Matlock Branch - train lengths

[WesternLancer]

Hi anyone happen to know if Matlock Branch services are 2 car typically or being strengthened for distancing reasons at the moment? EG add on of a 153 to make 3 cars.
It's at weekends that I'm interested in, and I can imagine it's a popular destination.

(assuming it's not down to a single car 153 at the moment! )

 

[Hairy Bear]

Normally a 156 , 158. Only occasionally strengthened with a 153.

 

[WesternLancer]

Normally a 156 , 158. Only occasionally strengthened with a 153.

Thanks! I'll use the EMR busy train indicator to help choose travel times.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Shortest platform length on the Matlock branch at Whatstandwell?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Shortest platform length on the Matlock branch at Whatstandwell?

Not sure what question is being asked here.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not sure what question is being asked here.

Shortest platform on the Matlock line may may limit what can be run.

Whatstandwell is the shortest platform on the line, isn't it?

 

[43055]

Thanks! I'll use the EMR busy train indicator to help choose travel times.

The EMR train indicator also shows the number of seats which you can then work out the number of coaches.

 

[Llandudno]

I don’t think you will have too many issues with capacity on the Matlock branch at the moment.

Matlock Bath illuminations cancelled, and obviously no live sports events in Derby or Nottingham to attend, although up to 600 are allowed in to watch Matlock Town v Ashton this Saturday at 3pm!

 

[43055]

Shortest platform on the Matlock line may may limit what can be run.

Whatstandwell is the shortest platform on the line, isn't it?

The Quail track map that I have shows Whatstandwell having a 3 car platform. Looking at the EMR busy trains page the first and last Sunday services have 296 seats which would suggest a double 156 (148 seats). All other trains look to be a single 156 or 158.

 

[LA50041]

I don’t think you will have too many issues with capacity on the Matlock branch at the moment.

Matlock Bath illuminations cancelled, and obviously no live sports events in Derby or Nottingham to attend, although up to 600 are allowed in to watch Matlock Town v Ashton this Saturday at 3pm!

Was up at Matlock bath a couple of weeks ago and there were a fair few people getting off of trains at around 10.00 and 13.30 to visit the Abraham heights At the weekend

edit to add To answer OP ,all 2 car trains seen by myself

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks all - helpful stuff.

I note the EMR seat finder thing lists most trains as either 148 seats or 138 seats, which I guess is maybe the difference between a 156 and a 158 seating capacity wise, as per @43055 post above.

Doesn't look like plans to strengthen it for the Matlock Town fixture on Saturday!

 

[STINT47]

All trains on Saturday that I have seen are two cars and at times they are busy.

Getting on at Duffield gong south I have had to stand in the vestibule till Derby and then most seats are still occupied.

What's disappointing is that the 'new' local fleet will mainly consist of two car 170s si this issue will not get better but at least we don't have a si gle 153 on illumination nights anymore.

 

[High Dyke]

Thanks all - helpful stuff.

I note the EMR seat finder thing lists most trains as either 148 seats or 138 seats, which I guess is maybe the difference between a 156 and a 158 seating capacity wise, as per @43055 post above.

Doesn't look like plans to strengthen it for the Matlock Town fixture on Saturday!

Never usually much cause for home fixtures there.

 

[ChrisC]

It isn’t just capacity on the Matlock line. Most of EMR local services seem to be very busy on Saturday afternoons. Perhaps numbers going into Nottingham may reduce if the expected local lockdown throughout Nottinghamshire happens next week.

It may continue to be a problem in the future if most of the 170s are going to be 2 car and won’t be able to be strengthened by the addition of a 153 as is currently happening on some routes. I seem to remember that EMT lost the centre carriages from some 158s at the beginning if the last franchise causing overcrowding. Why does this keep happening to the East Midlands.

 

[computerSaysNo]

It isn’t just capacity on the Matlock line. Most of EMR local services seem to be very busy on Saturday afternoons. Perhaps numbers going into Nottingham may reduce if the expected local lockdown throughout Nottinghamshire happens next week.

It may continue to be a problem in the future if most of the 170s are going to be 2 car and won’t be able to be strengthened by the addition of a 153 as is currently happening on some routes. I seem to remember that EMT lost the centre carriages from some 158s at the beginning if the last franchise causing overcrowding. Why does this keep happening to the East Midlands.

I think physically/electrically, 170s can be attached to 153s in service; I've seen 170s run with 156s before, which are similar (though it isn't common and I couldn't guarantee it was in passenger service). That said, I'm not sure if the EMR 153s have been modified for accessibility, and if they haven't, whether the rules on accessibility would allow them to be run with an accessible but non-gangway unit.

 

[ChrisC]

I think physically/electrically, 170s can be attached to 153s in service; I've seen 170s run with 156s before, which are similar (though it isn't common and I couldn't guarantee it was in passenger service). That said, I'm not sure if the EMR 153s have been modified for accessibility, and if they haven't, whether the rules on accessibility would allow them to be run with an accessible but non-gangway unit.

I was thinking further ahead to when all local EMR are planned to be 170s. By then all the 153s will have gone and if most of the 170s are only 2 carriages there won’t be much possibility of strengthening busy services.

 

[Hairy Bear]

I was thinking further ahead to when all local EMR are planned to be 170s. By then all the 153s will have gone and if most of the 170s are only 2 carriages there won’t be much possibility of strengthening busy services.

Well that depends on how many spare 2 car 170's there are at the time of strengthening.
Yes they will couple to a 158. There was an instruction that the 170 should not be sandwiched. Don't know if that still stands.
Ambergate has the smallest platform, making the most on the branch limited to a 4 car.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was thinking further ahead to when all local EMR are planned to be 170s. By then all the 153s will have gone and if most of the 170s are only 2 carriages there won’t be much possibility of strengthening busy services.

These are good points, you would think there was at the mo a bit of spare stock to strengthening eg sat trains due to the influx of Anglia 156s and the reduced timetable on Robin Hood line (see other thread) after all.

Matlock line is a classic for leisure travel after all so sats and suns would I suspect be busier times, hence my original post.

I can't recall what the 2 or 3 car portfolio was due to be for the 170s with EMR in the fullness of time - certainly the case that a fair number of 170 centre cars are to go to XC to lengthen their woeful capacity on Brum - Stansted / Nottm services.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think physically/electrically, 170s can be attached to 153s in service.

Wasn't there at least one daily booked 170 + 153 diagram on the Snow Hill lines in Birmingham until the 172s took over? Or am I going mad?

 

[Qwerty133]

It isn’t just capacity on the Matlock line. Most of EMR local services seem to be very busy on Saturday afternoons. Perhaps numbers going into Nottingham may reduce if the expected local lockdown throughout Nottinghamshire happens next week.

It may continue to be a problem in the future if most of the 170s are going to be 2 car and won’t be able to be strengthened by the addition of a 153 as is currently happening on some routes. I seem to remember that EMT lost the centre carriages from some 158s at the beginning if the last franchise causing overcrowding. Why does this keep happening to the East Midlands.

This is one of the major issues that was never considered in the split of Central Trains and that has been problematic for the past 13 years. While various TOCs have a handful of routes that are busier at weekends, the regional segment of EMR is the only group of services that are busier at weekends as a whole and are therefore not able to benefit from the use of stock used during the week on services that are quieter at weekends. Back in the CT days they would regularly use units used on West Midlands commuter services Monday-Friday to add capacity to various services in the East Midlands at weekends in a way that is no longer possible.

 

[STINT47]

Wasn't there at least one daily booked 170 + 153 diagram on the Snow Hill lines in Birmingham until the 172s took over? Or am I going mad?

Your not going mad. London Midland often ran a 153 with a 170. I used to travel to Walsall a lot and remember these formations as I used to dash down the platform to get on the 170.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Part of the issue with all these extra vehicles is the maintenance capacity. Some jobs for example cannot be carried out by a single person and during the tightest covid restrictions it wasn't possible to do some tasks, eg change out a 158 aircon module. Add to that if staff are shielding, self isolating, off sick, on leave, or you're unable to train replacements up in a time effective manner.

In short the fact many trains are continuing to run is a testament to those left in the depots, folk who are regularly forgotten and overlooked. Adding extra trains or vehicles into the equation isn't realistic.

 

[STINT47]

All two car trains today. Loading were busy with a few spare seats on most trains but no chance to maintain 2 meter or even 1 social distancing.

Trains were also externally dirty and could have all benefited from a trip through the carriage wash. A shame for a scenic branch line. Sadly EMR do not seem too care about the state of their trains

 

[LowLevel]

Well that depends on how many spare 2 car 170's there are at the time of strengthening.
Yes they will couple to a 158. There was an instruction that the 170 should not be sandwiched. Don't know if that still stands.
Ambergate has the smallest platform, making the most on the branch limited to a 4 car.

They will couple to a 158 but the 158 fleet has now been fitted with a non compatible TrainFX PIS system so can't run in passenger service.

All two car trains today. Loading were busy with a few spare seats on most trains but no chance to maintain 2 meter or even 1 social distancing.

Trains were also externally dirty and could have all benefited from a trip through the carriage wash. A shame for a scenic branch line. Sadly EMR do not seem too care about the state of their trains

This time of year most trains are filthy. The railhead treatment trains blast muck everywhere.

 

[WesternLancer]

several 3 car 170s seemed to be parked around Etches Park today, in EMR livery. I think I saw 3 units.

 

[Andy Pacer]

several 3 car 170s seemed to be parked around Etches Park today, in EMR livery. I think I saw 3 units.

Wonder how long until they are in revenue earning service

 

[tom1649]

Most I've had on the branch is 5 cars; 2x156 plus 1x153. I'm not sure how Whatstandwell was handled as I only travelled from Matlock Bath to Matlock. Maybe local door only?

 

[Ryry]

Class 222 inn the east Midlands trains days has historically ran down the branch line
I've been on a 4 car service and think it was all dependent where the driver stopped to see which dòors open. Normally it's the front 2 coaches

 

[Class 170101]

Class 222 inn the east Midlands trains days has historically ran down the branch line
I've been on a 4 car service and think it was all dependent where the driver stopped to see which dòors open. Normally it's the front 2 coaches

I didn't think 222s were permitted on this route - being too heavy for it because Matlock lost its London services when Class 170s stopped running to / from St Pancras.

 

[tom1649]

222s are allowed occasionally on an "as required" basis. This is usually during the Matlock Bath Illuminations although one also deputised for a 15X when the Queen last visited Matlock. She had a whole first class carriage to herself.