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I'm on a railtour with a couple of Class 50s on Saturday so, having not worn a mask since July, I'm now faced with the prospect of wearing one on Saturday for 8 hours (4 hours each way). I will wear it but I won't savour the experience. The problem I used to have with them is that I had to change the way I breathe when wearing one. I generally breathe through my mouth, have done all my life, and wearing a facemask I really struggled to draw breath in the early days. After I while I found if I switched to breathing through my nose instead it was much easier, but making that transition back and forth when taking the mask on/off was a pain.
True (I thought FFP3 was a lot higher than 14%). The context here is relatively cheap basic surgical masks, the usually blue ones. That is where there is an absence of concensus.
The British Independent Retailers Association (Bira) said it supports people wearing face coverings in shops in England: "We are pleased that a decision has been made to keep everyone safe and stop the spread of this new variant."
The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...
The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?
The first article refers to face masks, not face coverings.
The second article is so full of assumptions and un-cited statements it would be laughed out of a peer reviewed journal. It even admits that the results assume everyone is wearing and handling them correctly.
The third one is based on results in laboratory conditions. I'm afraid Lidl is far from being a laboratory environment.
I'm on a railtour with a couple of Class 50s on Saturday so, having not worn a mask since July, I'm now faced with the prospect of wearing one on Saturday for 8 hours (4 hours each way). I will wear it but I won't savour the experience. The problem I used to have with them is that I had to change the way I breathe when wearing one. I generally breathe through my mouth, have done all my life, and wearing a facemask I really struggled to draw breath in the early days. After I while I found if I switched to breathing through my nose instead it was much easier, but making that transition back and forth when taking the mask on/off was a pain.
I also have had a history of difficulty breathing thru the nose (it is apparently becoming endemic as modern humans evolve different shaped skulls). Breathing via the nose is argued by many to be better, and if the mask for whatever reason is causing this, might be providing benefits over the course of the rail tour. Maybe you are less likely to inhale / expel any virus with it on as you are using the purpose-made air passages in your head in which case the mask is a win regardless of its own eficacy?
So rather than transitioning between two types of breathing, I would suggest persevering if possible with the "masked" style even when unmasked.
That's an interesting point. Are railtours included in this ? I'm booked on one in January.
On the wider point, it's not really surprising that those who are likely to spend a longer time in settings where face-coverings are required, are likely to be less enthusiastic about being forced to wear them. As "train people" we can be expected to spend a long time on trains, so its not surprising we're more anti.
Wife just had a message telling her that the booster jab is now available for her to have. She asked me, given last night's first of no doubt many tightening of restrictions again, "what's the point"? She has had Covid already, a few months back, too.
Tough to give her a really convincing reason to go and get jabbed, if I'm honest.
The messaging is all wrong. If she had a lengthy gap between doses (say 11-12 weeks) and a natural infection then you are right there is probably not much point. That said, I'd still take it, especially as international travel may require it.
I have sparred with the OP @yorkie before and reckon he needs to decide whether being an agitator is compatible with his duties of moderator (the two words mean diametrically opposite things). My concern is that lot of us suffer with autism and other conditions that make us perhaps more suggestible to conspiracy theorising and in my opinion it is not a good look for a supposed moderator to be championing such drivel. Whilst I have a little life experience to avoid getting caught up in such forum groupthink, there are perhaps those younger or with less savvy who might think that what they read here represents some sort of industry view that tacitly endorses breaking to law, with severe consequences out in the real world.
Boom! If I wanted to socialise in a hotbed of conspiracy theories and trolling, I could have stayed on facebook where at least I could post stuff to people I know from real life. I am also starting to question the point of this forum and suspect it is now set on the path to self destruction.
As for willingness to stand up for principles, on this forum it seems to be the likes of @Bayum, @Berliner and @alex397 who are the ones willing to push back against the prevailing groupthink and risk rail forum martyrdom for their view of the situation.
How much easier it is to parrot the conspiracy-theory-de-jour on these forums than to defend the government policy which has actually been very conservative relative to near EU countries
As you once said yourself "Government policy statements have been full of guff", but of course you will criticise Government policy when it suits and you will criticise those who criticise Government policy when that suits
I'm on a railtour with a couple of Class 50s on Saturday so, having not worn a mask since July, I'm now faced with the prospect of wearing one on Saturday for 8 hours (4 hours each way).
I will wear it but I won't savour the experience. The problem I used to have with them is that I had to change the way I breathe when wearing one. I generally breathe through my mouth, have done all my life, and wearing a facemask I really struggled to draw breath in the early days. After I while I found if I switched to breathing through my nose instead it was much easier, but making that transition back and forth when taking the mask on/off was a pain.
It's unclear; I recall originally they were not as it was just public transport. But then museums and entertainment, hospitality etc required coverings and railtours and preserved railways got lumped in with that.
I personally think no, based on what has been said so far, as being on a railtour is more akin to being at a pub that happens to be moving.
On the wider point, it's not really surprising that those who are likely to spend a longer time in settings where face-coverings are required, are likely to be less enthusiastic about being forced to wear them. As "train people" we can be expected to spend a long time on trains, so its not surprising we're more anti.
Some of the pro-maskers argue that it is "no big deal to wear one for a few minutes''; a key part of their argument being that they are only required to be worn for a short period of time. Of course these people are car drivers (who go round polluting the air for the rest of us but of course that is deemed to be okay but that's another story!)
I'm on a railtour with a couple of Class 50s on Saturday so, having not worn a mask since July, I'm now faced with the prospect of wearing one on Saturday for 8 hours (4 hours each way). I will wear it but I won't savour the experience. The problem I used to have with them is that I had to change the way I breathe when wearing one. I generally breathe through my mouth, have done all my life, and wearing a facemask I really struggled to draw breath in the early days. After I while I found if I switched to breathing through my nose instead it was much easier, but making that transition back and forth when taking the mask on/off was a pain.
This autumn I did a railtour - about one third in Wales and also a visit to preserved railway in Wales. All the usual C19 rules emailed.
Compliance less than 30% I would say despite facemasks being mandatory.
Also went on a bus in Wales on Thursday driver said nothing to me for not wearing a mask and neither did the supervisor who was riding on the platform with him and appeared to be showing him the ropes as he didn't seem to know the fare stages.
That's an interesting point. Are railtours included in this ? I'm booked on one in January.
On the wider point, it's not really surprising that those who are likely to spend a longer time in settings where face-coverings are required, are likely to be less enthusiastic about being forced to wear them. As "train people" we can be expected to spend a long time on trains, so its not surprising we're more anti.
Likewise people that work in shops. There was little appetite for them in my local supermarket before they became mandatory. Even though they are still required here, plenty of staff wear them on their chin. Presumably they go back on if a manager appears.
This autumn I did a railtour - about one third in Wales and also a visit to preserved railway in Wales. All the usual C19 rules emailed.
Compliance less than 30% I would say despite facemasks being mandatory.
Also went on a bus in Wales on Thursday driver said nothing to me for not wearing a mask and neither did the supervisor who was riding on the platform with him and appeared to be showing him the ropes as he didn't seem to know the fare stages.
What are the rules on exemptions? I'm coming across next weekend and have a 3.5hr journey from Manchester to Newcastle. I can't easily avoid the science-free face masks on the plane, though it's only half an hour so meh, it's not worth the argument. But I'll be buggered I'm going to sit in one for three and a half hours.
Hopefully the self-certification still stands? They're just so claustrophobic.
If there was the tiniest shred of evidence they worked (proper evidence, not "meta-analysis" or literature reviews) then my opinion would be different, but there isn't.
Before anyone says, I've had all three jabs (and the flu jab!), and had the lurgy in August. So the chances of me having the lurgy again are basically nil.
What are the rules on exemptions? I'm coming across next weekend and have a 3.5hr journey from Manchester to Newcastle. I can't easily avoid the science-free face masks on the plane, though it's only half an hour so meh, it's not worth the argument. But I'll be buggered I'm going to sit in one for three and a half hours.
Hopefully the self-certification still stands? They're just so claustrophobic.
There is no requirement for face coverings to be of any minimum quality or standard; flimsy ineffective face coverings that are not designed to filter aerosol particles are absolutely fine, making the whole exercise pointless.
I have sparred with the OP @yorkie before and reckon he needs to decide whether being an agitator is compatible with his duties of moderator (the two words mean diametrically opposite things).
So you're saying that Yorkie can't have controversial opinions because he's a moderator? Such attitudes are discriminatory and would leave this forum without any staff if you had your way.
So you're saying that Yorkie can't have controversial opinions because he's a moderator? Such attitudes are discriminatory and would leave this forum without any staff if you had your way.
It is unusual for moderators to have strong opinions on fora to be honest. Though if it was my forum i'd have an official account for moderating and another one for putting the boot in.
I am very sad to read a lot of the comments on here.
Unfortunately my wife is on immunosuppressant drugs; this is probably the worst time in history to be on them.
She had to have 3 vaccinations even before she had her booster.
It is sad that we live in a society where so many people do not care if she and others like her may die as a result of small inconveniences like putting a mask on.
Whilst I sympathise with your wife’s position, if she is immunocompromised then she cannot risk mixing with others regardless of whether they are wearing masks, surely?
Whilst I sympathise with your wife’s position, if she is immunocompromised then she cannot risk mixing with others regardless of whether they are wearing masks, surely?
It could be argued that the masks lure into a false sense of security, putting her at more risk.
(in the same way that cyclists wearing helmets have more accidents because they feel safer, the difference being that helmets are extremely effective so for every overconfident helmet wearing cyclist killing himself, ten who would have crashed anyway are saved by the helmet).
This mask law is the equivalent of motorcycle helmets made of papier mache satisfying the laws requirements for wearing one when on a motorcycle.
It is unusual but I don't see why it should be an issue. This isn't a company where he must toe the corporate line and I don't see why he must remain impartial on issues not pertaining to his role as a staff member. In my opinion, Yorkie is a moderate libertarian and I was quite taken aback by his critique of the BBC by calling them far left. So I view his views as representative of the general population, albeit more likely to speak his mind than most.
There is no requirement for face coverings to be of any minimum quality or standard; flimsy ineffective face coverings that are not designed to filter aerosol particles are absolutely fine, making the whole exercise pointless.
Indeed, first time round I invested in a few very thin single layer cotton masks from Etsy. If you hold them up to the light they are virtually see through, although they look legit when wearing them. Breathing feels almost normal through them. Utterly useless against Covid, like all other masks, but I’d recommend for anyone begrudgingly wearing one to avoid hassle etc.
Some of the pro-maskers argue that it is "no big deal to wear one for a few minutes''; a key part of their argument being that they are only required to be worn for a short period of time. Of course these people are car drivers (who go round polluting the air for the rest of us but of course that is deemed to be okay but that's another story!)
It's fair to say that most people I know who are very pro-mask don't use public transport a lot. They're less likely to now as they see trains as germ factories.
So you're saying that Yorkie can't have controversial opinions because he's a moderator? Such attitudes are discriminatory and would leave this forum without any staff if you had your way.
That’s not exactly what @squizzler is saying.
It’s certainly fine for a moderator to share their opinion, disagree with people and have a debate about it.
But there’s a difference between that and being an agitator. Telling others that their opinion is incorrect. Not just disagreeing with others but piling on to them and encouraging others to do the same. Brushing people off as ‘virtue signallers’ and so on.
I’m sure someone will say I’m only annoyed at this because I didn’t like someone disagreeing with me. Not at all - like I said above there’s a difference, especially from a moderator.
In general, I mod along the guidelines set by the owner (whoever that may be) and those are quite different between the forums. Mods answer to the owner
Having said that I believe there is a difference between having a strong opinion on a subject and getting into a spat with another member. If we think we are going to get into the latter situation we ask a fellow mod to watch the thread - take our mods hat off and say that - and get stuck in. That way there can be no suggestion of force. One forum I post on had a mod who started deleting posts by those who disagreed with him
Personally, I think one or two of the comments here were OTT. They'd, certainly, make me think twice about engaging in a conversation. But that's my take - as I say a mods responsibility is to the owner.
You also have a right to tell Yorkie that his opinion is wrong and encourage others to do so. However, I haven't seen him encourage anyone to pile on others.
"I am exempt" is enough. No one has the right to ask anymore. Your medical status is confidential between you and your GP.
This is from the Government web site:
where the putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause severe distress
There is the legal excuse for anyone who does not wish to comply.
If not threaten them with disability discrimination and tell them you will see them in court.
Enough to make the boldest back off as I understand the fine for that is around £7k and it would be a very keen pro mask wearer to risk that amount of money.
Is that down to poor vaccination rates, as for scarves etc, I think it has been known for sometime that they are not that good, maybe a good idea at the very start...have to be seen to be doing something quickly, but now 2 years on ...
"I am exempt" is enough. No one has the right to ask anymore. Your medical status is confidential between you and your GP.
If not threaten them with disability discrimination and tell them you will see them in court.
Enough to make the boldest back off as I understand the fine for that is around £7k and it would be a very keen pro mask wearer to risk that amount of money.
I recall isolated incidents of people being dragged off trains/out of shops by police for not wearing the things. Yes you might eventually win the case but only after a lot of unpleasantness and hassle, which can be avoided if you keep one of the things in your back pocket.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
www.pnas.org
www.nature.com
news.sky.com
