May 2023 changes

[Andy1673]

I believe 1H07 is 12 and the rest are 8

1H03 should be 12 car, 1H07 and 1H92 8 car

 

[dk1]

Might as well hand it back to LNER as XC need the diesel trains for their routes south to cover for the loss of the HSTs later in the year.

The main reason for the link was there was seen to be a (reasonable) flow from Yorkshire to the Glasgow and to the west of Scotland.

Don’t think LNER has the available stock to get involved. That was the whole reason XC took over to allow the then East Coast operator to concentrate everything on its core routes. All gone quiet on the ten additional units LNER was hoping to acquire.

 

[yorksrob]

Might as well hand it back to LNER as XC need the diesel trains for their routes south to cover for the loss of the HSTs later in the year.

The main reason for the link was there was seen to be a (reasonable) flow from Yorkshire to the Glasgow and to the west of Scotland.

This might help to explain why S&C services load so well.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Might as well hand it back to LNER as XC need the diesel trains for their routes south to cover for the loss of the HSTs later in the year.

No they don’t, the Voyager diagrams in May TT reduced by 4 diagrams which allows each of the 2 HST diagrams to become a Double Voyager later in the year with no further changes.

 

[xotGD]

This might help to explain why S&C services load so well.

And why a reinstatement of the Nottingham - Glasgow would be nice!

 

[class397tpe]

No they don’t, the Voyager diagrams in May TT reduced by 4 diagrams which allows each of the 2 HST diagrams to become a Double Voyager later in the year with no further changes.

Erm they increased diagrams by reintroducting hourly Manchester - Bristol and increasing Newcastle - Reading? Do you mean 4 diagrams less compared to pre-covid?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Erm they increased diagrams by reintroducting hourly Manchester - Bristol and increasing Newcastle - Reading? Do you mean 4 diagrams less compared to pre-covid?

No, it’s reduced the diagrams by 4 compared to pre May TT change. The Pre May TT change was the same number of diagrams as pre Covid give or take because of all the double sets running around.

Nearly all the double sets have gone from Plymouth - North East and Bournemouth - Manchester yet it’s only the Bristol to Manchester trains that have been reinstated in any number, there’s huge gaps in the Reading - Newcastle service.

This means on paper the voyagers are sat there ready to replace the HSTs.

 

[Qwertl]

Looks like all of the 12 car peak Bexleyheath line to Charing Cross services have now been cut to 10 car. So the line has paid for its hourly off peak train to CHX with less peak capacity on the route.

Also seem to be making more extensive use of class 376 on the route so even fewer seats too.

 

[PGAT]

Looks like all of the 12 car peak Bexleyheath line to Charing Cross services have now been cut to 10 car. So the line has paid for its hourly off peak train to CHX with less peak capacity on the route.

Also seem to be making more extensive use of class 376 on the route so even fewer seats too.

I think there was only one train each direction anyway

 

[yorksrob]

And why a reinstatement of the Nottingham - Glasgow would be nice!

Especially if it included a buffet car again !

 

[GoneSouth]

Especially if it included a buffet car again !

and 6 seat compartments with wooden panelling, muted lighting and the gentle clickety clak as we pass slowly over the track joints.

 

[yorksrob]

and 6 seat compartments with wooden panelling, muted lighting and the gentle clickety clak as we pass slowly over the track joints.

With either trojan or Bournemouth blue moquette !

 

[dk1]

This might help to explain why S&C services load so well.

Does the Sunday through service still run?

 

[yorksrob]

Does the Sunday through service still run?

I'm not sure TBH.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Does the Sunday through service still run?

There are still Sheffield to Carlisle and Carlisle to Nottingham trains on Sundays.

 

[dk1]

There are still Sheffield to Carlisle and Carlisle to Nottingham trains on Sundays.

Cheers ta!

 

[YorksLad12]

I'm not liking the XC changes and the way they affect my regular services: the 0811 from Leeds to Sheffield and the 1721 back.

Monday: 4 cars down, HST back (with one door out of action).
Tuesday: 4 cars down, 4 cars back (which became a HST set at Leeds, annoyingly)
Wednesday: 4 cars down, HST back.

A 4-car set in the morning just doesn't work. It used to be 8 or 9. Even a 5 would help, but it's been 4 every day. On Tuesday, the conductor apologised for the overcrowding as a previous train (the 0804 Northern service to Nottingham) had been cancelled. True... but it was worse this morning, when the 0804 ran. So the overcrowding and people standing in the cabin as well as the vestibules was down to it being a 4-car. And I'm guessing it's a 4-car because the other set is being used elsewhere.

It's also not great for anyone in a wheelchair, as happened on Tuesday when there was no-one ready with a ramp to let than passnger off, while dozens of other passengers with suitcases were camping at the bit to board.

On a sidenote: the 0804 Northern to Nottingham is the only journey that leaves at xx04, all the others leave at xx09. Really annoying, as it marks time at Meadowhall for 5 minutes...

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The fact that XC would like to ‘reposition themselves’ as a long-distance operator does rather ignore some pretty obvious characteristics of the routes they serve.

 

[MikeWM]

...and why is it planned that two of the four down evening services will not actually stop at Cambridge North, while all four of the morning up services will do so?

I understand why they didn't while this was a historic and somewhat anomalous service, but now it has been 'regularised', it seems reasonable that all of them should call. The one that passes Cambridge North at 1822 would be particularly useful to stop, as it might help relieve the crowding usually seen on the 1834 to Norwich.

The mystery deepens with these services National Rail Enquiries and RTT show all 4 now stopping at Cambridge North this week - but seemingly only this week for the 1707 and 1807 ex-Liverpool Street, after which they revert to not stopping. The timetables on GA's website, and the NRT, still show that these two *don't* stop at North.

Is this stopping at CMB a short-term thing just for this week (and if so, why?), or will these services now regularly stop?

 

[YorksLad12]

The fact that XC would like to ‘reposition themselves’ as a long-distance operator does rather ignore some pretty obvious characteristics of the routes they serve.

York-Leeds-Wakefield-Sheffield is quite the commuter flow. That train gets you into Leeds before 8.15am, Wakefield before 8.30am and Sheffield before 9am (if running smoothly).

Another odd thing I noticed is that Monday to Wednesday the platform number was flashing on the CIS screens at Leeds to indicate a platform alteration (from P15 to P15A). This morning it was back to P15, but the platform screens didn't say it would be four cars. Cue everyone closer to the toilets and P15B scambling to find a vestibule to stand in...

 

[Class 170101]

The mystery deepens with these services National Rail Enquiries and RTT show all 4 now stopping at Cambridge North this week - but seemingly only this week for the 1707 and 1807 ex-Liverpool Street, after which they revert to not stopping. The timetables on GA's website, and the NRT, still show that these two *don't* stop at North.

Is this stopping at CMB a short-term thing just for this week (and if so, why?), or will these services now regularly stop?

1H82 and 2H82 normally split at Cambridge looking at RTT so 1H82 pass Cambridge North as people from London should be in the rear unit forming 2H82 which calls at Cambridge North. 2H82 is being formed off 5H20 this week rather than the split

1H86/2H88 looks the same as above now 2H48 becomes 2H88 and 1H86 doesn't appear to split so calls at Cambridge North.

I would hazard a guess that this might have something to do with the DfT and the money saving we have all been talking about.

Don't forget next week is mostly covered by strike action.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we please please keep this thread free to discuss the May 2023 timetable changes.

Discussion about the Whitby line can now be found here:

What could be done to make the Whitby line better?

In spite of the timetable change, services between West Yorkshire and Whitby continue to deteriorate. There's still no easement to enable people to use the cheaper route via Yarm for the 12:00 arrival in Whitby, except on Saturday, making it impossible any other day. The evening situation is...

www.railforums.co.uk

thanks all

 

[MikeWM]

1H82 and 2H82 normally split at Cambridge looking at RTT so 1H82 pass Cambridge North as people from London should be in the rear unit forming 2H82 which calls at Cambridge North. 2H82 is being formed off 5H20 this week rather than the split

1H86/2H88 looks the same as above now 2H48 becomes 2H88 and 1H86 doesn't appear to split so calls at Cambridge North.

I would hazard a guess that this might have something to do with the DfT and the money saving we have all been talking about.

Don't forget next week is mostly covered by strike action.

Very informative, thanks - I can see what 'should' be happening now. I wasn't aware there were any 720 workings that were due to split at Cambridge, but this makes sense.

I see they have now been VAR'ed to call at North today too, and also all next week according to RTT - but (so far) not after that.

 

[Class 170101]

I see they have now been VAR'ed to call at North today too, and also all next week according to RTT - but (so far) not after that.

Variations only usally appear week by week but can be daily or some days and not others based on previous experience of RTT.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Today's problems were mostly down to the serious issues between Cardiff and Newport rather than problems with the stock. Mostly they've been working pretty well the last couple of weeks, and there should be another set available by the time the diagrams increase. This is probably better discussed on the MKIV thread though. Suffice to say there shouldn't be any issues resourcing the Swanline.

Had a quick look today and they seem to be struggling with the increase in diagrams - of the 4 diagrams one is a 175 and one a pair of 153s!

 

[jfollows]

The May 2023 working timetable is finally available at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/

 

[nw1]

Equally the calls at some of the smaller stations such as Brockenhurst are not planned to increase either for reasons of capacity and performance.

A bit silly though IMV (and I said as such a few months ago) as they managed to stop at Brockenhurst from the late 80s to 2019. Did the Brockenhurst stop really cause big problems in the past? It must add - what - 2 minutes to perhaps the quietest part of the whole journey? So removing the stop adds 4 extra minutes to a half-hourly turnaround time - is this really worth doing, particularly as they got away with it during the busiest period for the railway in recent times, from around 2004-19?

 

[hexagon789]

A bit silly though IMV (and I said as such a few months ago) as they managed to stop at Brockenhurst from the late 80s to 2019. Did the Brockenhurst stop really cause big problems in the past? It must add - what - 2 minutes to perhaps the quietest part of the whole journey? So removing the stop adds 4 extra minutes to a half-hourly turnaround time - is this really worth doing, particularly as they got away with it during the busiest period for the railway in recent times, from around 2004-19?

It's capacity they said, same reason full calls at some other small stations haven't returned.

It was stated that XC envisaged omitting select stops in a future timetable change where local travel eats too much into their capacity. Or at least they'd like to do that.

 

[Kite159]

No doubt there are more local passengers who use XC between Wolverhampton & Birmingham + Birmingham to Coventry than there are local passengers who board at Southampton/Bournemouth to exit at Brockenhurst. So if XC wanted to get rid of local passengers who have plenty of other options (all be slower) then they would rip out the calls at Wolverhampton & Coventry.

 

[30907]

No doubt there are more local passengers who use XC between Wolverhampton & Birmingham + Birmingham to Coventry than there are local passengers who board at Southampton/Bournemouth to exit at Brockenhurst. So if XC wanted to get rid of local passengers who have plenty of other options (all be slower) then they would rip out the calls at Wolverhampton & Coventry.

...which they won't because of the loss of long-distance traffic from there.