Media Coverage of COVID -19

[Yew]

I see YouTube have terminated TalkRadio's account

I've been unconfortable about how Youtube seems to try and be both a platform, yet has lots of rules about what content can be posted. Considering it's dominant market position, I think there should be consideration of viewing it as a 'common carrier'

 

[Scotrail12]

Piers Morgan is a disgraceful hypocrite - he hasn't practiced anything he has preached.

Real disappointing about TalkRadio getting a YouTube ban - I guess it is because they dared to question the narrative on lockdowns. To me, that seems like an attack on freedom of speech - if they had Piers Corbyn presenting their shows, I'd get it but their presenters even mentioned several times that they aren't denying COVID, just questioning the restrictions and have shut down some of the wackjobs. I don't see why YouTube felt the need to do this.

 

[kristiang85]

Real disappointing about TalkRadio getting a YouTube ban - I guess it is because they dared to question the narrative on lockdowns. To me, that seems like an attack on freedom of speech - if they had Piers Corbyn presenting their shows, I'd get it but their presenters even mentioned several times that they aren't denying COVID, just questioning the restrictions and have shut down some of the wackjobs. I don't see why YouTube felt the need to do this.

They actually also had pro-lockdown people on it as well, so it was more balanced than people make them out to be.

 

[Scotrail12]

They actually also had pro-lockdown people on it as well, so it was more balanced than people make them out to be.

Exactly - the likes of James Max present slots on it and they have had pro lockdown guests including Benjamin Butterworth who seems to pop up in every debate going there.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I've been unconfortable about how Youtube seems to try and be both a platform, yet has lots of rules about what content can be posted. Considering it's dominant market position, I think there should be consideration of viewing it as a 'common carrier'

Every platform has rules about what can be posted though.
Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, this forum. Even old fashioned TV is heavily regulated in terms of what can be broadcast (more so than any online platform).

Whilst points 1 and 2 are true, do you think this is responsible?

If YouTube felt the TalkRadio channel was breaking its rules - then yes.

Terms of service regarding hate speech, pornography, incitement to violence, etc. are very much responsible and needed. But stifling debate on one of the world's largest social media platforms is not, in my view. Especially at this time when social media is needing more reasoned debate and multiple viewpoints than ever. I'm speaking in terms of the broader picture than just COVID, as this has been an issue for a while now.

It will only mean that one side goes underground, and actually does fester into something more extreme and dangerous. History has shown this never ends well...

Again, if YouTube felt that TalkRadio were breaking its rules then it is up to them what they do. Most online platforms have content moderation policies that go far beyond just want you are talking about. How many of them have reacted to Trumps false claims about election fraud are an example of this (and actually Trump is an interesting example because it is widely believed that if he was any normal person Twitter would have banned him years ago due to continued breaking of rules).

As for your third point, this forum does not have global influence, so it is not comparable. Although I personally don't personally think any reasoned viewpoints should be restricted on any platform. Debate is healthy.

Reasoned debate is healthy. Debate fueled by conspiracy theorists ("the great reset", "plandemic" etc etc) is not healthy and is actually pretty damaging. That is the line that platforms like YouTube are trying to walk on this - and I do not envy them at all. It really isn't an easy job and they basically can't win either way because regardless or what they do or don't do - they will have people complaining.

 

[Scotrail12]

Reasoned debate is healthy. Debate fueled by conspiracy theorists ("the great reset", "plandemic" etc etc) is not healthy and is actually pretty damaging.

I'm guessing you've never listened to TalkRadio - reasoned debate consistently took place on that radio station. As a regular viewer, I can confirm that no conspiracy theories were ever promoted by presenters and the above two phrases were not used.

 

[Bantamzen]

Reasoned debate is healthy. Debate fueled by conspiracy theorists ("the great reset", "plandemic" etc etc) is not healthy and is actually pretty damaging. That is the line that platforms like YouTube are trying to walk on this - and I do not envy them at all. It really isn't an easy job and they basically can't win either way because regardless or what they do or don't do - they will have people complaining.

YouTube is literally full of conspiracy theorists, I mean full. Try for example looking at a channel like 'SciManDan' who is a guy the regularly debunks all sorts from Flat Eathers to space deniers and you'll see him talking about them and linking to their channels.

So does it still not strike it as a bit strange that a well known, if not necessarily well liked channel could get pulled when there is so much more wild stuff out there? I

 

[kristiang85]

Again, if YouTube felt that TalkRadio were breaking its rules then it is up to them what they do. Most online platforms have content moderation policies that go far beyond just want you are talking about. How many of them have reacted to Trumps false claims about election fraud are an example of this (and actually Trump is an interesting example because it is widely believed that if he was any normal person Twitter would have banned him years ago due to continued breaking of rules).

Yes it's interesting with Trump on Twitter, as I thought some of his previous tweets were inciting hate and violence, but were never sanctioned. Yet his electroal fraud ones were, even before there was categoric evidence that there wasn't any and it was his hot air. I personally thought the latter examples were less of a problem than the former. Certainly I agree his account might well have been long gone had he just remained Trump the businessman.

And as ScotRail12 said, TalkRadio never peddle any conspiracies (certainly not in the times I've seen it) - they just give air to alternative viewpoints on the virus measures, many of them from reputable scientists.

It's not a good look from YouTube.

 

[MikeWM]

Reasoned debate is healthy. Debate fueled by conspiracy theorists ("the great reset", "plandemic" etc etc) is not healthy and is actually pretty damaging.

I'm not entirely sure what you think is a 'conspiracy theory' about the concept of 'the great reset' - it is a published strategy by an influential group of people, you can go to the website and read all about it, and the leader of the group has a book you can buy today on Amazon called 'Covid-19 : The Great Reset'!

It seems a legitimate topic of discussion how much (if any) influence they bear on what is going on. The answer may well be none, but I don't see why it ought not to be discussed.

 

[Scotrail12]

Julia Hartley-Brewer asked Michael Gove when he was a guest on her show today if he believed in censorship by mass media, apparently he doesn't. Clearly she was trying to flag up this ban with the higher ups in government.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2021 ==

I think YouTube should at least release a statement as this has angered a lot of people (quite a few in the media have picked up on it). It's not like they've banned a very inconsequential YouTuber with 100 subscribers for spouting rubbish, this is a public broadcaster with thousands of listeners and provides a source of news if nothing else regardless of whether you do or don't agree with the opinions presented.

 

[kez19]

YouTube is literally full of conspiracy theorists, I mean full. Try for example looking at a channel like 'SciManDan' who is a guy the regularly debunks all sorts from Flat Eathers to space deniers and you'll see him talking about them and linking to their channels.

So does it still not strike it as a bit strange that a well known, if not necessarily well liked channel could get pulled when there is so much more wild stuff out there? I

The thing is even if you type on Google - The Great Reset - what is the first thing that pops up? WEF!, even under Googles own search at the bottom they even have things like Agenda 21/Agenda 2030 - seems pretty much out there!

Example: just clicked on The Great Reset Agenda 21: Great Reset Agenda

It alleges that the main goals of the Great Reset are to take global political and economic control by instating a Marxist totalitarian regime and by extension, the New World Order. followed by the wiki page..

Great Reset - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

whilst it is debatable its a wiki page but thats where one link directs me too, yet I don't follow no conspiracies - I have an open mind to things and question things more but I guess everyone is different

 

[37424]

They actually also had pro-lockdown people on it as well, so it was more balanced than people make them out to be.

Did it? it always seemed to me to be Right Wing, Anti Lockdown, Pro Brexit, but then even though I don't much like it much, shame its gone from You Tube but I guess to some degree You Tube as a private platform can do as it likes like RailUKforums. Obviously as a Radio station it will be regulated by Offcom although I admit I didn't listen to it a lot it seemed Right Wing biased to me and I'm not sure how that really squares with Offcom but thats probably not particularly relevant to YouTube, I do agree there has to be a variety of opinions that shouldn't be shutdown.

 

[brad465]

Youtube have "u-turned":

TalkRadio: YouTube reverses decision to ban channel

YouTube says the broadcaster posted banned Covid content, but it has decided to reinstate its channel.

www.bbc.co.uk

YouTube has reinstated TalkRadio's channel on its platform hours after saying it had been "terminated" for breaking the tech firm's rules.

It said the broadcaster had posted material that contradicted expert advice about the coronavirus pandemic.

But it explained its U-turn saying it sometimes made exceptions to guidelines that state repeat offenders face a permanent ban.

TalkRadio said it had yet to be given a full explanation for the affair.

The decision to ban TalkRadio had appalled digital rights campaigners, with one group - Big Brother Watch - claiming it was evidence that "big tech censorship is spiralling out of control".

The Google-owned service has issued a brief statement explaining its actions.

"TalkRadio's YouTube channel was briefly suspended, but upon further review, has now been reinstated," it said.

"We quickly remove flagged content that violate our community guidelines, including Covid-19 content that explicitly contradict expert consensus from local health authorities or the World Health Organization. We make exceptions for material posted with an educational, documentary, scientific or artistic purpose, as was deemed in this case."

 

[Kite159]

Piers Morgan is a disgraceful hypocrite - he hasn't practiced anything he has preached.

Real disappointing about TalkRadio getting a YouTube ban - I guess it is because they dared to question the narrative on lockdowns. To me, that seems like an attack on freedom of speech - if they had Piers Corbyn presenting their shows, I'd get it but their presenters even mentioned several times that they aren't denying COVID, just questioning the restrictions and have shut down some of the wackjobs. I don't see why YouTube felt the need to do this.

Didn't he get caught out last month by not wearing a mask in a place where he was meant to be wearing one? Or am I thinking about another TV personality?

 

[Scotrail12]

Didn't he get caught out last month by not wearing a mask in a place where he was meant to be wearing one? Or am I thinking about another TV personality?

Dr. Hilary Jones was the one from GMB caught out not wearing a mask. I think Gary Lineker was another maskless one as well.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Didn't he get caught out last month by not wearing a mask in a place where he was meant to be wearing one? Or am I thinking about another TV personality?

I think he did so, specifically in a taxi. He also went on holiday to the Caribbean, which while allowed at the time (I think), wasn't in keeping with advice to avoid international travel.

Neither of which are crimes of the century, but definitely hypocrisy of the highest order.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Youtube have "u-turned":

TalkRadio: YouTube reverses decision to ban channel

YouTube says the broadcaster posted banned Covid content, but it has decided to reinstate its channel.

www.bbc.co.uk

Maybe somebody suggested to them that banning a channel they deem to be giving airtime to conspiracy theorists would in fact lead to such people saying ‘see, now they’re banning anyone who mentions The Great Reset’ ?

 

[hst43102]

Maybe somebody suggested to them that banning a channel they deem to be giving airtime to conspiracy theorists would in fact lead to such people saying ‘see, now they’re banning anyone who mentions The Great Reset’ ?

No explanation or apology from YouTube yet...

 

[brad465]

A sad state of affairs that for all the trouble the unrest in the US is causing, its major prominence in the news and appearance on many front pages tomorrow has taken the edge off Covid being dominant for now.

 

[bramling]

A sad state of affairs that for all the trouble the unrest in the US is causing, its major prominence in the news and appearance on many front pages tomorrow has taken the edge off Covid being dominant for now.

To be honest it’s been a refreshing change.

I am slightly cynical about all the people berating Trump though, as (whilst Trump isn’t in any way my cup of tea) many of the people moaning about him failing to accept the election result are the self-same ones who have failed to accept referendum results relating to Scottish independence, Corbyn’s 2019 election defeat, and of course Brexit. What is going on in America today is actually probably far more concerning for the medium-term than Covid, or at least if Covid wasn’t attracting the irrational response it seems to be.

It perhaps all points to a wider trend where people seek news, view and opinions which match and reinforce their own, rather than looking at an argument and forming their own balanced conclusion. There’s definite parallels between this and the Covid hysteria.

 

[brad465]

To be honest it’s been a refreshing change.

I am slightly cynical about all the people berating Trump though, as (whilst Trump isn’t in any way my cup of tea) many of the people moaning about him failing to accept the election result are the self-same ones who have failed to accept referendum results relating to Scottish independence, Corbyn’s 2019 election defeat, and of course Brexit. What is going on in America today is actually probably far more concerning for the medium-term than Covid, or at least if Covid wasn’t attracting the irrational response it seems to be.

It perhaps all points to a wider trend where people seek news, view and opinions which match and reinforce their own, rather than looking at an argument and forming their own balanced conclusion. There’s definite parallels between this and the Covid hysteria.

Yes what's happened there tonight is the product of a deeply divided country where divisions and blaming other groups in society has come to a violent head. I'm currently trying to think of sensible arguments to tell others who want to blame other groups for the whole Covid situation of the dangers of creating deeper divisions, citing the US unrest as a good warning.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Yes what's happened there tonight is the product of a deeply divided country where divisions and blaming other groups in society has come to a violent head. I'm currently trying to think of sensible arguments to tell others who want to blame other groups for the whole Covid situation of the dangers of creating deeper divisions, citing the US unrest as a good warning.

Interesting (if slightly off-topic) post on Twitter...


If you go into the desert and catch 100 red fire ants, then catch 100 large black ants, and put them in a jar, at first, nothing will happen.

However, if you put a lid on the jar, shake it violently, and then put the ants on the ground, they will fight furiously, until they eventually kill each other.

The thing is, the red ants think the black ants are the enemy, and vice-versa... when, in fact, the REAL enemy is the person who shook the jar.

This is what is happening in our country right now.

Remain vs Leave.
Pro-lockdown vs Freedom.
Pro-mask vs anti-mask.

The real question we should be asking ourselves is actually

WHO’S SHAKING THE JAR... AND WHY ?

 

[brad465]

Interesting (if slightly off-topic) post on Twitter...


If you go into the desert and catch 100 red fire ants, then catch 100 large black ants, and put them in a jar, at first, nothing will happen.

However, if you put a lid on the jar, shake it violently, and then put the ants on the ground, they will fight furiously, until they eventually kill each other.

The thing is, the red ants think the black ants are the enemy, and vice-versa... when, in fact, the REAL enemy is the person who shook the jar.

This is what is happening in our country right now.

Remain vs Leave.
Pro-lockdown vs Freedom.
Pro-mask vs anti-mask.

The real question we should be asking ourselves is actually

WHO’S SHAKING THE JAR... AND WHY ?

There'll be several answers to that last question: the Government trying to prevent opposition uniting against them, the media themselves selling divisive sensationalist stories for profit and also because they're usually owned by super rich tax dodgers who don't want their rich antics reported on, and then also some systemic attitudes around consumerism-driven behaviour in which the public are made to think for themselves before others, which explains the Covid-induced panic buying.

 

[wireforever]

Two phrases used by sky this morning repeatedly 'due to covid' and 'I fully understand my reponsibilities' when people do not abide by the latest guidelines/lockdown the second phrase is continually posted by celebs and footballers on social media when they break covid rules and are caught out

 

[brad465]

Yes what's happened there tonight is the product of a deeply divided country where divisions and blaming other groups in society has come to a violent head. I'm currently trying to think of sensible arguments to tell others who want to blame other groups for the whole Covid situation of the dangers of creating deeper divisions, citing the US unrest as a good warning.

To be honest it’s been a refreshing change.

I am slightly cynical about all the people berating Trump though, as (whilst Trump isn’t in any way my cup of tea) many of the people moaning about him failing to accept the election result are the self-same ones who have failed to accept referendum results relating to Scottish independence, Corbyn’s 2019 election defeat, and of course Brexit. What is going on in America today is actually probably far more concerning for the medium-term than Covid, or at least if Covid wasn’t attracting the irrational response it seems to be.

It perhaps all points to a wider trend where people seek news, view and opinions which match and reinforce their own, rather than looking at an argument and forming their own balanced conclusion. There’s definite parallels between this and the Covid hysteria.

I managed to post the following text on my Facebook timeline which seems to be doing okay; it focuses on why I think the US mess happened but did cite divisions in our Covid handling and also used "media agendas" as an example for systemic attitudes promoting division that needs combating:

"I don’t normally like to publicly comment on here about political issues, but on this occasion the need is too great to ignore:

What’s happened in the US is the product of a society driven by “divide and rule/conquer” in which division has been stoked by setting different groups against one another, usually by making different groups blame other groups for all the problems they see in their lives, allowing nasty powers that be to get away with bad things through distraction. The longer this continues, the more that tension builds up, risking escalation, which is exactly what we’ve just witnessed.

I don’t need to say what political issues over here have been divisive, but will also argue that our attitude to Covid handling is as divisive: different groups have blamed others in society as if they are entirely responsible for this situation, when actually it’s known that no single group, setting or activity is entirely responsible, but a combination of factors coming together.

Therefore, if anyone feels compelled to blame others, especially with use of petty insults, for issues they maybe experiencing, think twice. First find out the facts where possible, try to find reasonable solutions and be pragmatic, and challenge those with authority to make changes to society for the better. If we don’t and divisions continue to grow, it’s not beyond the bounds the scenes in the US are one day repeated here.

I think what we should be doing is challenging and changing the systemic attitudes in society that are imposed on us all to make us think and behave in certain ways in the first place (e.g. through consumerism, media agendas and advertising)."

 

[hst43102]

I managed to post the following text on my Facebook timeline which seems to be doing okay; it focuses on why I think the US mess happened but did cite divisions in our Covid handling and also used "media agendas" as an example for systemic attitudes promoting division that needs combating:

That's a great message for everyone. Thanks for posting that here!

 

[greyman42]

Two phrases used by sky this morning repeatedly 'due to covid' and 'I fully understand my reponsibilities' when people do not abide by the latest guidelines/lockdown the second phrase is continually posted by celebs and footballers on social media when they break covid rules and are caught out

Celebs, footballers and the like do not have any more responsibilities than any other member of the public. I fail to see why anyone would think otherwise.

 

[PHILIPE]

Two phrases used by sky this morning repeatedly 'due to covid' and 'I fully understand my reponsibilities' when people do not abide by the latest guidelines/lockdown the second phrase is continually posted by celebs and footballers on social media when they break covid rules and are caught out

They give me the impression that in their cases it is fine to break the rules so long as they apologise afterwards

 

[Yew]

I see that the media has already tried to turn the Briefing into a press conference on Donald Trump. Surely there are more relevant things to talk about, for example when restrictions can be lifted?

 

[yorksrob]

I see that the media has already tried to turn the Briefing into a press conference on Donald Trump. Surely there are more relevant things to talk about, for example when restrictions can be lifted?

Typical of the media. Why ask searching questions about the national crisis here, when they can posture about a foreign country for whom our opinions will be of no consequence anyway !