Looking at the times, they seem to be roughly in the existing GWR paths between Plymouth and Penzance.
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May 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed Changes Only
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North Wales Coast seems to get an earlier start on a Sunday with a 0621 Chester - Holyhead and 0717 Holyhead - Crewe.
voyagerdude220
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Does anyone know when GWR and Avanti will be uploaded?
158841
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Looks like there’s only one change to the Chester - Shrewsbury line:
Our 2J99 on a Saturday (2228) Chester to Salop is now going to work through as 1V99 from Chester to Cardiff Central! Nice change!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Until operators publish their official timetables, when they usually accompany the release with a statement of the main changes, the only way to identify them is really by looking at RTT and comparing the current timetable with the upcoming one.
There are some websites such as railwaydata which upload draft timetables as they are available, but that's usually after most if not all TOCs have appeared on RTT.
DaveHarries
Established Member
Just been looking on the Heart of Wales line. One slight tweak is that, on Mon - Fri, train 2M00 (0450 Swansea - Shrewsbury) keeps its headcode but becomes 0447 Carmarthen - Shrewsbury - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G57477/2025-05-22/detailed - and runs fast to call at Pembrey & Burry Port and then Llanelli before taking the HoW. Didn't that trip start from Carmarthen a few years ago (before COVID)?
Also one or two other minor TT changes on the HoW at weekends.
Dave
From what's been put in for Avanti, it looks like Watford Junction's losing most of its services to Preston and further north. The 05:31 Euston to Glasgow still calls, as it did pre-Covid, as does the 21:10 to Preston via Nuneaton, but the 06:16 Euston to Edinburgh (Milton Keynes Central, Coventry...) now leaves at 06:33. I can't tell what's happening with the 07:16 to Blackpool North (not put in yet?) and the 10:16 and 11:16 to Edinburgh and Blackpool move to xx:38 and run fast to Coventry.
Southbound, the 07:00 from Lancaster and 12:52 from Edinburgh not calling seem to be the only changes for Watford Junction, both running fast south of Coventry.
Southbound, the 07:00 from Lancaster and 12:52 from Edinburgh not calling seem to be the only changes for Watford Junction, both running fast south of Coventry.
EMR Regional changes in December are meant to be pretty significant with the introduction of the second hourly Lincoln services so wouldn't have expected much for May.
The missing Liverpool - Norwich trains continue to be a particular frustration but given the fleet struggles it's not a particular surprise at the moment. Etches Park South Shed coming back properly online will hopefully help matters but more unit stabling and servicing space is desperately needed.
The missing Liverpool - Norwich trains continue to be a particular frustration but given the fleet struggles it's not a particular surprise at the moment. Etches Park South Shed coming back properly online will hopefully help matters but more unit stabling and servicing space is desperately needed.
Jamesrob637
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There's only one Saturday train missing from Liverpool though. Maybe the gaps are more on the eastern side.
dk1
Veteran Member
Only missing on the eastern side are the 12:51 ex-Lime St that continues to terminate Nottingham & corresponding 18:55 return Monday-Saturday.
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Many thanks for this information. Much appreciated.
1H50 07:08 Crewe-Manchester is back on weekdays, I think it's been running on Saturdays for a while. Virgin introduced this towards the end of their franchise and it's a useful early commuter train, I used it a few times for early dental appointments in Manchester. It runs empty from Longsight so probably frees up space there, and if the ECS doesn't run you know that the passenger service won't run either. It fills a gap between 1H60 (06:10 Crewe-Manchester) and 1H61 (08:10 from Crewe, 06:29 from Euston) to make the Avanti service hourly again.
It stopped running on weekdays a few year ago so it's nice to see it back again. Shame my dentist has moved, so I'm less likely to use it now than I was.
It stopped running on weekdays a few year ago so it's nice to see it back again. Shame my dentist has moved, so I'm less likely to use it now than I was.
This was always the plan for the December 2022 timetable, but the implementation was delayed. The three paths between Euston and Birmingham are:
- xx:10 departing Euston, timed as a Pendolino, first stop Coventry
- xx:16 departing Euston, timed as an 80x, calling Watford Jn, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham Intl
- xx:40 departing Euston, timed as a Pendolino, first stop Coventry
As a temporary measure, while they had Voyagers, they were able to swap the xx:16 and xx:40 and extend the xx:16 path north from Birmingham; but with no more Voyagers, that would require diagramming an 80x on the corresponding xx:40 that terminates at Birmingham, which wouldn't be able to keep to time as the xx:40 path is timed for a Pendolino.
For no discernible reason the xx:40 is advertised as xx:38 in the May 2025 timetable; Avanti are definitely creeping in with various public adjustments (e.g. the xx:02 to Chester being advertised as xx:00).
Discuss223
Member
Unfortunately, I am not privy to the TRUST database, but reading on this thread, services from Southampton to Newcastle will be restored but from Newcastle, they will only go as far as Reading.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Looks like - 5 to Reading and in the other direction 3 from Reading and 1 from Southampton.
Looks like the xx:43 is advertised as xx:41 so they are all advertised earlier to make the required headway. Given the xx:43 is timed for 80x then it'll be linespeed related until that goes live.
Do you mean the 80x Sectional Running Times, which have been used to time the xx:02/16/43 departures since Dec 2022, are predicated on the MU linespeed improvements that are yet to be implemented? I wasn't aware that was the case.
devon_belle
Member
Southern appears to be in RTT for after the 17th May.
Wivenswold
Established Member
Good to hear that GA aren't messing about too much with the timetable, given how much more reliable the service has become. How dare Southend get our path for the direct Colchester "Town" (City) services though in all seriousness theirs is probably the greater need. Hopefully there's something to replace it even if it becomes a shuttle service from Colchester North. Still no sign of the hinted later last train to Clacton. It's a pretty tight situation leaving a gig somewhere in London in time to make it to Liverpool Street for 23:30, I've missed so many amazing encores in my time (Paul McCartney with Neil Young being the most annoying). Anyway, that's for another off-topic thread when it's a slow news day.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Yes they are, hence the 80x regularly losing time on the WCML since introduction.
brad465
Veteran Member
The Sidcup line up services are starting a minute earlier than currently, being 09, 24, 39 and 54 past the hour from Crayford instead of 10, 25, 40 and 55. They still get to London Bridge at the same time though, so obviously they feel more padding is needed in the schedule.
Southeastern also appear to be bringing back the Summer specials to/from Ramsgate via the North Kent line. The Saturday service starts as early as the 24th May, with 2 trains a day each way. The Sunday service doesn't start until the 20th July, with 1 train per day.
Southeastern also appear to be bringing back the Summer specials to/from Ramsgate via the North Kent line. The Saturday service starts as early as the 24th May, with 2 trains a day each way. The Sunday service doesn't start until the 20th July, with 1 train per day.
swt_passenger
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Total of 7 trains for the whole day from Reading to the northeast area or “York/Newcastle”. That’s not exactly the “Reintroduction of a near-hourly service on the Reading-York/Newcastle corridor” proposed in the XC track access application for May 2025. I wonder if near-hourly will ever return…
frodshamfella
Established Member
my god those summer North Kent to Ramsgates havent run since I was kid in the 70s, as far as I know.
brad465
Veteran Member
They've run plenty this century so far, albeit not every year. I remember in the early 00s there was at least one year 365s did the specials. Then in the early 2010s there were a couple of years a CHX-GLM was extended to Ramsgate, but didn't run back in passenger service. However since 2018, they have run on weekends in the summer, especially July and August, every year, in addition to the normal timetable. Even covid didn't stop them running (if anything they probably helped spread passenger loads when social distancing was a thing). 465/466s have done them since 2018, although the odd 377 formation has shown up. This year it'll be interesting to see what stock does them with more 377s coming over and potentially taking over more of Gillingham depot.
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norbitonflyer
Established Member
I probably used one very shortly after they started in 1959! There is a photograph of me, aged less than 1, on the beach at Ramsgate (apparently trying to start digging a tunnel!) As my grandparents (and a train enthusiast uncle, who would doubtless have wanted to try the new electric service as soon as it started in June 1959) lived in Blackheath, and we had no car, I would assume that we got to Ramsgate by train.
I was too young to remember, and sadly no-one else who is likely to have been in that party is still with us, so I can't ask.
duffield
Established Member
Exactly, there's still a two hour gap at exactly the time that would be most useful for me.
It would be nice if at least XC would at least tell us if there is any intention to reintroduce the still-missing services at all, ever, of if this is as good as it gets.
moonarrow458
Member
I haven't noticed any changes for the metro area, do we know when or even if some of the cuts in the Southern metro area will be restored?
The ones i'm thinking of is:
-The missing 2tph Victoria to Epsom (only a handful of peak services restored)
-The missing 2tph Victoria to Sutton via Selhurst services in the off peak (Restored in the peak)
- The missing 2tph SN from London Bridge along the Annerley Corridor towards Croydon (only a mere smattering of peak hour services were restored in December 2024)
Because the cuts have turned a 4tph turn up and go service in large parts of South London to a rather unattractive 2tph service and i was hoping with SN getting a cascade of 387s from GN we might see some of those cuts restored in the May 2025 timetable
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