May 2023 changes

[Jammy Dodger]

So we’re still missing the one an hour SX train that used to stop there then

Effectively, yes. Off-peak, there should be 4tph that call at SST. It is currently 2tph, appearing to rise to 3tph in May (adding the 2nd CBG service back in). StanEx may never return to 4tph, given reduced demand, and may be replaced with a 3rd CBG service at some point in the future. Current StanEx pattern is a semi-fast 2tph (SSD, SST (1tph), BIS, HWN, TOM, LST)

 

[Mamorin]

Also a return to hourly Bournemouth to Manchester rather than 2hourly curtailments at Reading. Does mean they shall all be single sets due to interworking at Manchester. Seems mostly a return to precovid times finally. But not quite full half hourly between reading and Birmingham yet

Been waiting for XC to go back to as close a pre-covid timetable as possible.

Does this meen some of the limited stops they suspended 3 years ago are being reinstated?

 

[Goldfish62]

Been waiting for XC to go back to as close a pre-covid timetable as possible.

Does this meen some of the limited stops they suspended 3 years ago are being reinstated?

Very welcome reinstatement of the hourly service but sadly it seems that they're still not stopping at Brockenhurst.

Also, unsurprisingly, I'm told that most XC services will revert to single Voyagers. That's going to interesting on the Reading - Birmingham corridor given that there will still be plenty of one hour gaps in the service given the rather limited reintroduction of Reading - Newcastle services.

 

[Mamorin]

If XC go back to single voyagers again then my station might get it's XC services back which would be wonderful. As doubles were the reason the stops were cut.

I thought Brockenhurst would have gotten hourly XC services back again given the passenger figures are high enough to justify it.

Be interesting to see XC Manchester services a single voyagers again given how for nearly the past 3 years they have been doubles.

Though I've got a bad feeling those are going to be packed services, due to going from singles to doubles.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I've made a dedicated thread regarding services on the Shipley Triangle.

 

[Goldfish62]

If XC go back to single voyagers again then my station might get it's XC services back which would be wonderful. As doubles were the reason the stops were cut.

I thought Brockenhurst would have gotten hourly XC services back again given the passenger figures are high enough to justify it.

Be interesting to see XC Manchester services a single voyagers again given how for nearly the past 3 years they have been doubles.

Though I've got a bad feeling those are going to be packed services, due to going from singles to doubles.

Given that the Reading - Newcastle services haven't been fully restored and the HSTs are going to be better utilised from May (unless the DfT has changed its mind on this) there should still be scope for some double Voyagers. Whether that happens remains to be seen.

 

[Jimini]

Reading <> Birmingham down to single Voyagers = bad. Not looking forward to that!

 

[yorksrob]

Reading <> Birmingham down to single Voyagers = bad. Not looking forward to that!

Still, all those passengers' discomfort will be worth it so the squatter government can get its 10% pound of flesh from rail passengers !

 

[Goldfish62]

Reading <> Birmingham down to single Voyagers = bad. Not looking forward to that!

While two AWC Class 221s sit in store unused...

 

[mangyiscute]

Reading <> Birmingham down to single Voyagers = bad. Not looking forward to that!

In the hours with the second train, probably fine. What worries me is for example from the 16:03 heading south from Birmingham, there are only hourly services, which are currently usually majority full in terms of seats with double trains running. Convert these to singles and don't add in any new trains...

Also just to note the one time I took the sleeper from Penzance, it was pretty busy so I'm not sure you'd want to give space to local passengers at the expense of long distance ones - perhaps a train could be attached onto the end or something or just have a local passenger only carriage etc (I have no idea how feasible something like this is)

 

[WizCastro197]

Very welcome reinstatement of the hourly service but sadly it seems that they're still not stopping at Brockenhurst.

I too was convinced they weren’t stopping at Brockenhurst after 20 May, after reading some posts here that suggested so. However, I just wanted to double check, and the 09:45 Bournemouth to Manchester Picc is recorded by RTT as scheduled to stop at Brockenhurst?

Realtime Trains | 0945 Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly | 30/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 0945 departure from Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 30/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mangyiscute]

I too was convinced they weren’t stopping at Brockenhurst after 20 May, after reading some posts here that suggested so. However, I just wanted to double check, and the 09:45 Bournemouth to Manchester Picc is recorded by RTT as scheduled to stop at Brockenhurst?

Realtime Trains | 0945 Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly | 30/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 0945 departure from Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 30/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think theres like 2 that call each way per day

 

[WizCastro197]

I think theres like 2 that call each way per day

Yes there are, but I think members were taking about the omission of these services in total at Brockenhurst, I may be wrong.


Single 4,5 coach voyagers from Bournemouth don’t soon good. From May, is it even worth trying to chance getting a seat on these services.

 

[Mamorin]

I too was convinced they weren’t stopping at Brockenhurst after 20 May, after reading some posts here that suggested so. However, I just wanted to double check, and the 09:45 Bournemouth to Manchester Picc is recorded by RTT as scheduled to stop at Brockenhurst?

Realtime Trains | 0945 Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly | 30/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 0945 departure from Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 30/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

RTT is running off information on current timetables right now so it's not going to show any changes to services that are planned to happen in May just yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2023 ==

Single 4,5 coach voyagers from Bournemouth don’t soon good. From May, is it even worth trying to chance getting a seat on these services.

If your getting on at Bournemouth yes its worth trying to get a seat, 2 or 3+ stops in I would say nope its not worth it.

 

[OrangeJuice]

I've been on a couple of single sets from Southampton as not all are doubles on the current near two hourly to Bournemouth and when not stopping at brockenhurst there were seats at Southampton Central but after that people were standing, some at reading got seats as there was a fair churn but standing again to Birmingham.

 

[md2016]

First post here after years of lurking.

I've just looked at the May Chiltern timetable on Realtimetrains. Am I right in assessing that they've cut 1tph from Marylebone to busy stations like Beaconsfield and Gerrards Cross, and making all trains to those stations much slower stopping services?

If so, doesn't that feel pretty stupid, given the number of people who embark/disembark there at peak times?

 

[mangyiscute]

the thing with the chiltern timetable is that if you reinstate 2tph to birmingham, those trains and crew have to come from somewhere hence why other services have been reduced

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I wonder if we take a snapshot of what has been downloaded by the operators now and then in three months time take another download how many trains will have disappeared as DfT cutbacks are enacted.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I wonder if we take a snapshot of what has been downloaded by the operators now and then in three months time take another download how many trains will have disappeared as DfT cutbacks are enacted.

For some operators all the changes for May are already in.

Too late to be significantly changing the timetable in most cases.

 

[Mamorin]

Which TOCs have their May timetable in? Only one I know of Northern who have theirs in as it is viewable on their website.

 

[swt_passenger]

[…]
Single 4,5 coach voyagers from Bournemouth don’t soon good. From May, is it even worth trying to chance getting a seat on these services.

It’s all you ever got at Bournemouth before 2020, with the odd exception. Maybe one service each way per day was booked for a double. The Newcastle services starting from Southampton that are still missing probably have a greater effect on overall XC capacity.

 

[Mamorin]

Pre-2020 I never saw doubles on Bournemouth services, so I don't think there were any doubles booked on Bournemouth services pre-2020.

I could be wrong though and maybe one service each way was a double pre-2020.

 

[Starmill]

From the timings, it looks like a 'peak only' unit is used for this. So no additional cost in terms of units (similar to Stockport-Stalybridge in that sense) but it's a 5.5 hour round trip, so it costs most (if not all) of a crew diagram - plus obviously the diesel and wear & tear of running 143 miles.

The Saturday only service from 2019 was bad but had its uses and a regular user base. From the wider economic benefits perspective it made some kind of twisted sense to subsidise it. I myself recall spending money in a pub in Brigg having arrived there using this service.

This new service brings next to no benefit for anyone at all, because almost nobody will use it, and most of those who do will be staff or enthusiasts doing it because they can. Might as well put the money for the crew diagram and the fuel and maintenance miles five times a week into a shredder.

 

[swt_passenger]

Pre-2020 I never saw doubles on Bournemouth services, so I don't think there were any doubles booked on Bournemouth services pre-2020.

I could be wrong though and maybe one service each way was a double pre-2020.

It did something like an early New St to Manchester, then Bournemouth and back to Manchester over the course of a day, but thinking about it more, perhaps it was only a certain day or days of the week?

I’m sure someone must know. A search of previous posts suggests the 1445 off Bournemouth, (1515 off Southampton), was doubled up during certain timetable periods during the 2010s. But possibly either Mon, Thur & Friday, or sometimes Friday only.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why would there be a route closure? The line is heavily used by freight (circa 16 paths a day) over it.

if a line of route that has a passenger service ceases to have one, it requires a formal closure process in terms of passenger services. Hence the existence of so many ‘parliamentary’ services to avoid this.

As others have pointed out, this would seem like easy pickings for charter/open access to take over. How much business a pure charter operation could mop up I don't know - if LSL/WCR could operate as an open access operator and get onto the journey planners/sell walk up fares etc I would imagine this service would be relatively viable.

I doubt it. At least not at fares most would be willing to pay.

 

[Mamorin]

It did something like an early New St to Manchester, then Bournemouth and back to Manchester over the course of a day, but thinking about it more, perhaps it was only a certain day or days of the week? I’m sure someone must know.

Only day a double could have been on an early New Street to Manchester would have been a Sunday.

As the early New Street services to Manchester Monday to Saturday were always singles pre-2020.

As far as I remember all the Manchester to Bournemouth services Monday-Saturday pre-2020 were singles as well.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

For some operators all the changes for May are already in.

Too late to be significantly changing the timetable in most cases.

Yup the base timetable is in because it was developed way before DfT started challenging operators to reduce cost. Some of like GWR will be about sweating the remaining fleet but potentially some services may disappear or become Q paths. It will be small number of trains in the grander scheme of things of course.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yup the base timetable is in because it was developed way before DfT started challenging operators to reduce cost. Some of like GWR will be about sweating the remaining fleet but potentially some services may disappear or become Q paths. It will be small number of trains in the grander scheme of things of course.

No I meant most a lot of the changes due to dft cost cutting are already in.

Not all though.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Too late to be significantly changing the timetable in most cases.

I'd assume the major service alterations to cut cost would be enacted in December. If DfT rhetoric is anything to go by, I'd assume we should be prepared for some bad changes to happen...

 

[swt_passenger]

As far as I remember all the Manchester to Bournemouth services Monday-Saturday pre-2020 were singles as well.

Then you remember wrong, I’m afraid. There are dozens of posts in this forum about doubled services to/from Bournemouth on weekdays during the 2010-2019 period.