May 09 ECML major timetable changes

[jon0844]

I thought I'd create a new thread because today is the start of the big change to the FCC timetable, with 'new' rolling stock, longer trains and some rather major changes to inner and outer suburban stopping patterns.

Now, there are sure to be teething problems but this morning didn't inspire confidence.

The new 0902 Hat - KGX service, shown on the front as 'Not in svc', was running late, having started from Hitchin late. It crawled along, and with no stopping service close ahead I presume it may have been a train fault - but it did get stuck behind a Hertford North - Moorgate train, the one that I should have been able to connect with according to the new timetable.

As both trains use the slow line, I wonder if this is going to be a regular problem - namely getting put in behind the stopper if it's late to Bounds Green/Alexandra Palace? There's only 4 minutes between them.

Back to Hatfield, and it was rather odd to see a FCC service stopping on platform 3 (the fast line) and a NXEC train passing through on the slow (platform 4)! What's that all about?!

The main changes are to the paths through the Digswell Viaduct, so I wonder how that is going to work throughout the day. Is there now more scope for recovery, or is this morning a sign that things are even tighter?

 

[stut]

Was quite relieved to see the 0726 ex-PBO was still a 365.

We did get an announcement, queuing up at FPK, though, along the lines of "sorry, folks, it's a new timetable. They won't have it sorted 'til Friday." Commuters laughed knowingly.

 

[jon0844]

FPK had problems of its own this morning, with no access via the spiral staircases to the underground (lack of safety equipment, which could simply have been lack of working CCTV or something).

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Tonight, I hope what I saw is not going to be repeated regularly.

The 1818 Moorgate to Letchworth train (2F53) left Finsbury Park 3 minutes late and was crush loaded to the extreme - and there were still more people trying to get on. I don't think I've ever seen so many faces pressed up against the glass!

I also saw the 321 in action as it passed through Potters Bar at 1849, having come from Cambridge.

Earlier, there was lots of commotion at King's Cross with platform alterations all over the place. It's also going to be confusing with two 1814 FCC departures. The staff were very confused and were all consulting the new timetable (which they were handing out to confused passengers).

I chuckled to myself when I saw NXEC doing a barrier check for one of their services leaving platform 6, but with a FCC train leaving platform 7 a few minutes later, they eventually realised they couldn't check anyone as the entrance to platform 7 was open and unmanned!

 

[me123]

Was 2F53 a 3 or 6 car service?

 

[jon0844]

6-car, and for the sake of clarification, this was via Hertford North.

 

[me123]

Eep! hock:

 

[whoosh]

Earlier, there was lots of commotion at King's Cross with platform alterations all over the place. It's also going to be confusing with two 1814 FCC departures. The staff were very confused and were all consulting the new timetable (which they were handing out to confused passengers).

Now that's just silly! One of them should have an 'advertised departure' of 18:13, but remaining 18:14 in the Working TimeTable (WTT). This would save a lot of confusion. (Well it would actually be written 18p14 in the WTT then, the 'p' standing for 'advertised one minute earlier', so it would still be distinguishable from the one remaining at 18:14 to staff too.)
I think the same problem applies at 17:44 and 18:44 from what I remember. It's bad really - just needs to be a different advertised departures to distinguish the trains.

 

[jon0844]

I think it's going to take a while for people to work out the best train to get. I downloaded the new timetable about a year or two ago (when it was due in December 2008) so I was pretty well prepared - and, touch wood, it's all worked out better for me. That meeting I had in 2006 with FCC obviously paid off.

The trains from Moorgate have changed around (again, good for me - my train goes 5 minutes later from Old Street so less rushing from the office), so perhaps there's one less train to Hertford North/Letchworth?

 

[stut]

I think some of the confusion will also be from regular commuters, used to 'their' train going from a specific platform 99% of the time, going on autopilot, then seeing another train there, and finding most of the departure boards off to 'ease crowding'...

Personally, it works well for me going to/from BIW, as my regular trains are relieved by earlier services up the line being extended and retimed.

I did notice, though, some 7-minute turnarounds at peak time on the PBO services. Surely this is asking for trouble? Even a couple of minutes delay on the inbound means a ridiculously short time to get to what can be a far platform, and the train going out uncleaned - and that's the best case scenario!

 

[jopsuk]

Looked at Cambridge like people were still waiting on the platform for the back third of the 0745- rather than boarding the whole new extra set of four carriages. Didn't get to see it properly, but I'm betting the back section (which comes from Kings Lynn) was still packed whilst the front section (at the far end of the platform, possibly halfway to London in some eyes) would likely have been quiet. But of course, "thier seat" is in the back section, isn't it? Creatures of habit.

 

[jon0844]

I heard a lady at Hatfield moaning this morning that while there were more trains in the morning to London (and the 0902 is awesome - one stop to FPK, two to KGX!), there were less in the evening - and only slow ones to WGC. In truth, there are as many WGC stopper trains as before and the xx52 and xx22 semi-fast trains are simply leaving 5 minutes later - different platforms though. I know platforms aren't always fixed, but the 52/22 trains nearly always used platform 10. Yesterday, the 1757 was platform 9, the 1827 was platform 7!

As far as I can see, there's not been any reduction in services to Hatfield at all - but having adjusted the calling patterns, the semi-fast to WGC is now a lot emptier than before (actually, stopping these trains short of Letchworth and Royston changed in December last year).

Besides rush hour, they run a regular clockface timetable from KGX pretty much all day (xx06 and xx36) right up to 0136 - with the odd exception of the 1940! The 1906 is always a nightmare, as it used to be 4-car (maybe still is) and is the first off-peak service, and usually crush loaded too. I'd avoid that like the plague unless you're at King's Cross early enough to board before everyone else has.

(I think it's time now for a mod to change my name from jonmorris0844 to jonmorris0902!!)

 

[stut]

I'm not surprised by the people waiting at Cambridge - one of the pleasures of commuting at a fixed time over a distance is that it can be pleasantly sociable. Un-Perrin-like as it is, we outer commuters often hold conversations with our co-commuters, and it brightens up the journey no end. It's no surprise that many of us have our favourite seats.

All seemed smooth this morning, until... We had someone taken ill on board, and an unscheduled stop at WGC. A 10-minute delay as a result really isn't bad, though.

 

[Aictos]

Tonight, I hope what I saw is not going to be repeated regularly.

The 1818 Moorgate to Letchworth train (2F53) left Finsbury Park 3 minutes late and was crush loaded to the extreme - and there were still more people trying to get on. I don't think I've ever seen so many faces pressed up against the glass!

I also saw the 321 in action as it passed through Potters Bar at 1849, having come from Cambridge.

Earlier, there was lots of commotion at King's Cross with platform alterations all over the place. It's also going to be confusing with two 1814 FCC departures. The staff were very confused and were all consulting the new timetable (which they were handing out to confused passengers).

I chuckled to myself when I saw NXEC doing a barrier check for one of their services leaving platform 6, but with a FCC train leaving platform 7 a few minutes later, they eventually realised they couldn't check anyone as the entrance to platform 7 was open and unmanned!

I've looked at the passenger timetable and one 1814 is for Kings Lynn with the first stop being Cambridge and the other 1814 is for Peterborough.

Now I can only hope people do check what the destination screens are saying as there's going to be quite a few really ****ed off people who wanted stations to Peterborough getting off the train at Cambridge and wondering how the **** they got there.

It has happened before, I get people at Hertford North wanting Hatfield!

As to the 1818, that doesn't surprise me at all - the trains can't be lengthen any longer as there's a 6 car limit on the line, to have 9 cars running around the place means all platforms being lengthened including these on the NCL plus more stock.

It won't happen, full stop!

 

[Snapper]

Here's a shot of the 321s out on 1P21 yesterday:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p58312997.html

 

[doubleseat]

My observations on Day 2 on these FCC GN changes.

1. As a WGC commuter how has the "seat for me" strategy made any change in the morning. 07.54 still arrives packed and thats the full length of 8 cars.

2. Going home the 17.22 is a nice idea but 4 cars means its rammed, certainly was last night.

3. The 17.27 is also 4 cars, no doubt packed too?

4. If either was 8 cars I think there would be much greater buy in to the changes. However as WGC commuter my return journey is now dreaded.

Not happy.

 

[Edvid]

Here's a shot of the 321s out on 1P21 yesterday:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/p58312997.html

It's amazing how the minimal use of white on the side appears to be much greater from that angle.

 

[jon0844]

Not happy.

The 1727 should be a 6-car (certainly seemed to be yesterday) just as the former 1722 was before it in the last timetable. If it's 4-car (due to stock shortages and it being replaced), you are aware that you'll be able to sit in first class? I took the 1727 and it was 6-car and not crowded at all - because people to stations beyond WGC now have a different train to use. It's annoying not to have fast trains until 1906 (but for WGC I guess you had the 1806 which was Finsbury Park and WGC - has that gone?) but a 313 can still go fairly quick and there aren't that many additional stops (3 - New Southgate, Oakleigh Park, New Barnet) over the 06/36 trains. As they're leaving earlier, they get me to Hatfield at the same time (2 mins earlier) as the faster ones anyway.

I don't think they can run 8-car trains as they need to lock out the rear door at one station (can't remember which, New Southgate or Oakleigh Park?) and that means having to have staff on board to literally block it off. I've seen them do this before, but not in the last year or so - as it may have been considered unsafe?

Speed aside, there are plenty of trains to WGC. Trains every 20 minutes from Moorgate, which are never really full (at worst, they'll be fairly busy until New Southgate or Oakleigh Park - but I bet you'd get a seat) and it's pretty easy to get any train from King's Cross to Finsbury Park and change - just walking from platform 5 to 6.

If this new timetable works and FCC eventually get more 313s, there is the plan to run the slow trains every 15 minutes. Coupled with the half hourly fast trains, WGC will be extremely well served - and with so many trains starting from there, you'll always get a seat. The 'turn up and go' idea will turn the inner-suburban route into something more akin to the tube.

Update: Just seen that the 1727 is indeed down as 4-car (but no first class). Odd as the others before and after are all 6-car.

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1P22 1650 London Kings Cross to Peterborough (321 8-car) has just failed at Finsbury Park. Unable to close rear set of doors!

Managed to look at front set and it does look pretty grubby inside. I hope this doesn't show a sign of long term reliability issues.

Photos & video: http://gallery.me.com/jmcomms#100109

 

[stut]

Well, the 1814 was a welcome treat last night (rather than the 1823 which arrived at the same time as the 1837, give or take), but it was full of confused people on the phone home saying how they'd never seen this train before...

This morning was a better show: although we did have a bit of a queue before Digswell, we still made it into the Cruz del Rey on time.

 

[jon0844]

I think FCC needs to update the CIS systems as my new morning train is either Not in Svc or totally blank. No announcements, no screen text.. not exactly DDA compliant!

If a fair few trains have had stopping patterns changed, does this mean FCC has simply turned off all the displays and announcers? If so, not good. Might even get them in a bit of trouble.

 

[ungreat]

It's amazing how the minimal use of white on the side appears to be much greater from that angle.

There is no white on the sides....thats the natural light shining on the sides
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I don't think they can run 8-car trains as they need to lock out the rear door at one station (can't remember which, New Southgate or Oakleigh Park?) and that means having to have staff on board to literally block it off. I've seen them do this before, but not in the last year or so - as it may have been considered unsafe?

We can and do run 8 cars to those stations.....dont know where you've seen this happen but can assure you we have no staff travel on board to do that! Both stations are capable of having 8 car services
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think FCC needs to update the CIS systems as my new morning train is either Not in Svc or totally blank. No announcements, no screen text.. not exactly DDA compliant!

If a fair few trains have had stopping patterns changed, does this mean FCC has simply turned off all the displays and announcers? If so, not good. Might even get them in a bit of trouble.

The 321's have no stops programmed into the displays as yet...also many of the previous stopping patterns prior to the new timetable had no corresponding route number to program into the systems on 317s and 365s,so dont expect anything just yet.

 

[Edvid]

So what's painted around the doors of 401 ([1] [2]) then?

 

[jon0844]

I've been on 8-car 365s that needed (and did have) RPIs that protected the rear set of doors at one station northbound - with the result that in subsequent timetable changes, it became a 6-car train, or a 4-car.

Now it may have been down to the specific platform/line, or even maintenance work meaning it was a temporary restriction, but whatever it was - these trains obviously had an issue at one station. And the stopping pattern was New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet - so it was definitely one of these.

The non-First-liveried 321 didn't even appear to have screens inside, so do all five have them or just some?

 

[Pumbaa]

The non-First-liveried 321 didn't even appear to have screens inside, so do all five have them or just some?

FCC have put PIS inside the bins? That's a luxury we have never had!! And to answer your posts ages ago, the "tired NSE interior" we have been stuck with since, well, NSE!!

 

[MCR247]

FCC have put PIS inside the bins? That's a luxury we have never had!! And to answer your posts ages ago, the "tired NSE interior" we have been stuck with since, well, NSE!!

no I dont think so, i think he meant on the outside, but I'm not sure. NXEA have put in PIS displays i think