May 2023 changes

[dk1]

Probably not. That would be far too difficult for our fragmented railway.

It wouldn't be straightforward that's for sure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2023 ==

150s are the stock type that both operators have. Northern don't have crews based at Chester. When a unit comes off the Mid-Cheshire service for the Helsby to Ellesmere Port shuttle it gets handed over from Manchester crews to Liverpool crews.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm assuming no Northern traincrew sign the Halton Curve either.

 

[Parjon]

Chester - Frodsham -Liverpool service suspended until further notice…

Right, this isn't a timetable change it's to do with short term emergency checks on the rolling stock

 

[Llandudno]

Right, this isn't a timetable change it's to do with short term emergency checks on the rolling stock

Correct, like I said ‘suspended until further notice!’

It could be 4 days, 4 weeks, 4 months - who knows, either way it’s shambolic!

 

[frodshamfella]

I think I read there has also been no service from Wrexham to Bidston for a week

 

[Birmingham]

Already been touched on but there’s a massive slowing down of Chiltern Birminghams from May.

For example, 1H27 Kidderminster to Marylebone currently calls from Moor Street at Solihull, Warwick Parkway, Leamington Spa, and Banbury (1h47)

From May, it will start from Moor Street calling Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick Parkway, Warwick, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Bicester North, and Haddenham & Thame Parkway (2h00)

 

[AlterEgo]

Already been touched on but there’s a massive slowing down of Chiltern Birminghams from May.

For example, 1H27 Kidderminster to Marylebone currently calls from Moor Street at Solihull, Warwick Parkway, Leamington Spa, and Banbury (1h47)

From May, it will start from Moor Street calling Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick Parkway, Warwick, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Bicester North, and Haddenham & Thame Parkway (2h00)

That's quite the fall from grace for Chiltern. When the Silver trains were introduced the route competed heavily with Virgin's offer on the WCML and offered 90-minute journeys from Moor Street to London. Virgin were very worried about it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's quite the fall from grace for Chiltern. When the Silver trains were introduced the route competed heavily with Virgin's offer on the WCML and offered 90-minute journeys from Moor Street to London. Virgin were very worried about it!

Or it's Chiltern better doing what they should be doing, i.e. providing their core service, not running fast Birminghams on a 2-track line which detracts from the core service (unlike the 4 track WCML).

 

[AlterEgo]

Or it's Chiltern better doing what they should be doing, i.e. providing their core service, not running fast Birminghams on a 2-track line which detracts from the core service (unlike the 4 track WCML).

I think it's possibly both. Chiltern had such a sense of importance 7-8 years ago.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think it's possibly both. Chiltern had such a sense of importance 7-8 years ago.

Yes, they’re utter rubbish these days. I’ll take anything over LNR (165 excluded) but I’d never consider taking Chiltern over Avanti if the price was reasonable enough for the latter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2023 ==

Or it's Chiltern better doing what they should be doing, i.e. providing their core service, not running fast Birminghams on a 2-track line which detracts from the core service (unlike the 4 track WCML).

The point of the service is probably very similar to the West of England Mainline in that it’s not intended to get customers from the first origin to the final destination, more to service in betweens, but cheapskates can use it as a slower alternative if they wish to save a bit. I’ve done it when Avanti wanted a scandalous amount of money (and regretted it as the packed 3-168 home stopped everywhere under the sun) Usually I can get very good cheap advances on Birmingham Euston. Far more commonly than those from Crewe or Manchester anyway.

 

[paddyb6]

Yes, they’re utter rubbish these days. I’ll take anything over LNR (165 excluded) but I’d never consider taking Chiltern over Avanti if the price was reasonable enough for the latter.

Completely agree - with Chiltern's slowing down makes me even more inclined to take Avanti. Worst case scenario, LNR to Rugby and change there onto a Crewe flyer into London.

 

[dk1]

Completely agree - with Chiltern's slowing down makes me even more inclined to take Avanti. Worst case scenario, LNR to Rugby and change there onto a Crewe flyer into London.

I didn’t mind using Chiltern occasionally when it was faster for a change but always reverted back to Virgin Trains. The 3tph frequency in roughly 1h25 almost every day is hard to beat. Even now with their slightly reduced off peak & different 3tph timetable, Avanti wins every time for me.

 

[Mamorin]

I was hoping to see XC reintroduce services at all of the stations they cut calling at in June 2020, but XC are not reinstating all the calls they cut in June 2020.

 

[AD90]

I live in Helsby and I love the Liverpool Lime Street service over the Halton Curve its a fantastic route and allows easy access to Liverpool which is the only quick way into Liverpool since the X1 bus service from Runcorn Shopping City was withdrawn completely (another ridiculous idea) I was told that the Helsby to Liverpool Lime Street service was going back to hourly in May I hope it does return as it was always very well used service trains were always busy I hope the crossovers at Frodsham Junction and Halton Junction remain in place I still think it would have been better to have returned the Halton Curve as a dual track like it used to be and when you travel over the line you can see where the southbound track should be it would be worthwhile to have it dual tracked again with diamond crossings in place.

One of the sidings at Helsby Station has been taken up I have often wondered if the signal box at Helsby Station would still allow trains to access the sidings

 

[dk1]

I live in Helsby and I love the Liverpool Lime Street service over the Halton Curve its a fantastic route and allows easy access to Liverpool which is the only quick way into Liverpool since the X1 bus service from Runcorn Shopping City was withdrawn completely (another ridiculous idea) I was told that the Helsby to Liverpool Lime Street service was going back to hourly in May I hope it does return as it was always very well used service trains were always busy I hope the crossovers at Frodsham Junction and Halton Junction remain in place I still think it would have been better to have returned the Halton Curve as a dual track like it used to be and when you travel over the line you can see where the southbound track should be it would be worthwhile to have it dual tracked again with diamond crossings in place.

One of the sidings at Helsby Station has been taken up I have often wondered if the signal box at Helsby Station would still allow trains to access the sidings

Showing as 2-hourly on RTT from May.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I was hoping to see XC reintroduce services at all of the stations they cut calling at in June 2020, but XC are not reinstating all the calls they cut in June 2020.

Fife is back as is Winchester and the Cornish Shacks. Think Brockenhurst is still the big looser along with Congleton.

 

[Mamorin]

Fife is back as is Winchester and the Cornish Shacks. Think Brockenhurst is still the big looser along with Congleton.

Nice to see some stations get their XC services back, shame about Brockenhurst and Congleton though.

If XC are going back to singles on Manchester services I can't see why Congleton is not getting its limited XC services back. It had like 3 a day Monday-Saturday I think.

 

[Mag_seven]

I note that there are hardly any GWR services running fast through Reading non stop now from May (just three a day compared to ten now). It almost feels that the entire Reading remodelling project to allow fast through running (amongst other things) was all for nothing.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I note that there are hardly any GWR services running fast through Reading non stop now from May (just three a day compared to ten now). It almost feels that the entire Reading remodelling project to allow fast through running (amongst other things) was all for nothing.

The non-stops which have gone are mostly the non-stop Oxfords which caused quite some excitement when they were first planned.

As demand recovers post covid it’s not going to be unexpected to see some faster services come back in on the core South Wales route. The remodelling project wasn’t expected to know Covid was around the corner.

 

[Mag_seven]

The remodelling project wasn’t expected to know Covid was around the corner.

Oh I absolutely get that except that tonight for example I was on a very busy train from Paddington that was first stop Didcot - when a Reading stop is added in May I suspect it will be rammed!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Oh I absolutely get that except that tonight for example I was on a very busy train from Paddington that was first stop Didcot - when a Reading stop is added in May I suspect it will be rammed!

Ah yes the change to the evening Cheltenhams seems a little strange. Must admit I had forgotten about those.

 

[peterson]

Reading biased view incoming, but it's great to see the Reading calls re-added to the evening peak services up to/through Oxford.

With XC services now only hourly, and these GWRs passing through, the Reading to Oxford service has been poor. Oxford is the next major centre up the Thames Valley and there is a significant commuting pattern between the two. In Reading we're building a huge new office complex at Station Hill... we need peak time services around the Thames Valley. I can just about live with a peak time Bristol/South Wales express bombing through, but connections to Oxford are just essential from a Reading perspective.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Reading biased view incoming, but it's great to see the Reading calls re-added to the evening peak services up to/through Oxford.

Also very true from a Cotswold point-of-view. The GWR superfasts absolutely trashed the commuter service between Reading and the Cotswolds, with just one direct train between 1630 and 2000. I'm very pleased to see them added to the "let's just forget that happened, shall we?" pile.

Edit: I presume that applies to the Stroud/Cheltenham line too - right now there's a 1553 departure from Reading to Cheltenham, then two running through fast, meaning the next direct service is 1855.

 

[Goldfish62]

Reading biased view incoming, but it's great to see the Reading calls re-added to the evening peak services up to/through Oxford.

With XC services now only hourly, and these GWRs passing through, the Reading to Oxford service has been poor. Oxford is the next major centre up the Thames Valley and there is a significant commuting pattern between the two. In Reading we're building a huge new office complex at Station Hill... we need peak time services around the Thames Valley. I can just about live with a peak time Bristol/South Wales express bombing through, but connections to Oxford are just essential from a Reading perspective.

Completely agree. I'm surprised it's taken so long to stick the stop in.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Will there be any change to the absolutely ridiculous situation of the Avanti and LNWR ex-Liverpool trains arriving at Crewe with three minutes of each other at xx:18 & xx:21, (i.e. a 57 minute gap)?

As a regular traveller to Derby from Liverpool via Crewe, what was a relaxing wait for the Derby train has become almost an hour and it drives me mad!

 

[dk1]

Will there be any change to the absolutely ridiculous situation of the Avanti and LNWR ex-Liverpool trains arriving at Crewe with three minutes of each other at xx:18 & xx:21, (i.e. a 57 minute gap)?

As a regular traveller to Derby from Liverpool via Crewe, what was a relaxing wait for the Derby train has become almost an hour and it drives me mad!

Exactly the same from May if you check RTT.

 

[CptCharlee]

What are the Penzance to London service changes that GWR are referring to for May?

 

[Watershed]

Will there be any change to the absolutely ridiculous situation of the Avanti and LNWR ex-Liverpool trains arriving at Crewe with three minutes of each other at xx:18 & xx:21, (i.e. a 57 minute gap)?

As a regular traveller to Derby from Liverpool via Crewe, what was a relaxing wait for the Derby train has become almost an hour and it drives me mad!

Not unless either operator introduces their other missing Liverpool service. Both are well overdue but will instead likely be confirmed as scrapped due to cutbacks.

 

[MikeWM]

Will there be any change to the absolutely ridiculous situation of the Avanti and LNWR ex-Liverpool trains arriving at Crewe with three minutes of each other at xx:18 & xx:21, (i.e. a 57 minute gap)?

As a regular traveller to Derby from Liverpool via Crewe, what was a relaxing wait for the Derby train has become almost an hour and it drives me mad!

A similar issue is still present at Birmingham New Street, where the Stansted services arrive/depart a couple of minutes before/after the Liverpools. What was a through service many moons ago, and has been a half-hour connection for years, now requires almost an hour to wait in both directions. (The west-to-north connections at Nuneaton all almost involve an hour wait too; the south-to-east connections are a little better).

It makes the EMR direct service from Ely to Liverpool look more competitive, as that is now on average about 20 minutes quicker than going via Birmingham!

 

[James90012]

I suppose that's the problem with stripping trains out of an existing timetable, where good frequencies automatically provide reasonable connections, versus building a timetable specifically for the current service levels. I'm hopeful that these reductions are interim, but if it becomes clear that reduced service levels are going to be in place for say 5 years then that justifies a fresh look, in my opinion.

 

[sonic2009]

Will there be any change to the absolutely ridiculous situation of the Avanti and LNWR ex-Liverpool trains arriving at Crewe with three minutes of each other at xx:18 & xx:21, (i.e. a 57 minute gap)?

As a regular traveller to Derby from Liverpool via Crewe, what was a relaxing wait for the Derby train has become almost an hour and it drives me mad!

It's exactly the same with connections onto the LNWR stopping service at Crewe towards Euston - Liverpool trains arrive xx18 - Euston service leaves xx13 - so you have to wait just under an hour.