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Mcgills v Harte Buses 2002-2004 ten years or so on

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robertclark125

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Back in 2002, Mcgills, which then only ran the ex Arriva operations in Greenock and Inverclyde, had been on a spate of acquisition and expansion, and had hoovered up nearly all local competitiors. One remained, Harte Buses, run by Peter Harte. It ran one route, the 602 Greenock - Midton - Trumpethill, though a second route, to Braehead was launched during 2003.

Harte was well respected, and had never suffered competition from Clydeside/Arriva, in fact having good relations with them. But, in 2002, Mcgills launched a new rival 602 service, running to the same frequency, but 2 minutes ahead of Harte.

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/articles/2/2190

The public support Harte had was incredible. In fact, a public demonstration was held at Greenock bus station in Octboer that year, supporting Harte and opposing Mcgills. Harte, in fact, had retained over 85% of his custom, but, the costs incurred in keeping that custom put his service at a loss, and the inevitable happened in 2004.

http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/articles/1/5113

Now, some ten years or so on, do people remember this bus war, and the outcome? Remember that, seemingly, Mcgills were running round with one or two passengers, compared to the larger numbers, circa 15 or 16, with Harte, per bus (these are estimate figures), and Mcgills were losing money. So, it begs the question, given the fact the competition commission had wanted more competition on the buses, in reality, surely any big group firm could run a new service rivalling a small firm, and keep running it, losing money, until it got to the stage where both were losing money, and the smaller firm had to give in, because of what the competition commission wanted to see?
 
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robertclark125

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I think that as well as harte saying there wasn't enough custom to support two operators, Harte was being forced to put on extra buses sometimes, to combat Mcgills.
 

Deerfold

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So, it begs the question, given the fact the competition commission had wanted more competition on the buses, in reality, surely any big group firm could run a new service rivalling a small firm, and keep running it, losing money, until it got to the stage where both were losing money, and the smaller firm had to give in, because of what the competition commission wanted to see?

Indeed, that has happened many times - an extreme example being the Darlington bus wars where Stagecoach, having not been chosen purchase the extant council bus operation, ran free buses on the routes. The local operator went bust leaving Stagecoach as the only remaining operator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlington_Bus_War
 

Sandy Drew

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I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Harte suffered a bad run of luck at the time. Also significant (from memory), was there a vehicle or two off the road awaiting replacement parts for a significant amount of time, resulting in lost revenue on another part of their business.

Will have a wee look around and post if I can find the article.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ignore me - think I'm going mad. This was the article I was thinking of...

http://www.hartebuses.co.uk/blog/

unrelated - sorry! :)
 

anthony263

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Indeed, that has happened many times - an extreme example being the Darlington bus wars where Stagecoach, having not been chosen purchase the extant council bus operation, ran free buses on the routes. The local operator went bust leaving Stagecoach as the only remaining operator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlington_Bus_War


Another recent example being the Cardiff Bus vs 2Travel Group where Cardiff Bus ran some services at a loss to force 2Travel off the road. The latter of course collapsed a few years ago however the directors of 2Travel suceeded in their claim against Cardiff Bus which cost the then boss his job.
 
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