later for holocaust denial. The latter made him somewhat of a martyr to a rather unpleasant group of people; the court case just made him look ridiculous.

I am a very strong believer in freedom of speech for everyone, even if they're talking total nonsense, though of course there has to be a line drawn at some point or other. As ever, the debate is where to draw the line.

This is getting a little off topic, but basically my view is that freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of that speech.
Those consequences could be people laughing at you, they could be people suing you, they could be you being arrested for things like incitement to violence, they could you be you being banned from the hospital etc etc.

This is a problem. There is a conflagration of people who think that the vaccine/COVID does not exist and people who believe the measures taken against the virus are misguided. It is easy for rational people to be lumped in the incorrect camp.

However most people cynical about either the restrictions or vaccines are not looking for a conspiracy to cling to, they just want more evidence which is forthcoming for the latter, not so much for the former.

Except the point that started this conversation was a woman who was going into hospitals to film and then claiming that the footage proved that the pandemic is not real and COVID doesn't exist.
So we are very much talking about these conspiracy theorists rather than just people who think the government policies are wrong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Feb 2021 ==

Many won't even recognise that they are not the same - they view anyone who disagress with the current measures, for whatever reason, as a 'conspiracy theorist'.

Sometimes they are the same people though, as one is largely a subset of the other.

It is like Brexiteers / Trump supporters and racists.
Sure, not all Brexiteers / Trump supporters are racists, and not everyone who disagrees with the governments policies is a conspiracy theorist. However most racists certainly did support Brexit / Trump, and most conspiracy theorists who believe COVID isn't real obviously are disagreeing with government policies.

The problem with that is if you you to be careful with whom you share a platform. For example those who supported Brexit / Trump were pretty bad at refusing to associated themselves with the violent racists groups (and in some cases actively associated themselves with those groups to get their support). And those who are against the government policies right now are struggling to not fall into the same trap by associating themselves with genuine conspiracy theorists / anti-vaxers.

 

[MikeWM]

This is getting a little off topic, but basically my view is that freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of that speech.
Those consequences could be people laughing at you, they could be people suing you, they could be you being arrested for things like incitement to violence, they could you be you being banned from the hospital etc etc.

But that depends on whether those consequences are reasonable or not. It isn't much use for example to say 'you are allowed to criticise the government, but if you do so the consequences may include being locked up and tortured' - as often occurs in despotic regimes. I agree that actions have consequences and rights come with responsibilities, but that needs to apply to the 'authorities' as well as the individual.

 

[greyman42]

Being cynical about the restrictions is one thing, being cynical about vaccines and the peer-reviewed international science behind them is something else entirely. This sort of nonsense needs to be nipped in the bud.

And what do you think will happen if it is not?

 

[nlogax]

And what do you think will happen if it is not?

Have you not been watching the recent results of a bunch of weak-minded conspiracy theorists directed by a megalomaniac? Ok then.

 

[greyman42]

Have you not been watching the recent results of a bunch of weak-minded conspiracy theorists directed by a megalomaniac? Ok then.

That is not going to happen in the UK.

 

[Darandio]

That is not going to happen in the UK.

What makes you so sure. Because we are all too intelligent over here and not as easily brainwashed?

Because the behaviour i've seen over the last 12 months in this country suggests the total opposite.

 

[greyman42]

What makes you so sure. Because we are all too intelligent over here and not as easily brainwashed?

Because the behaviour i've seen over the last 12 months in this country suggests the total opposite.

What behaviour are you thinking of?

 

[Darandio]

What behaviour are you thinking of?

The behaviour in general, the way people are acting and turning on each other like never before, people are very different than they were 12 months ago. These people now have much more time at home to soak up any stories people are prepared to feed them and social media means it spreads like wildfire.

I find it naive (in my opinion) if anyone believes that only small numbers are having their heads turned by the various stories and theories being spread around out there.

 

[greyman42]

I think it is only a very small number who take conspiracy theorists seriously.

 

[birchesgreen]

I thought this was an interesting article

School closures and job losses in UK 'could lead to social unrest'

Exclusive: West Midlands crime commissioner warns of Covid restrictions’ effect on young people

www.theguardian.com

Young people are at risk of becoming unemployable and turning to crime amid partial school closures and rising joblessness, in a spiral that could lead to social unrest, the crime commissioner for England’s second biggest force has warned.

Covid was “oiling the wheels of violence”, David Jamieson, the police and crime commissioner (PCC) for the West Midlands, said in an interview with the Guardian.

“I think we’ve got a tsunami, which we’re holding back at the moment. If we don’t address the issues of people coming off furlough and then just having nothing they can see as their future, we are in trouble. I think it will eventually result in some sort of social unrest.”

Jamieson added: “We’ve virtually gone now a year that some children have not really experienced schooling. Some may not want to go back to school after this, and that group of people are going to go through life probably unemployable … And that group of people is going to lose it.”

He said that without the stability of school, some young people would turn to crime, including within gangs: “Those children out of school, particularly young boys, are looking for places where they can belong, places they can identify. They identify through music and friends, and they can identify through violence, sadly.”

“Since the schools have closed again, we are seeing more young people on the streets and getting involved in antisocial behaviour. My concern is that the level of crime a minority of those young people are getting involved in has become increasingly serious.”

A report from West Midlands police in July found violence in public places, especially involving under 25s, was increasing week on week and was likely to continue through the summer with young people out of education.

Crime as a whole has fallen over the course of the pandemic, but the National Police Chiefs’ Council estimated that reports of antisocial behaviour were up 12% last year, when excluding breaches of Covid guidelines.

Jamieson also raised concerns that rising unemployment could push more people into crime. Data showed unemployment in the UK reached its highest level for more than four years in the three months to the end of November, while the government’s furlough scheme, due to expire at the end of April, is still subsiding the wages of millions of jobs.

With unemployment in the West Midlands rising by 17,000 between September and November and an estimated 8% of the workforce furloughed, Jamieson said there was a high risk of people – young men particularly – turning to “petty crime, antisocial behaviour and drugs” when facing long periods out of work.

But Desmond Jaddoo, a community activist in Birmingham, said politicians should not be too quick to blame the coronavirus crisis for rising levels of violence in the region.

“Since May last year, we have seen an escalation of violence and it’s far too simplistic to say it’s just because of lockdown, because of the schools closing and youth centres closing. There are more holistic issues surrounding why we have this type of violence,” said Jaddoo. “Covid has exacerbated a pre-existing issue, that’s all it’s done.”

He said intervention was desperately needed to improve neighbourhoods with high crime rates, by tackling poverty and lifting people’s aspirations. “There is a societal issue of mass disaffection; there are many people who don’t believe in the role of government or the role of the police,” he said.

The National Youth Agency, the national body for youth work in England , has found that gang activity and exploitation continue to be rife during lockdown, and that youth services are now working with more young people not previously known to the police or other services to be involved with gangs.

The NYA found an estimated 2 million young people have emerging needs – such as mental health problems or unsafe home environments – triggered or caused by the coronavirus crisis, on top of the 1 million young people with known vulnerabilities before the pandemic.

Iryna Pona, the policy manager at the Children’s Society, said Covid had created a “perfect storm” leaving many young people at risk of criminal exploitation.

“Under lockdown, children have been less visible to professionals who can spot signs they are at risk and get them vital help,” she said. “Criminal groups have adapted their methods since the pandemic began to continue to groom children and young people and take advantage of vulnerabilities like poverty and worries about the future.”

Vicky Foxcroft, the Labour MP for Lewisham, Deptford, chaired the Youth Violence commission last year that found clear links between young people disengaging or being excluded from school, and an increase in the likelihood of them being victims or perpetrators of serious violence.

“Schools are currently doing a fantastic job of providing remote education and reaching out to vulnerable families, but inevitably some pupils will fall through the cracks,” she said.

“It is clear that the pandemic is having a huge impact on our young people and the consequences – both long and short-term – must not be overlooked.”

 

[VauxhallandI]

I thought this was an interesting article

School closures and job losses in UK 'could lead to social unrest'

Exclusive: West Midlands crime commissioner warns of Covid restrictions’ effect on young people

www.theguardian.com

Indeed and yet his WM Police are some of the best at harassing elderly vulnerable people in supermarkets about masks.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The Mirror saying restrictions are here until 2022

Covid restrictions need to remain until 2022 due to mutant strains, experts say

Researchers at Warwick University simulated what would happen if restrictions were gradually eased from now, with another catastrophic surge inevitable

www.mirror.co.uk

This is because there will still be a substantial amount of people who refuse or cannot have the vaccine, meaning transmissions could quickly soar.


While none of the jabs give complete coverage against the virus.

The paper says if the R rate were to remain at 0.8 and three million doses were being given each week and 95 per cent of those invited for a jab accepted, another wave could still hit before winter this year.

Covid restrictions need to remain until 2022 due to mutant strains, experts say

Researchers at Warwick University simulated what would happen if restrictions were gradually eased from now, with another catastrophic surge inevitable

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Bantamzen]

The Mirror saying restrictions are here until 2022

Covid restrictions need to remain until 2022 due to mutant strains, experts say

Researchers at Warwick University simulated what would happen if restrictions were gradually eased from now, with another catastrophic surge inevitable

www.mirror.co.uk

What the hell do we pay these so-called experts for? Example:

The paper says if the R rate were to remain at 0.8 and three million doses were being given each week and 95 per cent of those invited for a jab accepted, another wave could still hit before winter this year.

So if the R rate stays below 1 with the vaccination rollout, there will be another wave? Really? I am starting to think that the "experts" need to go back to school to relearn the basics.

 

[DB]

The Mirror saying restrictions are here until 2022

Covid restrictions need to remain until 2022 due to mutant strains, experts say

Researchers at Warwick University simulated what would happen if restrictions were gradually eased from now, with another catastrophic surge inevitable

www.mirror.co.uk

What these researchers seem to ignore is that all such viruses will mutate - 2022 isn't an end point; it will keep on happening.

And permanent restrictions aren't possible, so there is nothing to be gained (and a lot to be lost) by continuing with any restrictions once a significant number of vaccines have been rolled out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2021 ==

What the hell do we pay these so-called experts for? Example:



So if the R rate stays below 1 with the vaccination rollout, there will be another wave? Really? I am starting to think that the "experts" need to go back to school to relearn the basics.

And they seem to be claiming this despite the evidence of last summer, where case dropped considerably even without any vaccines...

 

[DustyBin]

What the hell do we pay these so-called experts for? Example:



So if the R rate stays below 1 with the vaccination rollout, there will be another wave? Really? I am starting to think that the "experts" need to go back to school to relearn the basics.

Another wave of what though? People suffering mild cold-like symptoms for a few days? Because that’s all it will be once the vulnerable have been vaccinated. I despair at times!

 

[Bantamzen]

What these researchers seem to ignore is that all such viruses will mutate - 2022 isn't an end point; it will keep on happening.

And permanent restrictions aren't possible, so there is nothing to be gained (and a lot to be lost) by continuing with any restrictions once a significant number of vaccines have been rolled out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2021 ==



And they seem to be claiming this despite the evidence of last summer, where case dropped considerably even without any vaccines...

Another wave of what though? People suffering mild cold-like symptoms for a few days? Because that’s all it will be once the vulnerable have been vaccinated. I despair at times!

Indeed. And this is becoming a problem, the doom-mongering coming out of some of these research groups is just going too far. Its becoming very evident that they are trying to manufacture more crisis scenarios to keep them relevant, and in funding. So I propose that at the next budget, their's be reduced in order to pay for all the restrictions they are calling for. Let's see how long they'd keep up the lockdown lines after something like that!

 

[VauxhallandI]

Indeed. And this is becoming a problem, the doom-mongering coming out of some of these research groups is just going too far. Its becoming very evident that they are trying to manufacture more crisis scenarios to keep them relevant, and in funding. So I propose that at the next budget, their's be reduced in order to pay for all the restrictions they are calling for. Let's see how long they'd keep up the lockdown lines after something like that!

Do we get to call them conspiracy theorists yet?

 

[Domh245]

The warwick paper was discussed yesterday in this thread, it's a bit of a junk paper but it does raise some interesting points.

So if the R rate stays below 1 with the vaccination rollout, there will be another wave? Really? I am starting to think that the "experts" need to go back to school to relearn the basics.

The news article has done the paper a bit of a disservice with that quote. From their methodology:

The effect of NPIs is matched in simulation up until the current lockdown. We then test scenarios in which lockdown is effective in reducing R to 0.8 or 1.2. This level is maintained until 22nd February, and then released in a linear manner up until complete removal of NPIs from 1st July or the start of 2022.

so it's not quite as simple as the mirror makes it sound (shocker!) - they've also managed to complete ignore the confidence intervals:


Thankfully, the more we discover about the vaccine rollout, the more it looks like the optimistic scenarios are the applicable one

As usual, the issue here is the media latching onto a worst case scenario and running away with it. At no point does either Warwick or SPI-M O say "keep restrictions until 2022", just "depending on how the vaccine rollout progresses and turns out, how the restrictions are eased, and myriad other factors, we could see an increase in deaths"

 

[kez19]

Do we get to call them conspiracy theorists yet?

Nah call them the tinfoil hat brigade!

I’ll ask this then so if people aren’t following conspiracies what do we call them? I said this before but my approach is look at things with an open mind but question things, or am I lumped in with the tinfoil hats?

 

[Yew]

they've also managed to complete ignore the confidence intervals:

Which is odd, as they cover most of the graph....

 

[kez19]

Another wave of what though? People suffering mild cold-like symptoms for a few days? Because that’s all it will be once the vulnerable have been vaccinated. I despair at times!

Never mind though being vaccinated and all that, they want one thing, they get it but still not happy but let’s continue with it more, have any of these doomers heard of karma? As it’ll come round their way if they don’t change their attitude/approach

 

[Skimpot flyer]

What these researchers seem to ignore is that all such viruses will mutate - 2022 isn't an end point; it will keep on happening.

And permanent restrictions aren't possible, so there is nothing to be gained (and a lot to be lost) by continuing with any restrictions once a significant number of vaccines have been rolled out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2021 ==



And they seem to be claiming this despite the evidence of last summer, where case dropped considerably even without any vaccines...

‘But it’s not seasonal’, certain people claimed...

 

[DB]

‘But it’s not seasonal’, certain people claimed...

Not seen anyone making that claim for a while given that even the worst scaremongers can see that it's not believable!