Marylebone advice

[willd120]

I got my details taken at the station due to showing a previous expired open return ticket with a different railcard. At the station i left from (had barriers) I made sure to show the officer the ticket as it did not let me go through and he allowed me through (problems with E-tickets is not new, so I thought nothing of it). At the station I was stopped at the barrier trying to go and told to speak to someone where he said that the ticket was invalid and immediately intimidated me into giving details and saying he believes "I've done this before". I have a normal 16-25 savers railway and must have accidentally clicked the wrong rail card for the ticket and chose the 16 railway card and did not know of "the big difference" (his words) . They said a letter will be sent where I tell my story or something, I was visibly distressed and asked for more info, his email but he was quite dismissive and said to leave the station. The problem though is that I am leaving the country for a year in a month or so and a bit scared of any ramifications. I've read a lot about out of court settlements (hopefully nothing comes of this IJN!) so im just trying to rationalise possible consequences and possible solutions (and how to go about it if im in another country). Any help will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Adam Williams]

Are you saying you bought/used a ticket with the 16-17 saver railcard discount applied instead of the 16-25 railcard?

 

[willd120]

Yea accidentally

 

[Wethebest838]

It might not seem like a problem but 16-17 saver gives you a bigger discount than 16-25 railcard.

50% off 16-17 saver and a 1/3 off 16-25 railcard.

All you need to do is wait for the letter which can can take up to 6 months. A letter will come from either a company called TIL (transport investigation limited) or Chiltern but it seems like TIL deal with low level evasions unless you’ve done this 1049474 times.

Once the letter comes, post it here without the personal details and everyone can assist you writing a draft. The letter you compose back needs to be apologetic, understanding your mistake and be willing to pay what needs to be paid back.

 

[WesternLancer]

It might not seem like a problem but 16-17 saver gives you a bigger discount than 16-25 railcard.

50% off 16-17 saver and a 1/3 off 16-25 railcard.

All you need to do is wait for the letter which can can take up to 6 months. A letter will come from either a company called TIL (transport investigation limited) or Chiltern but it seems like TIL deal with low level evasions unless you’ve done this 1049474 times.

Once the letter comes, post it here without the personal details and everyone can assist you writing a draft. The letter you compose back needs to be apologetic, understanding your mistake and be willing to pay what needs to be paid back.

Is the issue for the OP that if it comes by post (not e-mail) - they will be out of the country for 12 months leaving in one months time -

@willd120 - when you go away will there be someone you trust who can monitor your physical post at the address you gave them, open it and scan or photo any letters and send them to you by e-mail so you can pick them up overseas?.

It will be really important to respond to them however they try and contact you - advice here on what to say when you hear from them.

Because of the differential discount there is a big chance they will want money off you and they will threaten court action in their standard letter to you.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are you saying you bought/used a ticket with the 16-17 saver railcard discount applied instead of the 16-25 railcard?

He also says in the first post the open ticket had “previously expired”. The fact the railcard eligibility was wrong seems to be a bit of a side issue…

 

[Gloster]

Experience from the past is that it is possible to arrange for the redirection of post to addresses abroad, but it is not always as reliable as one would wish. If you know someone trustworthy and reliable at a different address to the one you gave, but in this country, ask them if they will monitor your post. If they agree, you should be able to arrange to have your post redirected from your current address to ‘your name’ at their address.

 

[30907]

He also says in the first post the open ticket had “previously expired”. The fact the railcard eligibility was wrong seems to be a bit of a side issue…

I agree - I would have thought that on most apps an expired/used ticket would be archived not immediately available - certainly is the case on the app I use (Northern) - so would have to be a deliberate choice.

Choosing the wrong railcard discount is an understandable accident.

Such a shame that the OP didn't check the ticket once it had been rejected.

 

[swt_passenger]

I agree - I would have thought that on most apps an expired/used ticket would be archived not immediately available - certainly is the case on the app I use (Northern) - so would have to be a deliberate choice.

Choosing the wrong railcard discount is an understandable accident.

Such a shame that the OP didn't check the ticket once it had been rejected.

I think he wasn’t necessarily using an App, but an E-ticket. Could have been printed, as far as I’ve gleaned from discussions here.

 

[30907]

I think he wasn’t necessarily using an App, but an E-ticket. Could have been printed, as far as I’ve gleaned from discussions here.

Fair point. Presumably with dates on it.

 

[willd120]

Long story short I had my details taken down at Marylebone station due to using the wrong railcard. The officer explained I’ll get some sort of letter detailing the situation.

Shortly after, I went on a trip for quite sometime and consistently asked my family whether I had any new letters for me as I was out of the country. I assumed if matters were serious I’d get an email too. The answer was no, it’s not only till I came back that someone said they did see a letter from “a travel/railway company” a while back but the letter seems to be lost. It’s coming up to the 6 month mark and I’ve not heard any news or follow up from then (assuming it’s TIL or anything ).

I know it’s hard to give any advice based on the fact that the content of the letter is up in the air but Is there any advice/defences I could use in case it’s the worst case scenario as it is quite stressful and I don’t want to be smacked with a punitive document completely out of the blue after.

 

[RPI]

Long story short I had my details taken down at Marylebone station due to using the wrong railcard. The officer explained I’ll get some sort of letter detailing the situation.

Shortly after, I went on a trip for quite sometime and consistently asked my family whether I had any new letters for me as I was out of the country. I assumed if matters were serious I’d get an email too. The answer was no, it’s not only till I came back that someone said they did see a letter from “a travel/railway company” a while back but the letter seems to be lost. It’s coming up to the 6 month mark and I’ve not heard any news or follow up from then (assuming it’s TIL or anything ).

I know it’s hard to give any advice based on the fact that the content of the letter is up in the air but Is there any advice/defences I could use in case it’s the worst case scenario as it is quite stressful and I don’t want to be smacked with a punitive document completely out of the blue after.

When you say wrong railcard, what do you mean? I'm going to make a wild guess here that you had a 16-17 Saver discount but you actually hold a 16-25 railcard?

The Royal Mail strikes may be affecting the delivery but they usually are quicker than that!

 

[AlterEgo]

When you say wrong railcard, what do you mean? I'm going to make a wild guess here that you had a 16-17 Saver discount but you actually hold a 16-25 railcard?

The Royal Mail strikes may be affecting the delivery but they usually are quicker than that!

If you look at his posting history he says the ticket was "previously expired" which is a hell of a lot worse than just the "wrong railcard".

The OP might be best advised to ask if any other mail came for him, especially one from the court, as Chiltern are prone to prosecuting for matters like this.

 

[some bloke]

I don’t want to be smacked with a punitive document completely out of the blue

If you are convicted by a court without knowledge of the proceedings, and you submit a statutory declaration properly and in time, magistrates are obliged to void the conviction.

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

And then you could try to persuade the company to settle.

 

[30907]

If the usual letter asking for your explanation has been mislaid, the second letter will inform you of court proceedings, at which you should contact the company.
The statutory declaration route just mentioned only applies if you are taken to court without your knowledge.
Either way, an administrative settlement may still be possible but is not guaranteed, given that you used a ticket both incorrect and out of date.

 

[Gloster]

Can you get the ‘clock put back’ if the letter has arrived at the correct address, but then been lost, as seems to be the case here? Although how the railway would prove that, I know not? (For the railway the problem could be that this would be a useful delaying tactic by someone of nefarious intention.)

 

[skyhigh]

If you look at his posting history he says the ticket was "previously expired" which is a hell of a lot worse than just the "wrong railcard".

From the previous thread:

I got my details taken at the station due to showing a previous expired open return ticket with a different railcard. At the station i left from (had barriers) I made sure to show the officer the ticket as it did not let me go through and he allowed me through (problems with E-tickets is not new, so I thought nothing of it). At the station I was stopped at the barrier trying to go and told to speak to someone where he said that the ticket was invalid and immediately intimidated me into giving details and saying he believes "I've done this before". I have a normal 16-25 savers railway and must have accidentally clicked the wrong rail card for the ticket and chose the 16 railway card and did not know of "the big difference" (his words) .

So trying to use an expired (already used?) ticket with a 16-17 Saver discount when a different railcard was held.

 

[Snow1964]

Can you get the ‘clock put back’ if the letter has arrived at the correct address, but then been lost, as seems to be the case here? Although how the railway would prove that, I know not? (For the railway the problem could be that this would be a useful delaying tactic by someone of nefarious intention.)

This is one of those that really seems to depend on who is dealing with it. Similarly if you have proof of posting of replying, but rail Co doesn’t receive, in same boat.

If you then phoned and queried, some would send or email a duplicate, others carry on blindly.

But if they did email over a duplicate to get it resolved, would probably expect a reply within 24 hours, not the whole period of original (lost) letter.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As the station was Marylebone, the railway company is Chiltern who normally (but not invariably) use Transport Investigations Ltd (TIL) for this sort of thing. TIL have a contact page on their website at https://transportinvestigations.co.uk/contact/.

 

[willd120]

If you look at his posting history he says the ticket was "previously expired" which is a hell of a lot worse than just the "wrong railcard".

The OP might be best advised to ask if any other mail came for him, especially one from the court, as Chiltern are prone to prosecuting for matters like this.

Essentially I did have a ticket, I accidentally just used the wrong railcard was the main issue.

And not to my knowledge, I have not received any indication of court proceedings, I’m essentially pretty much in the blind here. Because I am leaving for yet another long trip in 2 months, I do not want to get a punitive letter as I’m not able to fully deal with the situation as I’d be abroad

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2022 ==

If you look at his posting history he says the ticket was "previously expired" which is a hell of a lot worse than just the "wrong railcard".

The OP might be best advised to ask if any other mail came for him, especially one from the court, as Chiltern are prone to prosecuting for matters like this

If the usual letter asking for your explanation has been mislaid, the second letter will inform you of court proceedings, at which you should contact the company.
The statutory declaration route just mentioned only applies if you are taken to court without your knowledge.
Either way, an administrative settlement may still be possible but is not guaranteed, given that you used a ticket both incorrect and out of date.

If this happened, do you think it would be worth explaining that I had not received the first letter in order to go back to the first stage. Especially if I have proof that I did not live at that address for an extended period of time.

 

[WesternLancer]

Long story short I had my details taken down at Marylebone station due to using the wrong railcard. The officer explained I’ll get some sort of letter detailing the situation.

Shortly after, I went on a trip for quite sometime and consistently asked my family whether I had any new letters for me as I was out of the country. I assumed if matters were serious I’d get an email too. The answer was no, it’s not only till I came back that someone said they did see a letter from “a travel/railway company” a while back but the letter seems to be lost. It’s coming up to the 6 month mark and I’ve not heard any news or follow up from then (assuming it’s TIL or anything ).

I know it’s hard to give any advice based on the fact that the content of the letter is up in the air but Is there any advice/defences I could use in case it’s the worst case scenario as it is quite stressful and I don’t want to be smacked with a punitive document completely out of the blue after.

This is all really unfortunate as you are dealing with Chiltern / TIL who usually play hardball. I think to avoid it getting worse (even going down the Stat Declaration route may potentially need to involve a solicitor albeit in a limited way for someone unfamiliar with the process) I'm tempted to think the best advice would be to contact TIL or Chiltern to explain about lost post while you were away recently and ask "if outstanding matters they are expecting to hear from you about as you are anxious to co-operate with them" and then take it from there (head back to the forum for advice on what you need to do depending on what the situation is when you find out).

As the other option is to hope they have forgotten about you - but I suspect that is very unlikely really.
or
Wait until wherever they have got to plays out (ie you are summonsed to court, or find it has already gone to court) and then deal with it from that point on - which would be either: seek to persuade them to settle before the court hearing, or re-set the clock using the Statutory Declaration on the basis that you never knew it had gone to court.

ALSO - you need to put in place action ref letters esp if you are going away again - a reliable person who will open them, scan them or photo them, and send them to you so you can respond.

Whoever this is needs to understand that post (in respect of things like this) is vital to attend to promptly and seriously.

 

[skyhigh]

Essentially I did have a ticket, I accidentally just used the wrong railcard was the main issue.

You essentially need to look at this from the train operator's perspective too - a common fare evasion tactic is to apply a 16-17 Saver discount vs 16-25 as it gives a greater discount. Coming across you, it looks very much like you might have been deliberately fare evading (and they see this a lot). They may also have looked at your purchase history to see if you've done this before. Couple that in with an expired ticket as you mentioned in a previous thread, even if you've simply made a series of mistakes it doesn't look good.

With that in mind, it isn't impossible that this first letter contained a court summons, and the matter has already gone to court. As you're coming up to the 6 month mark and are going out of the country, I would strongly advise that you contact both Chiltern and TIL and ask if they are aware of anything under your name. If you go away for a long trip and can't reliably get post things can get very complicated if you miss a court summons/demand for payment of a court fine and aren't in the country.

 

[AlterEgo]

Essentially I did have a ticket, I accidentally just used the wrong railcard was the main issue.

So the bit in your previous post about the ticket being expired wasn’t true then?

It’s really important you get on top of this, Chiltern do not mess about.

 

[island]

You really do need to get your story straight And start taking responsibility. Your two threads [edit: which have since been merged by a moderator] are dripping with evasiveness and references to "accidents". It is very difficult to "accidentally" select a Railcard that you do not have.

Chiltern will look to recover fares avoided and if you have a history of online purchases of discounted tickets they will assume all of them were illegitimate and add them to the claim.

 

[ice_cube]

I got my details taken at the station due to showing a previous expired open return ticket with a different railcard. At the station i left from (had barriers) I made sure to show the officer the ticket as it did not let me go through and he allowed me through (problems with E-tickets is not new, so I thought nothing of it). At the station I was stopped at the barrier trying to go and told to speak to someone where he said that the ticket was invalid and immediately intimidated me into giving details and saying he believes "I've done this before". I have a normal 16-25 savers railway and must have accidentally clicked the wrong rail card for the ticket and chose the 16 railway card and did not know of "the big difference" (his words) . They said a letter will be sent where I tell my story or something, I was visibly distressed and asked for more info, his email but he was quite dismissive and said to leave the station. The problem though is that I am leaving the country for a year in a month or so and a bit scared of any ramifications. I've read a lot about out of court settlements (hopefully nothing comes of this IJN!) so im just trying to rationalise possible consequences and possible solutions (and how to go about it if im in another country). Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Hey. I had the same issue a while ago. If he gave you an email at the station, you should email them straight away and explain your situation and ask for any information to be sent to you through email - they should be willing to do that.