Media Coverage of COVID -19

[Sanatogen]

There is some suggestion that areas on the southeast may already have a significant proportion of herd immunity. (Which is not something one 'believes in' it's an epidemiological fact)

If we can't shield people for a short time, how can we expect to do it indefinitely? And even then, when did perfectly shielding 'everyone' become the aim? We're not trying to stop everyone dying, that'd be impossible. We're supposed to try and find a minimum point, where the sum of harms from covid, and the harms from the mitigations is minimal; unfortunately there is a very vocal crowd who want to defeat covid 'at all costs'.

A “suggestion” that areas “may” have herd immunity is now an epidemiological fact, gotcha.

In any case I was responding about the sage report and that I believe they are correct in their belief that aiming for herd immunity while shielding the vulnerable isn’t possible.

Edit; I now realise you meant herd immunity in and of itself is an epidemiological fact where as when I said “believe in” I meant the act of aiming for it and wether that was right or wrong.

Redirect Notice

 

[Cowley]

It’s probably worth mentioning at this point that care workers have been one of the sectors that seem to have been singled out as people that might be able to put their lives on hold while all of this passes.
Let’s examine that a bit more closely though.

I used to work in that sector
(thankfully for my own mental health I don’t anymore), but my daughter currently does now.
My observations are that you cannot expect people that are working on minimum wage to put their entire life on hold for no reward whatsoever to protect the vulnerable. They can only do so much as they have to think about themselves or they’ll not be in a position to step in and help others...

 

[initiation]

My observations are that you cannot expect people that are working on minimum wage to put their entire life on hold for no reward whatsoever to protect the vulnerable.

There is definitely something in this point however with the cost of the lockdown measures in the hundreds of billions there could easily be some money available to help those working in the care industry.

I mean even doubling their pay for the duration would be a miniscule amount compared to the costs of lockdowns.

 

[DustyBin]

There is definitely something in this point however with the cost of the lockdown measures in the hundreds of billions there could easily be some money available to help those working in the care industry.

I mean even doubling their pay for the duration would be a miniscule amount compared to the costs of lockdowns.

I’ll admit I hadn’t really thought about it, but I agree they should be rewarded for making the sacrifice. Not an easy job at the best of times....

 

[DB]

In any case I was responding about the sage report and that I believe they are correct in their belief that aiming for herd immunity while shielding the vulnerable isn’t possible.

So you think on-of-on-off lockdowns will mean it doesn't get to them anyway? The reality is that it will do - all this is doing is dragging out the process and causing massive other problems in society. Note that after 8 months of this, there is still no confirmed viable vaccine, no guarantee that there will be one, and if there is no guarantee when, or how long it will take to deploy.

And there is much more that could be done to protect those particualrly at risk in any case - e.g. issing them with medical-grade masks (and any carers), home deliveries, etc.

 

[Bantamzen]

Dr John Lee seems to always talk lots of sense.

Here he is on a recent Irish TV programme. The pro-lockdown guy looks completely unconvincing.

That was a fascinating debate, and adds to the growing body of evidence that lockdowns simply don't work.

 

[Richard Scott]

That was a fascinating debate, and adds to the growing body of evidence that lockdowns simply don't work.

Agree, the pro lockdown person looked out of his depth with poor answers and no real evidence. The other two were much more convincing, had facts to hand that they believed in.

 

[Class 33]

Anyone noticed The Mirror in particular tries to find any negative it can in the cases and deaths figures, for their headlines? For instance the headline they posted just now is "UK hospital Coronavirus death toll increases by 82 - more than DOUBLE the rise a fortnight ago". Other such examples they've used is something like "UK hospital Coronavirus death toll increases by 150 - FOUR times as much as it was 2 months ago.". They're at it every day with this technique, although on some days they're actually unable to find any negatives with the figures. When it was the other way around and deaths were going down every week, did they ever publish any headlines such as "UK Coronavirus death toll increases by 40 - less than HALF what it was a fortnight ago."? I don't think so!

 

[kez19]

It’s probably worth mentioning at this point that care workers have been one of the sectors that seem to have been singled out as people that might be able to put their lives on hold while all of this passes.
Let’s examine that a bit more closely though.

I used to work in that sector
(thankfully for my own mental health I don’t anymore), but my daughter currently does now.
My observations are that you cannot expect people that are working on minimum wage to put their entire life on hold for no reward whatsoever to protect the vulnerable. They can only do so much as they have to think about themselves or they’ll not be in a position to step in and help others...

Whilst I currently work as one, however it doesn't help when you have politicians at the start backing you (per se) and then not even less than that happy to throw you under a bus.

example in Scotland:

Jeane Freeman 'not informed' of care home Covid concerns as 'we failed some of our most vulnerable citizens'

Jeane Freeman was "not aware" of the major issues facing care homes in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, MPs have heard. The health secretary

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

The health secretary often seemed “not informed” about shortages in PPE, testing capacity and the concerns around care home guidance when Covid-19 hit.

“That was extremely concerning and I wondered why on earth she was not given that information and certainly when I gave her information things move very quickly.”

Scottish Tory health spokesman Donald Cameron MSP described the admission as “highly alarming”, adding: “This revelation suggests that the SNP health secretary herself was ignorant of important aspects of the public health response which she was meant to be running.”

Another:

Coronavirus: Health secretary signals care home review

Jeane Freeman said the coronavirus pandemic had "shone a light" on areas that needed improvement.

www.bbc.co.uk

Scotland's health secretary says there should be a review of social care in light of the devastation caused by coronavirus.
Jeane Freeman said that for now "the focus is on dealing with the pandemic" but it had "shone a light" on areas that needed to be improved.
It comes after it emerged there were 5,635 cases of suspected Covid-19 in Scotland's care homes as of 23 May.
Ms Freeman said the "mixed economy" of care home provision needed examined.
She said: "I think it is entirely right we review that - if it should be changed, then in what way - and in what way should that be funded."

At the time of the start of it I felt there was no support from either government (UK/Scottish), felt more as if left in the dark. My main argument in this was where the hell were you guys during it? (governments), it was left more to the Care Workers and homes themselves to work out a solution to it all but there was no strategy from higher up but still though no matter what has happened we'll still blame the care workers.

 

[Richard Scott]

Just been a phone in on radio two about restrictions, wasn't listening too carefully but seemed aimed at older age group, most of whom were saying they are fed up with all this. About time BBC gave some airtime to people who have a different opinion to the politicians.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The BBC does seem to have been getting a bit bolder in the last few days in terms of showing points of view which are in conflict with the Government line.

 

[duncanp]

The BBC does seem to have been getting a bit bolder in the last few days in terms of showing points of view which are in conflict with the Government line.

Now there's a surprise.

Who would have thought that the BBC would want to paint the government in a bad light?

 

[kez19]

The BBC does seem to have been getting a bit bolder in the last few days in terms of showing points of view which are in conflict with the Government line.

I wonder if the other media outlets will follow suit? ie STV in Scotland and Sky, possibly they are realising that the mood in public isn’t what they hoped for (drag it out more equals more doom and gloom), public turning on the governments slowly is backfiring?

 

[brad465]

Just been a phone in on radio two about restrictions, wasn't listening too carefully but seemed aimed at older age group, most of whom were saying they are fed up with all this. About time BBC gave some airtime to people who have a different opinion to the politicians.

The BBC does seem to have been getting a bit bolder in the last few days in terms of showing points of view which are in conflict with the Government line.

Yes the 83 year old on the news, we've regularly recalled here, as saying she "don't give a sod" and looking out for young people is an example of the BBC giving airtime to such views. Furthermore on Question Time last week, there was a question about how likely the rules would be followed given there's no end in sight, with a number of virtual audience members citing mental health concerns they had or knew of relatives having such health problems.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Just been a phone in on radio two about restrictions, wasn't listening too carefully but seemed aimed at older age group, most of whom were saying they are fed up with all this. About time BBC gave some airtime to people who have a different opinion to the politicians.

I know Jeremy Vine is increasingly opposed to restrictions (on twitter at least), and I believe he's on around this time of day on Radio 2. So some of it may have been down to the presenter.

 

[Richard Scott]

I know Jeremy Vine is increasingly opposed to restrictions (on twitter at least), and I believe he's on around this time of day on Radio 2. So some of it may have been down to the presenter.

Wasn't Jeremy Vine today, was a female presenter. He's changed his tune then? Thought he was in favour or have I got that wrong? Admittedly it's not something I usually listen to as normally at work.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Wasn't Jeremy Vine today, was a female presenter. He's changed his tune then? Thought he was in favour or have I got that wrong? Admittedly it's not something I usually listen to as normally at work.

He often has an expert on his radio show - Dr Sarah jarvis. She is very much pro hard lockdown.
I assume Vanessa feltz was sitting in today

 

[Richard Scott]

He often has an expert on his radio show - Dr Sarah jarvis. She is very much pro hard lockdown.
I assume Vanessa feltz was sitting in today

Another expert, don't you just love them?
Yes, it was Vanessa Feltz.

 

[Wychwood93]

Sarah Jarvis must be earning more at the moment from being on TV than from being a GP. Just a thought.

 

[AM9]

Sarah Jarvis must be earning more at the moment from being on TV than from being a GP. Just a thought.

She earns more from being a director of Patient Access than she does from being a GP.

 

[Andyh82]

The BBC does seem to have been getting a bit bolder in the last few days in terms of showing points of view which are in conflict with the Government line.

They do that a lot, it’s just usually along the lines of the measures aren’t enough, were too late, should be brought into line with Scotland or Wales, rather than scrapping any measures

And it’s pretty standard that whatever the angle of story 1, it’ll be the complete opposite angle in story 2

You’ll get something like
‘Manchester goes into Tier 3, but pubs and businesses aren’t happy.. also tonight pressure on the government to introduce a full lockdown..’

Or ‘Demand for more funding for businesses in Tier 3 areas.. also tonight government borrowing is the highest since records began..’

 

[Richard Scott]

Have noticed a few media reports today showing issues with restrictions. Even the program on Paddington station they mentioned they'd noticed an increase in suicide attempts since restrictions came in (can't remember exact wording if someone can clarify it for me).

 

[Andyh82]

My local paper are obsessed with Tier 3 so keep tweeting articles every few hours, along the lines of

“Here are the areas that could go into Tier 3”
“Will our area be the next to go into Tier 3”
“As deaths increase, Is Tier 3 around the corner”
“Our area could go into Tier 3 this week”

You get the idea

 

[brad465]

There's a lot of coverage on tomorrow's front pages about Tory MPs in the North demanding more help and an exit strategy:

 

[Bantamzen]

Its not just the printed media that is getting restless, even the BBC News, or at least some of their presenters are getting rebellious.

Victoria Derbyshire sorry for Christmas rule-breaking comments

The presenter previously said she would break Covid rules so her family could spend Christmas together.

www.bbc.co.uk

Victoria Derbyshire has said she would break the rule of six to enable her family to celebrate Christmas.
The BBC presenter said her family of seven knew the risks and would be "sensible" and buy a thermometer gun.
She told the Radio Times she felt irresponsible for considering it, but thought many others felt the same way.
Derbyshire has a family of four plus her mum, her mum's partner and her husband's dad. It is not clear if the rule of six will apply at Christmas.
"If the rule of six is still in place... we're breaking it to have the rule of seven. We just are," the journalist said.
"It's fine. We'll do it knowing what the risks are. We're not stupid.
"We're going to be sensible and buy a thermometer gun. But we have to be together at Christmas.

"It feels almost irresponsible saying that, but I don't think we're alone in feeling that way.
"We need to see my elderly mum and my husband's elderly dad. We just do."
She added that her mum lives in Bolton while she lives in London, so she hadn't been able to see her regularly during the lockdown.
Bolton is currently under tier three coronavirus restrictions, while London is in tier two.

This article made it to to BBC News landing page, so she can't be alone. And has anyone noticed that the Breakfast presenters have been slowly reducing the gap between them? At the start they were practically falling off the edges of the sofa, but more recently have taken to moving closer & closer.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This "story" sounds like a ready made excuse for the BBC to advertise this week's issue of the "Radio Times". As if?!

 

[kristiang85]

She's now had to apologise and say that she will be keeping to the rule of 6. Obviously the boss has had a word...

Also the MSM are all pedalling a story today saying that antibodies fade quickly (a study from our old friends at Imperial, of course!) and that is a blow to herd immunity. Yet there's no mention of other body defences (eg t cells) and of course how they expect vaccines to work if this is the case...

Project fear is trying to get back on the rails it seems.

Edit: an example from Sky https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...tibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510 (sorry BBC wouldn't let me copy from their app on my phone)

Hopes that the population will become immune to COVID-19 have been dashed by new research showing antibodies fall rapidly after recovering from the disease.

So-called herd immunity has been proposed by some scientists as a better alternative to lockdowns in tackling the coronavirus pandemic.


It would require around 50-60% of the population to have protection against the virus so it could no longer transmit efficiently.

However, a major UK study has found that rather than building immunity over time, the number of people with antibodies has fallen by 26% since lockdown was eased over the summer.

Researchers from Imperial College London screened 365,000 people over three rounds of testing between June and September.

We should also note this is not peer reviewed.

 

[Bantamzen]

She's now had to apologise and say that she will be keeping to the rule of 6. Obviously the boss has had a word...

Also the MSM are all pedalling a story today saying that antibodies fade quickly (a study from our old friends at Imperial, of course!) and that is a blow to herd immunity. Yet there's no mention of other body defences (eg t cells) and of course how they expect vaccines to work if this is the case...

Project fear is trying to get back on the rails it seems.

I have just watched the Beeb trot out a professor who was quite happy to spread the bad news that antibodies don't always remain in our systems after a infection, but strangely left out how this might effect a vaccine but also left out any discussion about T-cells. Its sad to see well educated people peddling pop-science on live television.

 

[Richard Scott]

I have just watched the Beeb trot out a professor who was quite happy to spread the bad news that antibodies don't always remain in our systems after a infection, but strangely left out how this might effect a vaccine but also left out any discussion about T-cells. Its sad to see well educated people peddling pop-science on live television.

Sounds like an episode of 'History Today' from Newman and Baddiel, for those who remember it?

 

[yorkie]

She's now had to apologise and say that she will be keeping to the rule of 6. Obviously the boss has had a word...

Also the MSM are all pedalling a story today saying that antibodies fade quickly (a study from our old friends at Imperial, of course!) and that is a blow to herd immunity. Yet there's no mention of other body defences (eg t cells) and of course how they expect vaccines to work if this is the case...

Project fear is trying to get back on the rails it seems.

I don't know what MSM is (if you can edit your post to include a link and quote that would be great, thanks) but BBC are misleading people with this story too:

Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection'

This is likely to mean immunity levels decline and raises the risk of reinfection, researchers say.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

This was entirely predictable, given what we know about antibodies.

The fall was greater in those over 65, compared with younger age groups, and in those without symptoms compared with those with full-blown Covid-19.

Well, this is obvious too! Those with mild or no symptoms (i.e. the majority) do not develop a strong antibody response; younger people are much more likely to be able to fight off the virus using T-cells, they may not realise they ever had the virus, and an antibody test may not pick anything up. We already know this. However the BBC are misrepresenting the facts.

Exactly what the antibody drop means for immunity is still uncertain. There are other parts of the immune system, such as T-cells, which may also play a role.

Perhaps the BBC would like to inform us the Pope "may" be Catholic?

However, the researchers warn antibodies tend to be highly predictive of who is protected.

Because you can't easily test for T-cell immunity.

I don't know if Ferguson has anything to do with this or not, but his association with Imperial, combined with the misleading information being spouted, has tainted my opinion on Imperial.

As for the BBC, they produce some good articles, but most on the subject of Sars-Cov-2 err on the side of scaremongering. Shame on the BBC.