Marston Vale 150s condition

[Ribbleman]

From my trip on Monday - seats are kinda dirty but not the worst. Floor wasn't very clean and window was filthy. Could barely see out of it.

The brown, greasy marks at the top of the seats in the photo are typical of many Northern units too. I wonder if using hand held steam cleaners would improve matters.

 

[danielnez1]

I wouldn't be surpassed if Northern sent over their grubbiest 150 units in the first place. That seemed to happen during the Secro/Abellio days when some Northern Class 156s were transferred to EMT.

 

[Towers]

The brown, greasy marks at the top of the seats in the photo are typical of many Northern units too. I wonder if using hand held steam cleaners would improve matters.

It’s immediately apparent that those who designed and sanctioned the seat moquette on Northern’s trains were lacking in practical experience or common sense; having the pattern turn to a lighter shade just where passengers’ heads will be is only ever going to result in filthy brown stains! I suspect the majority of seat coverings are similarly grubby across the rail network, they just mostly manage to hide it better!

 

[D365]

So if the line is not being upgraded till a target of 2030 according to

https://eastwestrail.co.uk/news/latest-stories/oxford-to-bedford-services-accelerated-as-part-of-spring-budget-investment

Time to buy new trains, presumably more 196s for though working, so the 150s will have to last another 5 years?

As discussed recently on one or more of the relevant EWR ”latest news” threads, it won’t be additional 196s for EWR. The 6 two car units are an interim measure as a result of the decision to not electrify Oxford to Bletchley. The 196/0s just happened to be ’tacked on’ as the WMT order was the most appropriate, and will most likely go back to them for service expansion in the West Midlands region.

The intention for EWR to Bedford [and onwards to Cambridge] is to procure battery-electric multiple units in conjunction with discontinuous electrification. What will replace the 150s is not currently known, however, as this depends on exactly how many of the current Marston Vale stations are consolidated.

 

[fgwrich]

It’s immediately apparent that those who designed and sanctioned the seat moquette on Northern’s trains were lacking in practical experience or common sense; having the pattern turn to a lighter shade just where passengers’ heads will be is only ever going to result in filthy brown stains! I suspect the majority of seat coverings are similarly grubby across the rail network, they just mostly manage to hide it better!

This is why Moquette design and practicality is important, as several operators who switched over to Flat Cloth has somewhat found to their cost over the years. And I still despise the current trend of having leather headrests as the ones on SWR (and the former GWR HSTs) often are filthy and noticeable about some of the previous users hygiene levels.

On a side note, I’ve had 150232 for the last few days, and despite looking a little faded, the FGW Moquette is still holding up well in that. So it really shows how a similar class can just as heavily be used but still kept reasonably well - and that Moquette is older than the Northern one used in the 150s discussed here!

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is why Moquette design and practicality is important, as several operators who switched over to Flat Cloth has somewhat found to their cost over the years. And I still despise the current trend of having leather headrests as the ones on SWR (and the former GWR HSTs) often are filthy and noticeable about some of the previous users hygiene levels.

Reply here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/should-trains-have-full-partial-leather-seats.285177/

 

[47434]

Recently ish. As Northern's cleaning standards are rather lacking they have got very grubby.

The last few Northern units I have been on have been spotless. It doesn't take long for trains to look grim and the white floors really don't help.

 

[Russel]

The last few Northern units I have been on have been spotless. It doesn't take long for trains to look grim and the white floors really don't help.

A wood effect vinyl floor would have looked nicer and hid the dirt better.

 

[Spartacus]

The toilets seem to be quite dodgy on at least one of the units. On a recent trip, the toilet door lock opened the door when attempting to lock it which was rather counter intuitive. 150137 was the offending unit I believe.

I thought that was more or less a standard feature on original toilets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Elsewhere I've found the reason why 23/24m stock can't replace the (clearly knackered, all 3 are now broken) 150s - it isn't platform lengths, it's that a 2x24m train's rear bogie sits over the release treadle on a couple of the level crossings. I'm not sure if that would mean the crossing would wrongly open while still obstructed or if blocking the road is the issue, but that is supposedly why.

Supposedly this was tested with a pair of 153s a while back.

Edit: if the person who I got that info from posts here, thanks again

 

[Pete_uk]

I'm sure they are easy to move

 

[DarloRich]

Street word ( local rumours)

2x MV 150 at tysley: One with bad flats and one needing a new wheel set.

No idea what is up with the third.

SO annoying as the service falls apart yet again

 

[james_the_xv]

Elsewhere I've found the reason why 23/24m stock can't replace the (clearly knackered, all 3 are now broken) 150s - it isn't platform lengths, it's that a 2x24m train's rear bogie sits over the release treadle on a couple of the level crossings. I'm not sure if that would mean the crossing would wrongly open while still obstructed or if blocking the road is the issue, but that is supposedly why.

Wonder if CAF can do a railcar variant of the 196/7?

(It'll be delivered late, and have a host of issues but that's not exactly a downgrade at the moment!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wonder if CAF can do a railcar variant of the 196/7?

(It'll be delivered late, and have a host of issues but that's not exactly a downgrade at the moment!)

I sometimes wonder if it's worth just making a decision on what EWR are going to do with it (e.g. 5 stations vs. local stations) and then get on with sorting that with it bustituted in the meantime. The 150s are clearly knackered. Probably better than building a microfleet.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Wonder if CAF can do a railcar variant of the 196/7?

(It'll be delivered late, and have a host of issues but that's not exactly a downgrade at the moment!)

Aren't there two problems with that
1. Fitting all the stuff underneath a 2x20m unit (toilets, engines meeting emissions requirements).
2. ROSCOs not being a fan of diesel units due to potential for shorter lives.
Maybe one for fast charge battery units? They seem to have over 10 minutes at Bedford and much more (~30m) at Bletchley.

 

[Starmill]

At least it's the authentic Northern experience. All of the units are like that inside, and given the number of units Northern can turn out for service daily it's not particularly surprising that three all develop faults at the same time. These are actually chosen from the better ones anyway, because they're not in urgent need of corrosion repair works, which an enormous number of them are.

At the end of the day the problem isn't Northern or LNR or whichever depot would be unlucky enough to have to attempt to keep them going. The problem is that some members of the class have been carrying passengers for over 40 years now and they're life expired.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least it's the authentic Northern experience.

Probably a bit better than the Northern experience. It seems they have an agreement with a bus/coach company to have buses and drivers on standby so they can get a replacement in very quickly, usually there's only one round trip cancellation that isn't covered (though irritatingly they rarely put the buses in the planners, nor do they bother putting a note against the cancellation in Darwin that it is covered, so you have to be there to know about them). I think there are a lot of people in Northernland who would give their proverbial eye teeth for that level of cover.

(The buses they tend to use are best described as "rough", but it's better than nowt - and sometimes you do end up with a full size coach which is luxury compared to a rotting 150!)

 

[fgwrich]

Aren't there two problems with that
1. Fitting all the stuff underneath a 2x20m unit (toilets, engines meeting emissions requirements).
2. ROSCOs not being a fan of diesel units due to potential for shorter lives.
Maybe one for fast charge battery units? They seem to have over 10 minutes at Bedford and much more (~30m) at Bletchley.

Whilst technically it might not be a bad idea, I really don’t think anyone along the Marston Vale wants to see anything with the words and letters Vivarail / 230 or D78 ever again along there.

(I also believe there is only the one fast charge unit converted so far)

In all honesty, @Bletchleyite has the right idea. Just get on with this section of East West. Close it if you have to whilst you crack on with the upgrades, and fix address the issues that prevent anything from a 165 to 196 being used upon it.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Whilst technically it might not be a bad idea, I really don’t think anyone along the Marston Vale wants to see anything with the words and letters Vivarail / 230 or D78 ever again along there.

(I also believe there is only the one fast charge unit converted so far)

Yes, although I think the plan for the technology is no more D-Trains, and it's more just proven for new builds (or maybe more ill-fated conversions from various end of life stock).

 

[Russel]

Street word ( local rumours)

2x MV 150 at tysley: One with bad flats and one needing a new wheel set.

No idea what is up with the third.

SO annoying as the service falls apart yet again

So, trying to run a modern railway with 40 year old units that have been run into the ground with no prospect of any kind or replacement isn't working out too well?

Who'd have thought it.

 

[DarloRich]

So, trying to run a modern railway with 40 year old units that have been run into the ground with no prospect of any kind or replacement isn't working out too well?

Who'd have thought it.

And yet they work fine in northern land.....

Suspect it is more having a micro fleet maintained in less than ideal fashion/location then age! And we have had some modern units. They didn't work. We got buses. For 2 bloody years!

 

[Starmill]

And yet they work fine in northern land.....

They work so well that Northern are reducing their availability by 5 from December...

 

[DarloRich]

They work so well that Northern are reducing their availability by 5 from December...

They will send the 5 to LNWR!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

They work so well that Northern are reducing their availability by 5 from December...

More short forms then unless the 769s get their act together.

 

[43096]

Whilst technically it might not be a bad idea, I really don’t think anyone along the Marston Vale wants to see anything with the words and letters Vivarail / 230 or D78 ever again along there.

If previous is anything to go by, I bet the MV mafia are even more annoyed now as they can’t blame VivaRail!

 

[childwallblues]

They work so well that Northern are reducing their availability by 5 from December...

interesting where are they off to and are they being replaced by 158s from TfW?

 

[Wyrleybart]

interesting where are they off to and are they being replaced by 158s from TfW?

Have no idea, but the poster said reduce availability rather than fleet. Perhaps the expectation is that during leaf fall season there WILL BE fewer available for traffic rather than there MAY BE ?

I am guessing the 150/1 and 150/2 share the same bogies and wheels etc.

I am still of the opinion that the MV 150s could be maintained at Beale St Leicester - an excellent "can do" depot who service a number of XC 170s every night.

 

[DarloRich]

Have no idea, but the poster said reduce availability rather than fleet. Perhaps the expectation is that during leaf fall season there WILL BE fewer available for traffic rather than there MAY BE ?

I am guessing the 150/1 and 150/2 share the same bogies and wheels etc.

I am still of the opinion that the MV 150s could be maintained at Beale St Leicester - an excellent "can do" depot who service a number of XC 170s every night.

Surely, you know, bletchley might be a more sensible suggestion.......

 

[cactustwirly]

Have no idea, but the poster said reduce availability rather than fleet. Perhaps the expectation is that during leaf fall season there WILL BE fewer available for traffic rather than there MAY BE ?

I am guessing the 150/1 and 150/2 share the same bogies and wheels etc.

I am still of the opinion that the MV 150s could be maintained at Beale St Leicester - an excellent "can do" depot who service a number of XC 170s every night.

It's only stabling right? Leicester don't do any maintenance for XC I don't think.
It's quite far to take a 150 from the Marston Vale

 

[Yorkshire09876]

And yet they work fine in northern land.....

Suspect it is more having a micro fleet maintained in less than ideal fashion/location then age! And we have had some modern units. They didn't work. We got buses. For 2 bloody years!

Or is it just that Northern have a larger fleet, and there aren't many places on their network where only 150s can go, so they can get away with having more out of service without it being as noticeable?