May 2023 changes

[swt_passenger]

If one service is due to to handed over to Southern, the other might as well too. I don't understand the requirement to run a Thameslink unit ( 8 or 12 coach?) down to Littlehampton, when Southern can find the units for the return service, presumably they may be able to find some units for the morning journey, saving a 700 for other duties?

There’s only one TL service each way in the present WTT, 0605 departure to London Bridge and a 1733 departure from London Bridge, both are changing to Southern operation, so there’s no other TL services to be handed over. The second return service we were referring to earlier was the pre 2020 situation.

up service 9N92 0605 becomes 1H92 22 May 23
down service 9N91 1733 becomes 1H91 22 May 23

 

[MikeWM]

As noted above the traditional 1707 / 1807 / 1907 Liv St to Kings Lynn now only run to Ely.

That seems a bit of a shame, though I suppose they've been an anomaly for a while. The first two (still) don't have Cambridge North stops either, which is a bit annoying as they would help to fill in some fairly large northbound gaps - but oddly the last one does add a CMB stop.

 

[Bald Rick]

The ministers rubber stamp what is put before them.

Not always.

Ministers are very clear about wanting choices and options to decide on. Especially on matters like this.

 

[Techniquest]

It looks that 1G01 first of the day Paddington to Worcester (via Cheltenham) will be starting from Swindon now .

I didn't know that train existed! I've been wanting to do the line between Norton Junction and Cheltenham on an IET for ages, when I last had chance it meant an incredible amount of time hanging around in Worcester in the cold, with nothing open to fill the time.

Interesting that this train exists, I may have to utilise it sometime. Certainly I will be looking at the times before too long!

Looks like the current 04.49 from Hereford to Paddington (1P01) has been withdrawn entirely, too.

It appears so, although quite honestly I'm not surprised. Based on my observations of it on 31st October 2022, it didn't pick up much until after Worcester, and even then it was still a while before any significant numbers got on.

That was the first and so far only time I've been on that service, it's not one that I ever really have a use for. The 0523 certainly I do from time to time, and absolutely the 0640 which I'm booked on for 13 days time.

 

[47421]

Hertford East rush hour trains changed in the morning no longer limited stop and no longer via Seven Sisters, but they miss out Cheshunt. City workers in for 7.30am currently get straight through at 0625, they have to change from May as that train now a Stratford not Liverpool St.

Weekdays Cheshunt will be served by all Stansted 'express' services up 0615-0815 from Stansted and down 1639, 1709, 1724, 1740, 1810, 1824, 1840 and 1910 from Liv St.

So overall BXB and Cheshunt both see significant enhancements with lots of extra stops on limited stop services, while Harlow/Stortford/points north see slight journey time increases. Probably justified as long distance commuting falls more than shorter distance commuting?

 

[175001]

Confirmation from management that no more Dales Rail from May

Chester is getting a Sunday service from Man Vic with workings through to Leeds.

 

[penguin8967]

I didn't know that train existed! I've been wanting to do the line between Norton Junction and Cheltenham on an IET for ages, when I last had chance it meant an incredible amount of time hanging around in Worcester in the cold, with nothing open to fill the time.

There's also a 19:28 Paddington to Worcester via Cheltenham in the current timetable, I believe being the only IET service to call at Ashchurch.

 

[matt_world2004]

I've noticed early morning and late night gwr services still call at Ealing Broadway and Hayes. Given they terminate at Reading is there any advantage to these remaining with GwR over the Elizabeth line

 

[Express380]

On TFW it is interesting that Ebbw trains from May cross at Llanhilleth

 

[Watershed]

Confirmation from management that no more Dales Rail from May

Chester is getting a Sunday service from Man Vic with workings through to Leeds.

That's a shame but perhaps unsurprising. Wonder if they will actually go through formal closure proceedings for Clitheroe-Hellifield or whether it will be another 'closure by stealth', like the Brigg line was for the last year, and as has happened to stations such as Redcar British Steel, Teesside Airport, Manchester United FC and Ince & Elton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Confirmation from management that no more Dales Rail from May

Pennywise and pound foolish. It's one of the best-loading services on the S&C and has existed for 30+ years. Is the intention to fully close and lift Hellifield-Clitheroe, then? It costs two units and one crew otherwise - next to nothing.

If not, I wonder would WCRC consider putting it on as a charter? It loads well and would be very sad to lose it, if it goes we won't get it back.

I'd agree with binning the winter Lancashire Rambler, though, that's pretty pointless.

 

[mangyiscute]

I've noticed early morning and late night gwr services still call at Ealing Broadway and Hayes. Given they terminate at Reading is there any advantage to these remaining with GwR over the Elizabeth line

I'm guessing it's just where the rolling stock and crew for these services are - for example the 03:55 from Reading to Paddington is used to get the train for the Greenford shuttle in from the depot in Reading so this will always remain a GWR service (at least while GWR continue to run the Greenford shuttle)

 

[Kite159]

Pennywise and pound foolish. It's one of the best-loading services on the S&C and has existed for 30+ years. Is the intention to fully close and lift Hellifield-Clitheroe, then? It costs two units and one crew otherwise - next to nothing.

If not, I wonder would WCRC consider putting it on as a charter? It loads well and would be very sad to lose it, if it goes we won't get it back.

I'd agree with binning the winter Lancashire Rambler, though, that's pretty pointless.

However it isn't the most reliable of services, last year it probably got cancelled (or part cancelled) more times than it ran in full. Unreliability isn't the way to encourage use.

Especially with Northern's habit of cancelling it the night before.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I'm not too happy about the gaps either if I'm honest. I suppose that there is still a train close to the xx:10 ish departures which are the Cheltenham Spa trains heading towards Swindon from Didcot Parkway.

I can see passengers commuting to and from Oxford and Didcot being happy - a 5-car or 9-car IET instead of a 2-car 165!

Sad to see that bunch of departures to London. xx16, 19 and 28 then a massive 48 minute gap. Down not so bad.

 

[Techniquest]

There's also a 19:28 Paddington to Worcester via Cheltenham in the current timetable, I believe being the only IET service to call at Ashchurch.

I believe you're right, I think the early train from Worcester via Cheltenham used to call there but hasn't for a long time if ever.

Pennywise and pound foolish. It's one of the best-loading services on the S&C and has existed for 30+ years. Is the intention to fully close and lift Hellifield-Clitheroe, then? It costs two units and one crew otherwise - next to nothing.

If not, I wonder would WCRC consider putting it on as a charter? It loads well and would be very sad to lose it, if it goes we won't get it back.

I'd agree with binning the winter Lancashire Rambler, though, that's pretty pointless.

I didn't even know the Lancashire Rambler existed!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe you're right, I think the early train from Worcester via Cheltenham used to call there but hasn't for a long time if ever.

I didn't even know the Lancashire Rambler existed!

It wasn't well used, a typical "one man, dog and bicycle" rural service.

 

[JonathanH]

Is the intention to fully close and lift Hellifield-Clitheroe, then?

WCRC will continue to run regular charters over the line, so let's hope not. They've run two already this year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

WCRC will continue to run regular charters over the line, so let's hope not. They've run two already this year.

I've created another thread for this specifically, but I do wonder if WCRC could perhaps take it on in some form themselves, using the DalesRail name and in association with the walk organisers, Dalesbus etc.

Further discussion here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dalesrail-to-end-what-could-be-done.242864/

 

[HST43257]

Should I be concerned that there’s no 1400 or 1500 LNER off KGX on RTT as of yet?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

(04.49 from Hereford to Paddington)

It appears so, although quite honestly I'm not surprised. Based on my observations of it on 31st October 2022, it didn't pick up much until after Worcester, and even then it was still a while before any significant numbers got on.

That was the first and so far only time I've been on that service, it's not one that I ever really have a use for. The 0523 certainly I do from time to time, and absolutely the 0640 which I'm booked on for 13 days time.

It used to load moderately well with City-bound commuters from the Oxfordshire Cotswolds - at Charlbury you'd see many more suits before 7am than after! But presumably post-pandemic there are fewer of those.

A closer look at RTT suggests that a service will run in its path from Oxford to Paddington, so it's just the Hereford/Cotswold part that's been canned. It's a very long-standing service though, dating back to at least 1993 when it started from Shrub Hill at 05.53. Remarkable that, as a Turbo, it managed a 1hr23 run from Charlbury into Paddington. Today's IET-operated service is not that much faster at 1hr14.

 

[Class 466]

Should I be concerned that there’s no 1400 or 1500 LNER off KGX on RTT as of yet?

The ECS off of 1W20 is present at Aberdeen, so I'd say no, they've just not been uploaded yet.

 

[LowLevel]

Lincoln - Leicester look to be back to hourly. Still no change on the North Staffs and Robin Hood. Really hope this changes and the 2 hour gaps are filled in.

London's it looks like the daytime Melton return is now a 360 to Corby.

All day Mansfields are now showing in June, still some stuff trickling in

 

[Jamesrob637]

But I'm guessing still no hourly Chester via Altrincham or Stoke to Manchester on Sundays. Not far off a decade after they were first mooted.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But I'm guessing still no hourly Chester via Altrincham or Stoke to Manchester on Sundays. Not far off a decade after they were first mooted.

In a timetable based around saving money / not costing extra money which is what the May timetable is all about (see @Bald Rick’s previous mooting of this), you wouldn’t expect to see pure enhancements, especially on Sundays with the IR issues of Committed Sundays etc.

On routes seeing enhancements such as GWR these are either funded externally (Metro West) or it’s been listed there’s some trains like early trains from Cheltenham and Hereford withdrawn to balance the books. On XC the extra services are achieved by running voyagers as singles with crew redeployed.

 

[WizCastro197]

There’s only one TL service each way in the present WTT, 0605 departure to London Bridge and a 1733 departure from London Bridge, both are changing to Southern operation, so there’s no other TL services to be handed over. The second return service we were referring to earlier was the pre 2020 situation.

up service 9N92 0605 becomes 1H92 22 May 23
down service 9N91 1733 becomes 1H91 22 May 23

Ah, both are. Judging by other posts I was under the impression that it was the just the evening return service changing brand.

EDIT: I have just reread your post, and to alleviate further confusion, I was talking about handing the morning service over, which I now see has already been done, I am already aware that there is only 1 service either way. Thanks .

 

[Woolos 22]

On TFW it is interesting that Ebbw trains from May cross at Llanhilleth

They will have to hurry up and put the track in and signaling in by then . They have mixed up the timetable with the December 2023 time with newpot

 

[Techniquest]

It wasn't well used, a typical "one man, dog and bicycle" rural service.

It does sound like it might have been better used if it was more well known. Have you any details of what it is/was?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does sound like it might have been better used if it was more well known. Have you any details of what it is/was?

It was, when it was running, two trains a day from Preston via Clitheroe to Hellifield and back. The publicity doesn't seem to exist any more, though it was on the Community Rail Lancashire website.

 

[xotGD]

So you are proposing scrapping Bradford-Leeds and Bradford-Skipton, leaving potentially just Bradford-Ilkley once an hour? And you wonder why you get shot down?

Plus a Shipley - Bradford shuttle from P5.

 

[sammyg901]

Having looked at the Chiltern timetable, it's been ruined on the Aylesbury side, there won't be any direct services anymore from Marylebone to Aylesbury via high Wycombe, with only the last few trains of the day running the full route, and only 2 in the very early morning running from Aylesbury. Instead, nearly all services on that branch will now be shuttles to and from Princes Risborough. The paths for myb/ays services are still there, and run at the same times as before, but they now terminate at high Wycombe instead. I've also noticed that there's now no services at all from Marylebone and terminating at banbury, with Birmingham services picking up extra stops instead.

This is back to how it was for quite a long period - I did Aylesbury to High Wycombe for a while many years ago and it was connections at Princes Risborough except v early or late. A pain but they did used to hold the shuttle if needed

At a quick glance the clock face consistent timetable does look quite good - for example Marylebone to High Wycombe is now non stop in the evening peak (on an Oxford) every 30 mins at 15 and 45 past on a 168 whereas at the moment it's quite a mismash of services and lots of 165 action.

Relieved that the "fast" Aylesbury Vale Parkway peak services have survived, I had wondered if they'd cut those as they're still not particularly busy . Surprised they haven't sped up the morning Oxford peaks into London - you've still got the 0723 as a 75mph service doing calls like Denham Golf club. A far cry from the non stop hauled set we used to get at that time of day pre COVID!