McNulty Report

[Metroland]

As a very rough approximation, I would say, less than 20k is working class wages

20k and above is definitely middle class. That said, many clerical jobs, which would have in the past been considered middle class would now pay around £15k, many working class jobs such as railway guards which only need a few weeks of training, are paying the same as middle managers in many companies which may need a university degree.

One of the chief criticisms about rail subsidy is that it is used to fund services that are mainly used by the better off. Although, of course, London commuting distorts this, and rail tends to have large modal shares into city centres where the good jobs are.

But very many people, especially those that cannot afford cars, and dependent on the railways. It is simply not fair to keep jacking up fares to pay the wages of people, some of whom are on an ideological war.

 

[Zoe]

I'd describe a Guard on approx £25,000 as Middle Class.

Those on minimum wage in the UK don't have Bob Crow fighting their corner...

Yes but any guards that are made redundant due to this DOO policy may well end up on the minimum wage if they get a job at all. As I said, these days it's very difficult to get a job in an area you don't have previous experience in. The only types of jobs where this isn't needed are usually unskilled minimum wage jobs.

 

[Metroland]

, how much is one life worth? would love to know the answer to that

Life does have a cost, which is around £1million on the railways. While this is an emotive issue, the world (and the railways) simply does not have unlimited resources, so we can throw any amount of money at things. The railways, like aviation, industry and the roads have to be 'safe enough'.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

As a very rough approximation, I would say, less than 20k is working class wages

20k and above is definitely middle class. That said, many clerical jobs, which would have in the past been considered middle class would now pay around £15k, many working class jobs such as railway guards which only need a few weeks of training, are paying the same as middle managers in many companies which may need a university degree.

One of the chief criticisms about rail subsidy is that it is used to fund services that are mainly used by the better off. Although, of course, London commuting distorts this, and rail tends to have large modal shares into city centres where the good jobs are.

But very many people, especially those that cannot afford cars, and dependent on the railways. It is simply not fair to keep jacking up fares to pay the wages of people, some of whom are on an ideological war.

b**ocks lol a few weeks training eh? A Guard is not classed as FULLY COMPETENT for TWO Years basic training with routes etc is usually around 4 months (varies from depot to depot) Metroland you seem to be the one on an "ideological war" so to speak
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Life does have a cost, which is around £1million on the railways. While this is an emotive issue, the world (and the railways) simply does not have unlimited resources, so we can throw any amount of money at things. The railways, like aviation, industry and the roads have to be 'safe enough'.

so when someone gets killed by an unsafe practice will you knock on that persons families door and say "sorry about your loss but it was only worth a million and we managed to safe 100k"? are you an accountant or something as you seem g8 to quote figures etc. but always misses the mark when it comes to the true cost of what you quote

 

[Goldfish62]

This is a very valid point, and one which needs examining. I've often thought the same. As I understand it, the DDA essentially requires that, eventually, anybody in a wheelchair can arrive at a station and use a train service in exactly the same way that an able-bodied customer would, including being provided with whatever assistance is reasonably needed. So yes, how exactly will this happen?

The obvious answer would be for the Driver to do it, but I think it extremely unlikely that Drivers will be comfortable with the idea of leaving the cab to do this whenever required. Whilst the burden of DOO etc may be imposed upon them regardless of what they may or may not think, you can bet your bottom dollar they will argue hard as hell that they are Drivers not customer service staff, if the railway starts trying it's luck with that sort of stunt.

Any implementation of DOO is unlikely to be immediate, regardless of what the report may suggest. It can't just be imposed overnight, as there simply isn't the infrastructure in place to enable this. The current widespread ex-BR generation of suburban multiple units aren't currently set up for it, and even those which have their original DOO kit still in place (some of FGW's recently acquired 150/1's still have live door release buttons on the desk) would need significant modification to bring it up to acceptable, workable, modern day standards. This means taking trains out of service to develop and install upgraded equipment, which most TOC's won't be happy doing. It also means spending yet more money on increasingly ageing trains. You would then need to fit banks of monitors to each and every station platform for Drivers to observe the train doors, along with their associated camera systems. Plus a wide range of other issues, such as re-engineering the multitude of various platform or trackside equipment at certain locations such as TRS plungers etc which Guards operate or are involved in operating, and so on.

All of this would cost an enormous sum of money, on top of the even larger sum payable to the thousands of affected Guards who would face redundancy, and who would then cost the state a fortune by turning up en masse at their local Job Centres. Once the new system of operation came in, there would be an immediate and dramatic fall in revenue, due to the obvious mentality of many passengers that there is longer any 'need' to purchase a ticket. No matter how high the penalty fare might be, under DOO there will always be a high percentage who take the chance and don't pay. All in all, this would leave the railway with a huge outlay followed by significantly reduced income with which to recoup those losses, all in the name of efficiency. I think that's known as a 'False Economy'!

But on some lines it could I would have thought be introduced fairly cheaply and quickly. For example Waterloo and Clapham Junction and no doubt other larger SWT stations are still fitted with door close and train start indicators. Also I believe 455s and 458s are equipped for DOO without the need for modification.

 

[Metroland]

@ANORTHERNGUARD

And as usual people get rude and personal, which is why I don't use this forum very much.

I'm sorry if you do not like the fact life does have a cost and the railways need to get more efficient. I feel sorry for people that this may adversely effect, but you have been warned for many years that the gravy train is coming to a halt, or at least slowing down. I'm just amazed at the arrogance of those that think the railways are a special case, above just about every other area of the economy.

The McNulty report has identified staff cost and practices as one of the barriers to efficiency, I'm sorry you do not like the truth, but it is something that many of us that have worked for the industry (and indeed many outside it) have known for a very long time.

It's a shame we cannot have a grown up discussion about how to reduce those costs, instead as usual, the Unions and others will reduce the argument to emotive ideologue which serves no purpose other than to prolong something that will one day have to be faced whether you like it or not.

Finally, it is not 'down to the Tories', that is had to happen. I count myself as reasonably A-political. Labour, not the Tories, commission the report, because the investment in rail seems to disappear into a black hole. There is a public and political consensus the railways are getting too expensive and it is naive to suggest it can carry on and everyone from the platform to the boardroom will have to play their part.

It's not like the railways are alone in needing to make cuts, just about every other area of the economy is having to because there is no more money.

Guards training is a few weeks (or should be), McNulty cites 35 days for conductors.

A typical TOC would provide training for other staff:
• conductors – 35 days;
• retail – 12 days; and
• train dispatch/platforms – 7 days.

yet

Salaries in the industry have grown faster than average earnings, while certain salaries have risen at rates in excess of inflation. The Study has also identified that some salaries are higher than those found in comparative employment.

The Study has found that average salaries among passenger TOCs have increased from £29k in 1996/07 to £39k in 2008/09. The highest salary increases occurred in operations staff, a category dominated by drivers.

Even Drivers take no more than a year, and signallers in the busiest and busiest PSBs are no more than 14 months, and both the latter positions require far more rules knowledge and experience than guards. The route knowledge is not especially detailed or special, considering many enthusiasts actually have much the same knowledge for very large parts of the network, bar maybe some items in the sectional appendix than can be learnt in a few days at most.

 

[ukrob]

Anyways lol regarding these so called savings why do the Tories always like to cull the railways, they did it with the farce that was Privatisation now they are attempting to do it with the McNulty report

Double check who commissioned the report please.

the people inside the industry know the true cost, some people on here are more than happy to see 20/30,000 people lose their jobs, hang your heads in shame

Nobody is 'happy' to see thousands of people lose their jobs. Stop trying to be emotive.

I was brought up in the 80's and saw first hand the damage they did to my fathers industry, you mention Safety Vs. Cost, one question, how much is one life worth? would love to know the answer to that

Of course there is no figure - but of course there is also a balance somewhere. There are not unlimited amounts of money on the planet. If the figure was unlimited you would have staff at every foot crossing for example.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Metroland it is not personal, but you just go on about figures you never seem to mention the humAn cost to the thousands of lives that would be affected by some of these proposals the knock on would be 100+ thousand people would be affected, yes there does have to be change to some practices, fair enough (and yes I know Labour commisioned the report) but it was never envisaged to practically decapitate the railway as the Tories love to do.certain things make sense but up here in pacerland how much would the cost actually be? you would need either new units or spend millions on upgrading, then there is cctv /mirrors/barriers etc. at every station, then what about the actyual passengers? you ask the passengers what they would think about DOO up here, most would be shocked, fares would still rise and the only people benefitting would be the TOC's and Drivers in pure profit NOT savings
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also the times quoted are for basic training only as already mentioned. its 3 years before a Driver is on full Money (I beieve like Guards it takes 2 years for full competency) the days quoted for Guards training is so incorrect it is laughable it takes on avg 4 months for rules traction and routes, McNulty has no idea how a railway works anywhere North of Birmingham, the practices he quotes are just not compatible (for quite a few years anyway) up here, that is a FACT I have no doubt one day it will come but not for a long while yet

 

[yorksrob]

One of the chief criticisms about rail subsidy is that it is used to fund services that are mainly used by the better off. Although, of course, London commuting distorts this, and rail tends to have large modal shares into city centres where the good jobs are.

I would say that that's one of the bits where the report gets itself in a bit of a muddle. If you look at the parts of the railway which have traditionally been subsidised, i.e. the rural and non-London urban areas, these services attract a far wider range of the public than just commuters. Even the Inter-City sector tends to attract a fairly wide range of clientelle due to advanced purchase.

True, South Eastern commuters tend to be more made up of your business types, but then again, the south eastern sector can sometimes break even (at least in terms of operating costs).

NcNulty is taking aim at the subsidy for the rural and non-London urban areas which do serve a wider range of the population, whilst doing little to address why the South East and Inter City sectors do (In many cases, not all) need subsidy. He will be making the railway more exclusive.

I suspect that those DFT stats comparing the proportion of journeys by different forms of transport are partly to blame, since they show road transport for all the pootling journeys to the shops and dropping the kids off at school, but they do not show the equivilent journeys by foot or bycicle. Naturally this vastly inflates the importance of road transport.

 

[Zoe]

In the future though when the average person can't afford a car, rail will be a service used by the majority of people.

 

[Metroland]

@northern guard

Well McNulty mentioned profit, and said the total profits in the rail industry amount to some £400 million or around 3% of turnover. This is wafer thin, barely enough to get any sort of meaningful return and explains why the government still has top put in so much money. As a comparison, even large 'ultra efficient' companies like supermarkets would expect far more than 3%, more like 20%.

Nevertheless, with the correct mechanisms from Government, when so much public money is at stake, there should be a way to claw back the money to reduce overall rail subsidy and/or ticket prices. I am against too much profiteering in any walk of life, not just the railways. Profit in itself is not a bad thing, it encourages investment, but too much profit is usually the result of imbalances in markets.

On the human cost, as I have said, all staff should be qualified enough so they can take, or choose to take, other jobs in the rail industry. Indeed, take a Guards position. You should have some sort of transferable qualification to enable you take take up a responsible retail position, say a shop manager, supervisor and so on or work for another rail company, say you could get sponsorship for a trainee driver. Instead, Government have failed in this respect, because when industry does need to modernise far too many people are thrown on the scrap heap without the qualifications or knowledge to do much else, costing our economy dearly.

 

[tbtc]

22.3k in Northern land tbtc, and I didnt have it handed to me on a plate either, I have been paid minimum wage, I have done jobs that most people would turn their noses up to pay the bills, I worked damn hard to get where I am now and proud of it, I have always worked and always pay my way, I have a battered 10yo car and can just afford to go on a summer holiday with my wife and kids, i'm working class and proud of it

Believe me, I earn under £22,300 (after over a decade of working full time), as do many, we don't have a car either.

Then again, some of the problems identified in the report aren't necessarily about the headline rate of pay that some in the industry get, but about the "old fashioned" working practices/ overtime arrangements etc which all add up.

 

[Metroland]

I suspect that those DFT stats comparing the proportion of journeys by different forms of transport are partly to blame, since they show road transport for all the pootling journeys to the shops and dropping the kids off at school, but they do not show the equivilent journeys by foot or bycicle. Naturally this vastly inflates the importance of road transport.

Very much so, indeed much of the growth of road transport is simply down to less walking and cycling, and poor planning meaning cities are less walkable or built around public transport. Not only is this unsustainable in terms of fuel, pollution, congestion, public health and so on, is actually can make the quality of life poorer as cities are for cars instead of people and become actually less convenient.

I especially dislike the quote rail is only 7% of passenger KM, which seems to convince some people typical modal shares are much less. Yes, in very rural areas rail is not very important, but it many cities, and between cities, it's vital. There are 24 times more roads than railways, so there is always going to be more road transport, although this doesn't have to be by car.

 

[jon0844]

While DOO has potential problems, when I can see dispatchers not properly looking before allowing a train to proceed, I think that perhaps a modern train with CCTV and screens inside the cab to allow the driver to make a safe decision him/herself may actually be safer anyway.

However, as a passenger, I would prefer to see staff on the train - especially at certain times (night, weekends full of trouble makers) but given my line has been DOO for as long as I've used it, I'm used to staff appearances being random - and only revenue people who aren't really interested in security.

I do think that station/train staffing should be thought of as a 'loss leader' and made a requirement, if only for security, which is then funded by the Government (i.e. us) but the pay for some would no doubt have to fall. That said, they must be a minimum. It also makes sense to offer other incentives, like many businesses do, like free travel in the case of the railway. Such perks cost little, but effectively bump up the pay.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The only actual "qualification" as such that I have seen regarding my employment was the NVQ which Northern did briefly (sadly no longer), Every point I seem to read regarding the McNumpty (sorry McNulty) report just would not work up here, just for sheer scale of cost to implement the measures is prohibitive one thing that does get me is when he goes on about Salaries rising faster than other industries, he didn't mention how LOW they were on the 80s Early 90s, it was Privatisation that started the ball rolling on that one as TOC's tried to poach the best staff etc for there own TOC's Virgin poached alot of Drivers, this will always be an emotive issue, I make NO apologies for being emotive as I am here for the long haul, but I do apoogise if you felt I was being rude to you @Metroland as it was not my intent

 

[tbtc]

Well McNulty mentioned profit, and said the total profits in the rail industry amount to some £400 million or around 3% of turnover. This is wafer thin, barely enough to get any sort of meaningful return and explains why the government still has top put in so much money. As a comparison, even large 'ultra efficient' companies like supermarkets would expect far more than 3%, more like 20%

I think First/ Stagecoach look for around 15% return on bus services, in contrast.

I should also point out that of course people have to put some price on a human life in safety calculations, otherwise we'd have ten members of staff on trains "just in case". Similarly, air safety is dependant upon a certain cost. There's always a cost/benefit ratio for these things, just not one that is widely publicised.

Also, worth mentioning that there are other costs on top of salary. A guard earning mid-twenties (in terms of thousand) is probably also going to get around £4,000 in pension contributions from their employer, making the total "cost" closer to £30,000 (compared to most in the private sector who'll only get a 3% pension contribution from their employer). All adds up...
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The only actual "qualification" as such that I have seen regarding my employment was the NVQ which Northern did briefly (sadly no longer), Every point I seem to read regarding the McNumpty (sorry McNulty) report just would not work up here, just for sheer scale of cost to implement the measures is prohibitive one thing that does get me is when he goes on about Salaries rising faster than other industries, he didn't mention how LOW they were on the 80s Early 90s, it was Privatisation that started the ball rolling on that one as TOC's tried to poach the best staff etc for there own TOC's Virgin poached alot of Drivers, this will always be an emotive issue, I make NO apologies for being emotive as I am here for the long haul, but I do apoogise if you felt I was being rude to you @Metroland as it was not my intent

Funnily enough, privatisation has been a wonderful thing for trades unions in the railways, its given them a clout that has enabled them to get their members significant wage rises, comfortably into the middle class

 

[ANorthernGuard]

to be fair most TrainCrew HAVE to have a car to get to and from work as Staff Trains are a thing of the past and buses rarely run at 2.30am-4.30am (just the nature of the job) (and the costs for running a car are getting a tad ridiculous)
like everyone else people in my grade and lower are struggling but Drivers wages always seem to go up and up (37k for Northern Drivers) when I started there was a 5k gap now its 15k.

 

[Aictos]

Even Drivers take no more than a year, and signallers in the busiest and busiest PSBs are no more than 14 months

What tripe! It's takes much longer then that to train drivers especially when you have to consider the training period where they learn the routes and traction followed by a period of time where they're kept a eye on as they're newly qualified and are still learning much like when you first pass your driving test and you hit the motorway for the first time you're still learning after which, you're free pretty much to get on with it.

No doubt, it's similar for the guards?

The route knowledge is not especially detailed or special, considering many enthusiasts actually have much the same knowledge for very large parts of the network, bar maybe some items in the sectional appendix than can be learnt in a few days at most.

This has got to be sarcastic, the route knowledge is a hell of a lot more detailed then you think - train crew need to know every speed restriction, line speeds, signals, tunnels, stations etc...It's a damn sight more detailed then some enthusiast thinking they know the route when they only know the odd station etc...

I travel up and down the ECML nearly every day BUT you won't see me stating that I've got better route knowledge then traincrew nor claim that it's not that hard to learn the route.

I will admit I've learnt to notice landmarks and from that, work out where I am but I haven't a clue about finer details of the route.

What this report ought to have picked up on is why do certain projects are priced so high when others priced them much lower as a example, take the Wrexham to Bidston line which ought to be electrified and handed over to Merseyrail - why has Network Rail priced it at £207 million when a independent survey undertaken for Merseyrail priced it at £66 million - this was back in 2008.

That's the question what people ought to be asking!

 

[Zoe]

to be fair most TrainCrew HAVE to have a car to get to and from work as Staff Trains are a thing of the past and buses rarely run at 2.30am-4.30am (just the nature of the job) (and the costs for running a car are getting a tad ridiculous)
like everyone else people in my grade and lower are struggling but Drivers wages always seem to go up and up (37k for Northern Drivers) when I started there was a 5k gap now its 15k.

London Underground used to run a staff taxi service. This wasn't door to door but would take staff from where they worked to a station on the network. I don't know if this still runs but couldn't something like that be used for NR?

 

[Captain Chaos]

London Underground used to run a staff taxi service. This wasn't door to door but would take staff from where they worked to a station on the network. I don't know if this still runs but couldn't something like that be used for NR?

A nice idea but what possible use would this be if when you arrive at said station at say 01:00 the next service isn't until 06:00?

As I have always been told by my superiors: 'It is your responsibility to get to work. Not the companies.'

 

[2Dogbox]

Time for me to add my bit. . .
The most worrying aspect of this report is the section on implementation of DOO. This is going to create the most problems as far as I can see, and yes I am a guard.

Where I work in Lincolnshire I just cannot see how DOO can be implemented within the timescales set out in this report. The report also contradicts itself by listing the amount of booking offices that should be closed. The passengers are going to have a truly dreadful service at say somewhere like Spalding where there will be no booking office and just a TVM, and then a driver only train. The implications for passenger security and customer service is dire.

And some of the posters who have said "its time to get off the gravy train" for us being on such high pay I have this response. .. Yes I do agree that my salary of £24000 is very good, but it is worth taking into account the amount of unsociable hours and abuse we sometimes have to get. . Apart from that while I am happy with my pay of course i did NOT go into the railway ten years ago because of the pay, I went into working in the rail industry because it was something I always wanted to do.

I am hoping that this report turns out to be a white elephant. As I can imagine the consequences if this is put into real practice.

ALSEF will not want drivers taking on extra responsibilities and RMT will not want us guards being at best become glorifies ATE's or at worst made redundant.

I know we have to move with the times, but removing staff is not the way to do it!

 

[Metroland]

What tripe! It's takes much longer then that to train drivers especially when you have to consider the training period where they learn the routes and traction followed by a period of time where they're kept a eye on as they're newly qualified and are still learning much like when you first pass your driving test and you hit the motorway for the first time you're still learning after which, you're free pretty much to get on with it.

No doubt, it's similar for the guards?

McNulty cites 8-12 month for Drivers, which is about the same for a first officer on an airline. I agree, like most jobs, the real learning starts after qualification. The point I am making is there are making barriers to entry and transference in the rail industry, and this can sometimes be the fault of the unions because of past agreements and practices.

This has got to be sarcastic, the route knowledge is a hell of a lot more detailed then you think - train crew need to know every speed restriction, line speeds, signals, tunnels, stations etc...It's a damn sight more detailed then some enthusiast thinking they know the route when they only know the odd station etc...

I travel up and down the ECML nearly every day BUT you won't see me stating that I've got better route knowledge then traincrew nor claim that it's not that hard to learn the route.

I will admit I've learnt to notice landmarks and from that, work out where I am but I haven't a clue about finer details of the route.

No I am not being sarcastic, many enthusiasts know the locations of tunnels, stations, the overall line speeds, viaducts and other info concerning a large number of routes. Beyond that it depends how interested you are. For example, many routes I know the location of signals, junctions, even when they were commissioned even and what was there before, who controls certain areas, the sort of timetables in operation, not just the ECML but all over the country, and I know I am not exceptional. Though I know people with maps of many routes throughout the country and sectional appendixes, backing up mental gaps.

In other words, I do have an appreciation of what route knowledge is, and what it consists of and when I see people talk of it as a very special skill, I would politely disagree. Very indepth knowledge of the location of EACH signal and junction speed comes with practice and that would be mainly held by drivers.

 

[Zoe]

A nice idea but what possible use would this be if when you arrive at said station at say 01:00 the next service isn't until 06:00?

It would make no difference. The taxi is to get you from work to the station where you would during the day get the train to.

 

[Mojo]

London Underground used to run a staff taxi service. This wasn't door to door but would take staff from where they worked to a station on the network. I don't know if this still runs but couldn't something like that be used for NR?

You are right about this and yes, they still run. There is a schedule (rather like an omnibus timetable) for all the locations it calls at and there are a huge number of schedules and connections between taxis at various points. They only run as required though so have to be booked in advance.

They are only available for the extreme shifts and can be used by all staff (even managers) who have to reach a specific location at a specific time.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

McNulty cites 8-12 month for Drivers, which is about the same for a first officer on an airline. I agree, like most jobs, the real learning starts after qualification. The point I am making is there are making barriers to entry and transference in the rail industry, and this can sometimes be the fault of the unions because of past agreements and practices.





No I am not being sarcastic, many enthusiasts know the locations of tunnels, stations, the overall line speeds, viaducts and other info concerning a large number of routes. Beyond that it depends how interested you are. For example, many routes I know the location of signals, junctions, even when they were commissioned even and what was there before, who controls certain areas, the sort of timetables in operation, not just the ECML but all over the country, and I know I am not exceptional. Though I know people with maps of many routes throughout the country and sectional appendixes.

In other words, I do have an appreciation of what route knowledge is, and what it consists of and when I see people talk of it as a very special skill, I would politely disagree.

I can say 75% of the time I know where I am WITHOUT looking out of the window, you get a "feel" for the track, the noise all sorts of things, that is proper route knowledge, anyone can get a copy of the sectional appendix or a map, THAT is the difference

 

[Zoe]

You are right about this and yes, they still run. There is a schedule (rather like an omnibus timetable) for all the locations it calls at and there are a huge number of schedules and connections between taxis at various points. They only run as required though so have to be booked in advance.

Will they go outside Greater London then to stations on the Met as far as Amersham or on the Central line to Epping?

 

[Mojo]

Will they go outside Greater London then to stations on the Met as far as Amersham or on the Central line to Epping?

Not entirely sure but can check the schedules next week. I know from memory that there are a few taxis outside London, for example I know one goes to Aylesbury.

 

[Metroland]

I can say 75% of the time I know where I am WITHOUT looking out of the window, you get a "feel" for the track, the noise all sorts of things, that is proper route knowledge, anyone can get a copy of the sectional appendix or a map, THAT is the difference

I'm not much different myself on many routes, but with modern GPS anyone can get the location of where they are on most phones, let alone more industrial equipment. Most of these issues are quite solvable by technology. The point is, if there is an innovative technical solution to these things, which saves money, and maintains safety to a reasonable degree, the railways ought to be employing it.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I'm not much different myself on many routes, but with modern GPS anyone can get the location of where they are on most phones, let alone more industrial equipment. Most of these issues are quite solvable by technology. The point is, if there is an innovative technical solution to these things, which saves money, and maintains safety to a reasonable degree, the railways ought to be employing it.

Modern GPS would be the common sense approach, BUT as already said between us all about McNumpty (sorry just can't help myself lol) savings need to be made so i'm sure that won't happen anythime soon, in My TOC we have Blackberries that have GPS but I am not sure about others, all they would need is a Map app and the job would be done BUT what happened in a long Tunnel (Totley for example) even in a tunnel the sound changes but GPS would be useless

 

[313103]

I'd describe a Guard on approx £25,000 as Middle Class.

Those on minimum wage in the UK don't have Bob Crow fighting their corner...

I recent that accusation that someone on £25,000 is middle class. I live in Islington and £25,000 wont get you much where i live and live in what is considered to be the poorest part of Islington. The flat i live in is just big enough to swing a small rat, but by no stretch of the imagination is it big enough to swing a cat. My take home is around £1100 a month and my wifes is £450 yet once i have paid all my bills i am left with around £250 to spend on other essentials like food. That is why instead of me doing things during my two weeks leave this and last week i have spent virtually all the time indoors and doing nothing but to argue on here. Most people who are middle would have spent at least one week away in a foreign country, i cant even afford to have a day out in Southend.

Once again you are misinformed and wrong by a long chalk that my General secretary doesnt have those on minimum wage. Most cleaners that you see sweeping and cleaning the C*** away that passengers have left behind are often on lower then the minimum wage.


Why oh why has the Mcnulty report suddenly incurred and quite predictable the anti RMT and anti Bob Stance amongst the usual suspects within this thread. No body complains about what my Managing Director with an employment of staff of less then 2,000 earns. Yet Bob's salary is brought into question and has something like 75,000 to 80,000 people under his charge, i think that if i did the maths that works out at around just under £2.00 from every member per year.


Whay has no one get back to me about what i will be doing when i have been made redundant! This is now the 4th time i have mentioned this and yet i have got no response. Can someone please, please enlighten me.