• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Maximum speed of HST with one dead power car

Status
Not open for further replies.

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
As said, there is no speed restriction on a HST with only one power-car, it is still able to travel at linespeed, it just takes forever to get there. If I have a powercar out, I reckon about an extra 3-5 minutes between stops (doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up over a run).
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

hello

Member
Joined
10 Jun 2008
Messages
231
I was on a day's HST bashing a few years back, when the GNER HST I was on failed at Cheltenham with a electrical fault.It was arranged for it to work via Kidderminster to get to Birmingham.As soon as we had the OK for this, the power car started working properly again! The Guard was a fellow enthusiast and admitted to me privately (I was the only one in first) wanting to have an HST via this route.Had he admitted this to the rest of the train they would probably (metaphorically) have torn him limb from limb as there were many on board worried about missed connections at New Street.We got routed via Droitwich and New Street arriving about an hour late, and everywhere we went people and rail staff were hurriedly getting their cameras out to photograph out train.

The only time I was ever on an HST running on one power car was on the Midland Main Line in 1994, when the rear power car was the only one running.The run was made the more memorable when I was leaning out of the window at Kettering, when lightning struck the ground in a field 100 metres away from the train.I reckon the performance was roughly on a par with a 47 and seven mark 2's from what I could remember (we got 110mph down Sharnbrook- rather faster than a 47 although this was not entirely unknown in pre-OTMS BR days)

would have been 2+9
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
19,748
Following robbed from the SA for one engine HSTs only..

Lines over which assistance must always be provided
Exeter St David’s to Exeter Central. Up direction only.

Par and Newquay. Assistance must be provided on the front in the Down direction. In the Up direction the assisting locomotive should not normally apply power and MUST NOT apply power when approaching AOCL level crossings.

Swansea Loop West Jn to Cockett Tunnel. Down direction only.

Lines over which assistance must be provided under certain conditions

• Newton Abbot to Plymouth

• Plymouth to Newton Abbot (train may proceed as far as Tavistock Jn if this would facilitate assistance)

• Paignton to Newton Abbot

• Par to St Austell

• Bromsgrove to Blackwell

• Llandeilo Junction to Cockett Tunnel

• Fishguard Harbour to Clarbeston Road Junction


If any of the following circumstances apply in respect of the above sections, assistance must be provided:

a) the train comprises more than 8 trailer vehicles.

b) rail head conditions in the area concerned are reported as poor, for example during falling snow, severe frost, drizzle or period of leaf fall.

c) other technical problems exist with the train, to which the Driver or the train operator’s Fleet Controller will draw attention.

d) signalling equipment failures or temporary/ emergency speed restrictions exist in the section preventing an unchecked run being made.

Authority to proceed unassisted over the lines listed in 2. above.

For trains comprising not more than 8 trailer vehicles, an “HST Authority to Proceed Unassisted” form may be issued provided that none of the circumstances listed in clause 2 exist and that the following arrangements are made:

a) Operations Control must obtain the permission of the appropriate train operator’s Fleet Controller.

b) Operations Control must ascertain that local weather conditions are suitable, and arrange (as far as is practicable) with the controlling Signaller for a “clear run” to be provided as indicated below:


Signal E90 (West of Newton Abbot) to Signal E94 (West of Dainton)

Signal E94 (West of Dainton)to Signal DM227 (Marley Tunnel)
Applicable only to trains formed with 8 trailer vehicles. Train must not stop at Totnes or be routed via the Down Platform Line thereat.

Signal E98/E198 (Totnes) to Signal DM227 (Marley Tunnel)
Applies to trains formed with 7 trailer vehicles or less.

Signal E3/E203 (Totnes) to Signal E7 (East of Dainton)

Plymouth Station to Signal UM235 (Ivybridge)

Par to St Austell

Signal E190 (West of Newton Abbot) to Paignton
Applies only to trains formed with 8 trailer vehicles. Train must not stop at Torquay.

Paignton to Signal E109 (West of Newton Abbot) Applies only to trains formed with 8 trailer vehicles. Train must not stop at Torquay.

Torquay to Signal E109 (West of Newton Abbot)
Applies only to trains formed of 7 trailer vehicles or less.

Signal G.63 (Oddingley) to Signal SY.1 (Blackwell)
Applies only to trains formed with 6 trailer vehicles or more.

Signal G.67 (near Stoke Works Junction) to Signal SY.1 (Blackwell)
Applies only to trains formed with 5 trailer vehicles or less.

Signal PT255 (Llandeilo Jn) to Signal PT.261 (Cockett)
 
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
634
Location
Carmarthen
theres nothing to explain apart from thats just how it is, has been for years. picks up a slip of paper at cnm which guarantees you a clear run from oddingly

the reason I asked about it is because in a post on page 1, Old Timer is claiming an HST with only one power car working is not permitted up the Lickey.
 
Last edited:

Pinza55007

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2011
Messages
12
Hi

I just wanted to clarify my post.The GNER HST I was on was a summer dated working and it was on loan to Virgin/Arriva Cross Country.The Malverns were a slightly disorientating, but pleasant sight to behold out of the window at one point.We passed a Midland Mainline HST in the opposite direction between Bristol Parkway and Cheltenham, so other operator's HSTS were about.

The HSTs I travelled on that day were an MTU FGW HST from Paddington to Bristol TM (with the green 1st class seats), the Valenta powered GNER set from Bristol TM to Derby via Kidderminster, and VP185 set from Derby to London. Pricey using walk-on fares but well worth it!
 

Jobsworth

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2011
Messages
31
The last post by 'The Planner' is the definitive position on the old Western Region. The decision to run OEO is also based on whether any power notches have been isolated on the 'good' power car plus any other factors such as known overheating problems and high ambient temperatures. Railhead conditions also have to be factored in.

The rear power car powering is better because up to 36 wheelsets will have cleaned the railheads ahead of it and the effect of pushing forces the power car to dig in for better adhesion. This is particularly so during times of poor railhead conditions e.g. damp mornings in the leaf fall season.

If the dead power car is completely dead, the good power car has to sacrifice about 250 hp for auxiliary train supply throughout the set. If the dead power car can have it's engine running but not supply traction power, it can normally be used to provide auxiliary power supply allowing the good power car to use all its power for traction purposes.

The reason for all this is because one power car does not have sufficient power to pull away on steep gradients and will stall, potentially causing damage to traction motors. However, it does have the power to maintain forward motion if it hits the bottom of most gradients on the run, hence the Sectional Appendix states that a clear run must be guaranteed. If the train comes to a stand while running under these conditions, the driver is not allowed to attempt a restart but must call for assistance. Certain gradients e.g. St David's Bank are considered too severe for OEO running because of the excessive gradient, sharp curvature and restricted approach speed.

Back in Valenta days, 110 mph was achievable with ease given a sufficient clear run on Brunel's billiard table.
 

scottishchris

Member
Joined
4 May 2011
Messages
65
I remember once during a weekend possession of the ECML a few years back, GNER (I think at the time!) was running between NCL and EDB via the WCML. Somewhere north of Carlisle, the train gave a judder and my window suddenly gained a new coating of oil. The front power car of the HST had failed in what I was guessing was a fairly terminal way!

Noticing this, another passenger asked the guard when he next walked through if we'd make it back ok-guard advised we would, but we'd lose a bit of time.

Anyway, along comes Shap, train gets slower and slower until eventually we grind to a halt. Cue a few attempts over the next hour or so that feel like a learner driver letting the handbrake off too early during a hillstart and we get the feeling that it could take a while to get back to EDB!

Bear in mind that this means the ECML is closed in both directions and the WCML is now blocked northbound.

After what must have been about an hour and a half of being fed free sandwiches cut into quarters from the buffet (1st class definitely has its priviliges!), a 67 was buttoned on, and off we go on our merry way to EDB. Point of the story is that an HST on one power car+Shap does not a good combination make!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top