Massive mystery ROD saddletanks

[Tony Whittaker]

Hi

On Michael Portillo's current tv series on railways in World War 1, there was a still photo of several massive 2-6-2 saddletanks of American appearance, with ROD clearly showing on the sides. I had never heard of such a locomotive before, and can't find any reference to them online. It could of course be a case of an editor sourcing photos online, and assuming these were WW1 ROD locos. But very possibly, the 'ROD' did not apply to the British ROD, but had some other meaning. They certainly looked more like 1930s design than WW1.
Anyone know?

Best wishes and thanks

Tony

 

[pdeaves]

Anything like this?

I know nothing about these locos but maybe someone else can assist.

 

[dubscottie]

Was it like this?

 

[Cowley]

Interesting pictures. They’ve both got plenty of water carrying ability.
The loco in Dubscottie’s picture is an interesting mix of what looks like American running gear mated with UK style buffers, smokebox door and chimney.
Are they both Baldwin based locomotives? With the second one much altered by the UK army to suit UK crews?
They seem more like 1st World War photos than 2nd. Someone clever on here will know I’m sure.
- It’s interesting to note that the cylinders and first two sets of driving wheels are very similar on each locomotive.

 

[dubscottie]

The pic I posted is of a Baldwin loco that was in service with the Australian Army in Belgium during WW1.

ROD was only used during WW1. In WW2 the locos would have been branded WD.

Was the engine standard gauge? The ROD used vast numbers of Baldwin 2-6-2t narrow gauge locos during WW1 but these had side tanks rather than saddle tanks.

Being in Ireland, I can't access the iplayer to look at the pic in the programme.

 

[Tony Whittaker]

Thanks for all your comments. My impression on the very brief tv shot was of something very like your X-17 loco, PDEaves, but even more massive, and certaily standard gauge. The biggest saddletank I've seen, and looking quite like a large Baldwin. And having a similar ROD designation on the saddle as per your photo DubScottie, which indicates that the ROD WERE using US standard gauge locos too - something which does not seem to appear in the writeups about the ROD I have seen. And presumably 1917 on, after the US entry into the war.

 

[theageofthetra]

Baldwins made some huge saddle tanks- generally for the lumber trade. One of the biggest was a 2-6-6-2 articulated monster.

A Baldwin trademark is a long overhang from the smokebox to the front cowcatcher with a pair of bars bracing it.

 

[dubscottie]

I am thinking the pic that was on TV might have been taken in the Middle East. WW1 happened there also and it may explain the massive tanks (lack of water stops).

Plenty of US built engines were shipped there pre WW1 (the loco famine) and the ROD would have used what they could.

 

[Taunton]

The pic I posted is of a Baldwin loco that was in service with the Australian Army in Belgium during WW1.

It may have been Baldwin-built, but has so many UK features, eg the cab design, that I wonder if they worked to European drawings.

Baldwin had a huge steam loco manufacturing capability, like nothing in Britain, not even North British. They were however later hamstrung in building the largest locos for US railroads that their plant in Philadelphia was restricted by the lesser loading gauge of railways on the east coast. Sometimes they seemed able to churn out a class of 50 locos in a month. Completely lost the plot when diesels came along.

 

[Tony Whittaker]

I tracked down the brief shot to 23.37 in to episode 4 of Portillo's Railways of the Great War. And the photo is attached. These locos are massive. What on earth are they?
Any ideas?

 

[Cowley]

I tracked down the brief shot to 23.37 in to episode 4 of Portillo's Railways of the Great War. And the photo is attached. These locos are massive. What on earth are they?
Any ideas?



View attachment 42984

They certainly are quite impressive.
Going on the cylinders and motion they look to me like another variation of the Baldwin tanks mentioned upthread.
They obviously have a large water carrying capacity, possibly for work in desert terrain, but also quite possibly for work behind the lines in Europe where the water replenishing infrastructure might not have been easily available either.
I’d guess the latter but it’s only a guess.
Theageofthetra may know a bit more on this kind of thing...

 

[dubscottie]

Found a pic of what looks like the same locos here

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug...OCOMOTIVES/DEPARTMENT-LOCOMOTIVES/i-6znVtFz/A

I would think that they were built for use in Persia. If they were in use in Europe, you would expect there to be lots more pictures of them.

 

[Cowley]

Found a pic of what looks like the same locos here

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug...OCOMOTIVES/DEPARTMENT-LOCOMOTIVES/i-6znVtFz/A

I would think that they were built for use in Persia. If they were in use in Europe, you would expect there to be lots more pictures of them.

Great photo Dubscottie. Quite a beast of locomotive really.

 

[theageofthetra]

Great photo Dubscottie. Quite a beast of locomotive really.

Definitely looks Baldwin. It's certainly huge and looks to big for UK loading gauge- could it be in Egypt/Jordan somewhere?

This book on EBAY may have more information.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RoD-Baldw...-one-railway-operating-division-/272171751023

 

[Tony Whittaker]

Thanks folks. I had not realised that the ROD also operated in the Middle East or used US locomotives. Have found an online photo of a US-built ROD tender loco in Palestine, as attached. So your suggestion of Middle East certainly makes sense.

 

[Werewolf458]

Hi everybody... I can give you one information I discovered 2 years ago... 2 of these steam locomotives were still active in 1945...after the first world War the French coal mines companies of the nord pas de calais coalfield bought some of these engines... The mining company of Drocourt had 2 baldwin 262 ... Check on internet rouvroy fosse 2....there s à picture of one baldwin hauling one train of coal... She was used on the branch railway .. Fosse 4 et 5 sud de mericourt and drocourt washing and coking complex.... I don't know when they were scrapped... But beetween 1959 and 1963 the houilleres of the nord pas de calais start to replace steam locomotive .. And they bought 040 de brissonneau et Lotz.... Renault and Fauvet girel diesel Shunters

 

[etr221]

History of the Baldwin and other locos of the ROD is covered in 'The Railway Operating Division on the Western Front' by William Aves.
From it: Baldwin supplied, all to British orders/specification, 70 0-4-0ST (in two batches from mid 1916); 75 2-6-2ST in 1917 (63 went to Belgium post war, SNCB class 57); 150 2-8-0 from late 1917 (post war 32 to Belgium, thence Romania, and 113 to France (CF du Nord, later SNCF 2-140.B); 50 0-6-0PT in 1917-18 (post war 38 to Belgium, SNCB class 58, and at least 5 to England, Shoeburyness and elsewhere); and 120 4-6-0s - 70 to the Western Front in early 1918 (post war to Belgium, SNCB class 40), and 50 later to Palestine - where they formed the mainstay of the Palestine (later Israel) Railways fleet.

It is worth remembering that - at its peak - the ROD was one of the largest 'British' operators of locomotives (pre grouping), with over 1350 locos at the time of the armistice.

 

[Werewolf458]

One 262 operating .. Fosse 2 des mines de Drocourt Rouvroy France... Picture taken maybe in 1934 35...

 

[Werewolf458]

Some informations about the 2 baldwin of Drocourt... Built in 1917 and 1918...2 cylinders... Weight empty 52 tons... Full 60,5 tons

 

[Werewolf458]

The pit 2.... The headgear.. With mining buildings... The baldwin is on the right of the picture ... It's not a fives lille or something else...

 

[Werewolf458]