May 2021 Timetable Change

[Bald Rick]

Maybe they're expecting more staycation daytrippers to Whitstable and Thanet?

‘They’ are. Indeed the sparse service put me going off there last weekend.

 

[tommy2215]

As per my post 915 abovethe following have yet to post timetable pdf files:

LNER
Transpennine Express
Scotrail
Great Northern
Thameslink
Southern
South Western Railway
London Overground
Merseyrail

At the bottom of Thameslink - Revised timetable (thameslinkrailway.com) there are links to the pdfs for the May 2021 timetable for Thameslink, Great Northern and Southern services

 

[Watershed]

Have TPE put up timetables in any format yet or is going to be a case of wait until the day after the changes again?

The only notable change is that the 07:34 ex-Scarborough is extended through to Leeds (and then returns to Scarborough at 09:27, forming the 10:00 off York). Just about everything else is the same as now.

 

[berneyarms]

At the bottom of Thameslink - Revised timetable (thameslinkrailway.com) there are links to the pdfs for the May 2021 timetable for Thameslink, Great Northern and Southern services

Cheers - they weren’t there yesterday.

 

[43066]

‘They’ are. Indeed the sparse service put me going off there last weekend.

Probably wise - one of the busiest trains I’ve ever been on was a spring weekend evening train from Whitstable back into town a few years back. It was absolutely crush loaded, with people being left behind on the platform.

The weather had been unseasonably nice (which is impossible to predict when timetables are set), but I was struck at the time that the service was woefully inadequate for the numbers using it.

 

[southern442]

Probably wise - one of the busiest trains I’ve ever been on was a spring weekend evening train from Whitstable back into town a few years back. It was absolutely crush loaded, with people being left behind on the platform.

The weather had been unseasonably nice (which is impossible to predict when timetables are set), but I was struck at the time that the service was woefully inadequate for the numbers using it.

Perhaps they naively assume that everyone will just use the High Speed service, when in fact many can't afford it!

 

[43066]

Perhaps they naively assume that everyone will just use the High Speed service, when in fact many can't afford it!

Whether routing via HS1 saves you any time at all very much depends on your ultimate destination in London.

 

[dk1]

Looks like 2 of the 3 daily GA services from Kings Lynn to Liverpool Street won't be coming back until September. I wonder if it's to do with route knowledge, as they seemed fairly well-used the few times I used them when they were still running between lockdowns.

Very few if any crewing issues at GA. They where one of the pioneers of 'bubble' working for training, route learning/refreshing so Covid has had little effect. Will be down to reduced demand & DfT requirements. Unit availability until 720s start taking over & the training involved might have an impact later.

 

[Ianno87]

Looks like 2 of the 3 daily GA services from Kings Lynn to Liverpool Street won't be coming back until September. I wonder if it's to do with route knowledge, as they seemed fairly well-used the few times I used them when they were still running between lockdowns.

Can't help but think there's no real need for them at present:
-City commuting from the Fen Line must be near-non-existent at the moment (and what there is can be covered by changing at Cambridge save for the single direct train)
-Capacity to/from Cambridge is provided by GTR's 8-car services.

 

[berneyarms]

www.tfwrail.wales/timetables/may-2021-timetables?fbclid=IwAR3KfgQdkIgNKVZWzUF6r4JEX36WMjb9CJbcYohb6N4D-qgNvhHrAeODZfc

I only discovered it through the link which I picked up by being passed on in FB. The TFW Website can be a minefield to navigate when you want to find something

They aren’t linked to anywhere.

Without that link you would never know they were there.

The Cambrian pdf appears to be missing.

 

[PHILIPE]

They aren’t linked to anywhere.

Without that link you would never know they were there.

The Cambrian pdf appears to be missing.

+

Somebody has recently Tweeted to TFW asking where they are as they have searched the Timetable Sections.

They are now in the obvious place, the Timetable Section. I have tweeted re missing Cambrian PDF

 

[peters]

Northern have now released the updated timetables for May. I haven't had a full look at them all, but both the Calder Valley and Liverpool - Manchester have temporary timetables running from the 16th - 30th May. I can't see anything major missing from the Calder Valley, but looks like the Liverpool - Manchester Airport service is temporarily withdrawn

Looks like most timetables have a valid to date in December, even though there are still missing services. Northern do mention elsewhere on their site that the new timetables are subject to review so there may be changes mid-timetable.

 

[DDB]

The idea was they would be diverted via Pontefract Baghill and Church Fenton rather than the route currently via Doncaster, so it isn't so much route retention as new route learning that would be required to reintroduce them. Understandably not a priority in the grand scheme of things when there's training to be done on 360s and 180s in the meantime for mainline crews.

Thanks that gives it more context. Looking at the route the remaining single weekday Leeds service I see they will already know and keep in date as far as Moorthorpe so slightly less new route learn when the time comes.

 

[berneyarms]

+

Somebody has recently Tweeted to TFW asking where they are as they have searched the Timetable Sections.

They are now in the obvious place, the Timetable Section. I have tweeted re missing Cambrian PDF

Not quite.
Try the timetable link at the bottom of the page!

 

[PHILIPE]

Not quite.
Try the timetable link at the bottom of the page!

Go to Website and open
Select "Travel Updates"
Select "Planning ahead"
Select "Timetable" and lo behold.

TFW have replied to Tweet re Cambrian and said that PDFs are not yet complete. Don't understand

 

[berneyarms]

Go to Website and open
Select "Travel Updates"
Select "Planning ahead"
Select "Timetable" and lo behold.

TFW have replied to Tweet re Cambrian and said that PDFs are not yet complete. Don't understand

I know where they are.

The problem is that they have two different “timetable” sections on the website.

One has them and one doesn’t.

They should both be pointing at the same place.

I am also acutely aware of the Twitter interaction.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2021 ==

Transpennine Express timetables are now up.

So still outstanding at this point are:

LNER
Scotrail
South Western Railway
London Overground
Merseyrail

 

[E6007]

I know where they are.

The problem is that they have two different “timetable” sections on the website.

One has them and one doesn’t.

They should both be pointing at the same place.

I am also acutely aware of the Twitter interaction.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2021 ==

Transpennine Express timetables are now up.

So still outstanding at this point are:

LNER
Scotrail
South Western Railway
London Overground
Merseyrail

London NorthWestern is not complete, for example timetable A Birmingham / Northampton to Euston is only valid until 15th May 2021.

 

[387star]

Looks like 2 of the 3 daily GA services from Kings Lynn to Liverpool Street won't be coming back until September. I wonder if it's to do with route knowledge, as they seemed fairly well-used the few times I used them when they were still running between lockdowns.

Greater anglia will likely cease going to Kings Lynn by May 2022 according to a document I have seen

 

[mrd269697]

Changing the topic slightly - the new timetables from TFW are disappointing- and appear to be thoughtlessly planned. The last train on the Borderlands Line has not ran since the first lockdown, meaning the last train from Wrexham towards Bidston leaves as early at 8pm. However on sundays, the last train is after 9pm.

same on the conwy valley line, last train Monday - Saturday leaves Llandudno at not long after 4pm, which is disgraceful. Though on sundays there’s an evening train.

North Wales coast line, is as always, an absolute mess with no attempt to simplify the timetable, with unusual frequencies and random calling patterns which don’t seem to make sense. Shotton low level has a very poor service with trains averaging less than hourly despite it serving a larger conurbation than neighbouring flint.

Cambrian Line trains to Aberystwyth have not regained their hourly service, the only one appearing back to full strength is the heart of Wales line.

have not seen South Wales timetables but I imagine it’s a similar pattern.

 

[OFFDN]

Greater anglia will likely cease going to Kings Lynn by May 2022 according to a document I have seen

This is likely to happen, and has been a long term plan for many years now. The date has never been set in stone but looks like it will finally happen with various new fleets and cascades finally taking shape.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Changing the topic slightly - the new timetables from TFW are disappointing- and appear to be thoughtlessly planned. The last train on the Borderlands Line has not ran since the first lockdown, meaning the last train from Wrexham towards Bidston leaves as early at 8pm. However on sundays, the last train is after 9pm.

same on the conwy valley line, last train Monday - Saturday leaves Llandudno at not long after 4pm, which is disgraceful. Though on sundays there’s an evening train.

North Wales coast line, is as always, an absolute mess with no attempt to simplify the timetable, with unusual frequencies and random calling patterns which don’t seem to make sense. Shotton low level has a very poor service with trains averaging less than hourly despite it serving a larger conurbation than neighbouring flint.

Cambrian Line trains to Aberystwyth have not regained their hourly service, the only one appearing back to full strength is the heart of Wales line.

have not seen South Wales timetables but I imagine it’s a similar pattern.

Without wishing to ignite a different debate, the PDFs now put Welsh first in terms of station names and in notes, even in England.
So we now have to cope with Dwyrain Runcorn and Dwyrain Didsbury, and also Parcffordd De Lerpwl and Telford Canolog.
Yr Heledd Wen for Nantwich is a new one on me, also Birmingham Rhyngwladol (International).
At least we are spared Manceinion Heol Rhydychen (Oxford Road) and Fictoria (Victoria) - which I have seen in ATW timetables before.

I find the spidery script ATW/TfW use for normal (through) trains (red for connections) to be quite difficult to read - Avanti and Northern show through trains in bold.
I also note that the NT Chester-Leeds trains vanish at Newton-le-Willows, no mention of a stop in Manchester.
Actually it seems they are only shown if they stop west of Warrington (and none are shown westbound).
And still no Holyhead-Cardiff trains (there are some Holyhead-Birminghams).

 

[PHILIPE]

Changing the topic slightly - the new timetables from TFW are disappointing- and appear to be thoughtlessly planned. The last train on the Borderlands Line has not ran since the first lockdown, meaning the last train from Wrexham towards Bidston leaves as early at 8pm. However on sundays, the last train is after 9pm.

same on the conwy valley line, last train Monday - Saturday leaves Llandudno at not long after 4pm, which is disgraceful. Though on sundays there’s an evening train.

North Wales coast line, is as always, an absolute mess with no attempt to simplify the timetable, with unusual frequencies and random calling patterns which don’t seem to make sense. Shotton low level has a very poor service with trains averaging less than hourly despite it serving a larger conurbation than neighbouring flint.

Cambrian Line trains to Aberystwyth have not regained their hourly service, the only one appearing back to full strength is the heart of Wales line.

have not seen South Wales timetables but I imagine it’s a similar pattern.

Obviously this is a rant about TFW and posting it on the Forum will not make the slightest bit of difference, but I'll try and provide some answers.
The Timetable is virtually a copy of the current COVID related Timetable with reductions across the Network as money still has to be found to compensate for a reduction in revenue from passengers hence the cutting back of some late night trains as well as many others throughout the day There are cutbacks across the South also..
A big factor is a shortage of traincrews, and which applies across the country, where drivers have still been retiring and their replacements have had their training delayed due to social distancing reasons. There has also been traction training which has had to be carried out and has been progressing albeit at a slower pace. What TFW have done is to provide a sustainable and more reliable service level rather than attempt to operate a service that would be riddled with ad hoc short notice cancellations for lack of train crew.
The North Wales coast is a bit of a pathing and calling nightmare but which was better before withdrawal of the hourly Llandudno to Manchester services and paths still have to fit in with handover times of trains from the Shrewsbury and Manchester directions and also Avanti as well as taking turn round times at Holyhead into account. It is hoped to gradually introduce the Mark 4 carriages throughout the Summer, firstly between Shrewsbury and Holyhead and then extending to Cardiff so the Timetable could have been prepared to slot the alterations in easily. One annoying thing along the Coast, and which has been mentioned in another thread, is that although at uneven times, an hourly service has been maintained but leaves a two hour gap for some stations and I can identify one such train which causes a problem for day trippers returning home. 1J98 1642 (1650 from May) Holyhead to Shrewsbury currently calls at Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn and Flint but from May runs non-stop from Llandudno Jcn to Shotton.
In the south, many Cardiff Valley routes see up to a 50% reduction in services throughout the day and the last trains at night..
I don't think we shall see any real improvement until COVID is effectively under control.

 

[AJS90]

Just had a look at the PDF’s for the new EMR timetable and I’m impressed with what I’ve seen.
Slightly disappointed with one of two things though; no Sunday morning service on the North Staffs line, two hourly instead of hourly Lincoln - Grimsby, failure to provide a clock face hourly service between Lincoln and Peterborough and there’s still a substandard Sunday service on the Robin Hood line. Are these improvements still planned for a latter date?

 

[_toommm_]

Just had a look at the PDF’s for the new EMR timetable and I’m impressed with what I’ve seen.
Slightly disappointed with one of two things though; no Sunday morning service on the North Staffs line, two hourly instead of hourly Lincoln - Grimsby, failure to provide a clock face hourly service between Lincoln and Peterborough and there’s still a substandard Sunday service on the Robin Hood line. Are these improvements still planned for a latter date?

I believe the North Staffordshire line has no early morning service due to the signal boxes only being open for one shift on that line on Sundays, so you just have afternoon and evening services.

 

[PHILIPE]

I believe the North Staffordshire line has no early morning service due to the signal boxes only being open for one shift on that line on Sundays, so you just have afternoon and evening services.

This has been the subject of complaint for many years now.

 

[LowLevel]

Just had a look at the PDF’s for the new EMR timetable and I’m impressed with what I’ve seen.
Slightly disappointed with one of two things though; no Sunday morning service on the North Staffs line, two hourly instead of hourly Lincoln - Grimsby, failure to provide a clock face hourly service between Lincoln and Peterborough and there’s still a substandard Sunday service on the Robin Hood line. Are these improvements still planned for a latter date?

A number of things are planned for May 2022 if I remember rightly, including hourly Grimsby, Sunday Robin Hoods to Worksop, Sunday Ivanhoes etc.

Joint line (Lincoln - Peterborough) clockface timetables are difficult as you have to fit the passenger service around the freight - the route was upgraded for freight trains primarily and trains bound for places like Felixstowe are very rigidly pathed. At some point it will be an hourly Peterborough - Doncaster though.

This is an interim change.

 

[AJS90]

I believe the North Staffordshire line has no early morning service due to the signal boxes only being open for one shift on that line on Sundays, so you just have afternoon and evening services.

Is this something Network Rail are looking to improve upon?

 

[Watershed]

Is this something Network Rail are looking to improve upon?

Network Rail usually only improve these kinds of things if given specific funding by the TOC that requests longer opening hours. So unless there is funding for EMR to pay NR then it's not going to happen.

 

[AJS90]

Network Rail usually only improve these kinds of things if given specific funding by the TOC that requests longer opening hours. So unless there is funding for EMR to pay NR then it's not going to happen.

Do we know if this is something EMR / DfT are planning on doing, especially if there are more EMR timetable improvements yet to come?

 

[Llandudno]

Obviously this is a rant about TFW and posting it on the Forum will not make the slightest bit of difference, but I'll try and provide some answers.
The Timetable is virtually a copy of the current COVID related Timetable with reductions across the Network as money still has to be found to compensate for a reduction in revenue from passengers hence the cutting back of some late night trains as well as many others throughout the day There are cutbacks across the South also..
A big factor is a shortage of traincrews, and which applies across the country, where drivers have still been retiring and their replacements have had their training delayed due to social distancing reasons. There has also been traction training which has had to be carried out and has been progressing albeit at a slower pace. What TFW have done is to provide a sustainable and more reliable service level rather than attempt to operate a service that would be riddled with ad hoc short notice cancellations for lack of train crew.
The North Wales coast is a bit of a pathing and calling nightmare but which was better before withdrawal of the hourly Llandudno to Manchester services and paths still have to fit in with handover times of trains from the Shrewsbury and Manchester directions and also Avanti as well as taking turn round times at Holyhead into account. It is hoped to gradually introduce the Mark 4 carriages throughout the Summer, firstly between Shrewsbury and Holyhead and then extending to Cardiff so the Timetable could have been prepared to slot the alterations in easily. One annoying thing along the Coast, and which has been mentioned in another thread, is that although at uneven times, an hourly service has been maintained but leaves a two hour gap for some stations and I can identify one such train which causes a problem for day trippers returning home. 1J98 1642 (1650 from May) Holyhead to Shrewsbury currently calls at Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn and Flint but from May runs non-stop from Llandudno Jcn to Shotton.
In the south, many Cardiff Valley routes see up to a 50% reduction in services throughout the day and the last trains at night..
I don't think we shall see any real improvement until COVID is effectively under control.

The 1642 may not be the main problem the issue maybe that the next train some two hours later will be rammed if the sun shines and what’s the betting it will be a two car Class 150!