May 2023 changes

[Basil Jet]

Incidentally, http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-term-planning-process/improving-connectivity.pdf used to contain a proposal to introduce a Takt timetable across Anglia, but it's been removed from the site

That is probably because it was bonkers and didn’t stand up to any proper scrutiny!

Could you elaborate, please? Thanks.

 

[Bikeman78]

And don’t get me started on the random provision of fast services on the Ayrshire and Inverclyde routes which at times are provided counter to the main passenger flow, but not in harmony with it. No wonder trains are running in service with seats empty.

I agree. Either run an hourly fast to Gourock, or don't bother at all. Also, run the fast Gourock on the opposite half hour to the Wemyss Bay train, not two minutes in front of it!

 

[Ex-controller]

Yes. With the lack of effort put into timetable planning you begin to wonder if management just don’t care many longer.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes. With the lack of effort put into timetable planning you begin to wonder if management just don’t care many longer.

Can I send your details to the Head of Train Planning for Scotrail? I’m sure he‘d like to discuss ‘lack of effort’.

 

[DDB]

Can I send your details to the Head of Train Planning for Scotrail? I’m sure he‘d like to discuss ‘lack of effort’.

You can send mine to Head of Train Planning for EMR and I will happily discuss 'lack of effort'. Our trains were cut in a hurry 18 months ago when they discovered they hadn't got their new timetable right and they have stuck with that hasty rewrite since. They also have a replacement bus service that hasn't shown up in the data correctly for the past 6 months so they have 1 week left to get it right before the timetable change.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

You can send mine to Head of Train Planning for EMR and I will happily discuss 'lack of effort'. Our trains were cut in a hurry 18 months ago when they discovered they hadn't got their new timetable right and they have stuck with that hasty rewrite since. They also have a replacement bus service that hasn't shown up in the data correctly for the past 6 months so they have 1 week left to get it right before the timetable change.

The Head of Train Planning job at EMR is vacant as the previous holder has moved on to pastures new. It’s not really a rewarding job, Head of Planning at the moment with ever increasing pressures.

 

[Benjwri]

Head of Planning at the moment with ever increasing pressures.

A job that will never get the recognition it deserves. As much as I love to complain about certain issues, and I do thing for example at least within a TOC connection biases should be more fair, and there are genuine issues as mentioned above, unless you have unlimited resources you will always annoy someone with every change you make.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

A job that will never get the recognition it deserves. As much as I love to complain about certain issues, and I do thing for example at least within a TOC connection biases should be more fair, and there are genuine issues as mentioned above, unless you have unlimited resources you will always annoy someone with every change you make.

Indeed, and quite often at the moment the TPU will be aware of some of the issues but due to ever increasing workload have to prioritise sadly and some of these “niceties” have to get parked. Having a timetable is better then having no timetable and there’s a few TOCs at various days have come close to not achieving that.

The lack of a pay deal which is causing the strikes and thus increased workload in the TPU is also affecting the TPUs, they are in the same position and struggling to recruit / retain staff or persuade staff to work rest days.

The volume of work to complete a full days timetable and resource/balance it is the tricky and time consuming part, the standard hour ideas we see in the speculative ideas section of this forum are the easy part.

I’m sure the likes of @The Planner will elaborate further.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You can send mine to Head of Train Planning for EMR and I will happily discuss 'lack of effort'. Our trains were cut in a hurry 18 months ago when they discovered they hadn't got their new timetable right and they have stuck with that hasty rewrite since. They also have a replacement bus service that hasn't shown up in the data correctly for the past 6 months so they have 1 week left to get it right before the timetable change.

You could discuss lack of effort with far many more departments at EMR than just train planning, let me tell you. They're abominably bad at the moment, even if I do very much like their Meridians (their saving grace, if you ask me )

I'd like to see the 2tph 390 fast and 1tph 221/eventually 807 semi-fast timetable implemented in May, as it was supposed to be brought about from December but was cancelled due to the Avanti situation.

 

[Watershed]

You could discuss lack of effort with far many more departments at EMR than just train planning, let me tell you. They're abominably bad at the moment, even if I do very much like their Meridians (their saving grace, if you ask me )

I'd like to see the 2tph 390 fast and 1tph 221/eventually 807 semi-fast timetable implemented in May, as it was supposed to be brought about from December but was cancelled due to the Avanti situation.

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. I can't think of many, if any TOCs where the May TT will represent an increase over the December TT.

 

[Peter0124]

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. I can't think of many, if any TOCs where the May TT will represent an increase over the December TT.

What about Scotrail?

 

[LowLevel]

You could discuss lack of effort with far many more departments at EMR than just train planning, let me tell you. They're abominably bad at the moment, even if I do very much like their Meridians (their saving grace, if you ask me )

I'd like to see the 2tph 390 fast and 1tph 221/eventually 807 semi-fast timetable implemented in May, as it was supposed to be brought about from December but was cancelled due to the Avanti situation.

Are they? They have their issues and are a bit frustrating, but from where I'm sitting EMR seem to at least be providing the basics of a train service, which is rather more than elsewhere. I wouldn't say abominably bad.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are they? They have their issues and are a bit frustrating, but from where I'm sitting EMR seem to at least be providing the basics of a train service, which is rather more than elsewhere. I wouldn't say abominably bad.

Replying in a new thread to avoid off-topic discussion.

Edit: And that rant can be found here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/e-m-r-as-a-pretentious-brand-with-nothing-to-back-it-up.240297/

 

[lammergeier]

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. I can't think of many, if any TOCs where the May TT will represent an increase over the December TT.

Unless things have changed, and they may well have, XC will have an uplift in May and therefore more services than after this December's change

 

[GoneSouth]

if you mean what % of the 2019 timetable is running now (in terms of train services), and what % will be running from the December 2022 timetable change….

Now its’s around 90%

From Dec 22 it’s about 92%.

Not sure what measure is being used here but it would be very interesting to see a breakdown by TOC, is that available anywhere?

I've almost given up using the railway for anything other than simple point to point journeys on one train - any trip involving connections is simply too slow and/or unreliable, so I've switched back to taking the car. It's also reminded me how much quicker and more flexible that is for many journeys, and that it doesn't suddenly decide to go on strike after I've already booked my accommodation.

Oh I really wish I could do the same. Using trains is soul destroying this year with cuts, cancellations, strikes and packed to bursting weekends trains. I’ve missed family events, theatre, concerts, sport and I’ve lost a few hundred quid because of it… I’m fed up of trains!

But do they wait for connections?

- at least there is a shiny new Wetherspoons to frequent at New Street!

Is there? When did that appear and where is it please? I had an hour wait there a couple of days ago and ended up going to a pub up the road… I think it’s The Shakespeare?

You could discuss lack of effort with far many more departments at EMR than just train planning, let me tell you. They're abominably bad at the moment, even if I do very much like their Meridians (their saving grace, if you ask me

Ha they looked knackered last time I got on one… broken seats, broken lights, broken tables and a toilet not big enough for a hobbit.

They could be nice but they need fixing.

 

[that1pepfan]

313/2 to be withdrawn in may 23

 

[DelW]

Is there? When did that appear and where is it please? I had an hour wait there a couple of days ago and ended up going to a pub up the road… I think it’s The Shakespeare?

I haven't been there, but the new New Street 'spoons seems to be at the south end of the western concourse (accessed via the stairs at the country end of the platforms). That concourse is also useful as it allows interchange between any pair of platforms without going through gatelines, unlike the main concourse over the middle of the platforms.

 

[PGAT]

313/2 to be withdrawn in may 23

Will the 377/5s be back in time for the replacement?

 

[JonathanH]

Will the 377/5s be back in time for the replacement?

Do they need to be? It could just be further tightening of diagrams and lopping units off services where experience has found that the capacity isn't needed. Remember that some standing passengers should be expected before a train is deemed overcrowded.

 

[that1pepfan]

Will the 377/5s be back in time for the replacement?

Nope 377/3s set to replace them

 

[GoneSouth]

I haven't been there, but the new New Street 'spoons seems to be at the south end of the western concourse (accessed via the stairs at the country end of the platforms). That concourse is also useful as it allows interchange between any pair of platforms without going through gatelines, unlike the main concourse over the middle of the platforms.

i assume this is only accessible from outside the gate line?

Thanks, I’ll give it a try next time I’m delayed in Brum

 

[Bald Rick]

i assume this is only accessible from outside the gate line?

Thanks, I’ll give it a try next time I’m delayed in Brum

If you want a decent pub near the station, then the Post Office Vaults is a one minute stroll up Stephenson St / Pinfold St. Excellent pub, great beer, and you don’t have to give Mr Martin any money. And you might even hear some railway talk

 

[jfollows]

If you want a decent pub near the station, then the Post Office Vaults is a one minute stroll up Stephenson St / Pinfold St. Excellent pub, great beer, and you don’t have to give Mr Martin any money. And you might even hear some railway talk

Agreed, it was good when I was last there, and (https://postofficevaults.co.uk/) something worth thinking about is:

We don’t serve food at the Post Office Vaults but you are more than welcome to bring your own, we will provide the plates and cutlery.

 

[Llandudno]

Agreed the Post Office Vaults is excellent, far superior to the Shakespeare!

Mr Martin, may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but the new Wetherspoons is handy (and cheap) if you only have limited time at New Street!

 

[GoneSouth]

Agreed the Post Office Vaults is excellent, far superior to the Shakespeare!

Mr Martin, may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but the new Wetherspoons is handy (and cheap) if you only have limited time at New Street!

Thanks for the Spoons info. There’s actually a thread about Spoons at stations if you’re interested (and before we’re moaned at for drifting off topic )

TRIVIA: Stations with Wetherspoons

To celebrate yesterday's opening of The London and NorthWestern at Birmingham New Street (I was there for a pint to celebrate!), which stations have a Wetherspoons pub?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[brick60000]

A job that will never get the recognition it deserves. As much as I love to complain about certain issues, and I do thing for example at least within a TOC connection biases should be more fair, and there are genuine issues as mentioned above, unless you have unlimited resources you will always annoy someone with every change you make.

Could not agree more.

It’s a physical impossibility to please everybody in the train planning world. You can’t give everybody fast, direct connections - because then they would not be fast and direct!

The only way to be a happy planner is to accept very early on that you will always annoy somebody no matter what you do

Indeed, and quite often at the moment the TPU will be aware of some of the issues but due to ever increasing workload have to prioritise sadly and some of these “niceties” have to get parked. Having a timetable is better then having no timetable and there’s a few TOCs at various days have come close to not achieving that

Also very true.

“Sorry Mr Bloggs, no train service on your two hourly line this week because we were making sure all the London trains from x station left exactly every 20 minutes” - somewhat an oversimplification, but niceties like that are not able to be considered in the current climate in most cases!

The lack of a pay deal which is causing the strikes and thus increased workload in the TPU is also affecting the TPUs, they are in the same position and struggling to recruit / retain staff or persuade staff to work rest days.

Particularly when many operators offer time in lieu vice overtime - which becomes meaningless when there is no time available to have off in lieu because the workload is ever greater!

 

[Scotrail88]

Has there been any indication on timetable changes as a result of Carstairs remodel?

I presume will be minimal due to other constraints unless larger changes to Argyle Line and Haymarket services

 

[Bald Rick]

Has there been any indication on timetable changes as a result of Carstairs remodel?

if you mean for the work itself the changes are substantial. Post work, minimal, and I don’t think they are taken into account in May 23.

 

[The Planner]

Has there been any indication on timetable changes as a result of Carstairs remodel?

I presume will be minimal due to other constraints unless larger changes to Argyle Line and Haymarket services

May 23 has been through its offer response period, but effectively all that has done has provided an up to date base to take trains out of, which will happen.

 

[cle]

When was the last time that sub-5 min savings were actually passed on to public facing timetables, vs dumbelling the timekeeping for the terminus run? Let's be realistic. Those get gobbled for OTP.

But good to know you might arrive early!