Marsh Barton Railway Station Exeter - Construction and opening.

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @InOban to add to.

 

[InOban]

Devon's newest railway station has had a successful first year

Festivities will be in full swing on Monday following the first anniversary of the opening of Marsh Barton station.

www.devonlive.com

Devon’s newest station is celebrating one year of being open. Festivities will be in full swing on Monday following the first anniversary of the opening of Marsh Barton station.

In the first 12 months, almost 90,000 passenger journeys have been made, benefitting local residents and businesses in the area.

“Marsh Barton is a real success story and the passenger numbers clearly show how important good transport links are for the local economy, to local people, businesses and the wider community.”

Report on first year. I don't know whether 90000 is alive or below the business case.

 

[Skyblue67]

I don't know whether 90000 is alive or below the business case

https://heartofswlep.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DCC-TC-Marsh-Barton-and-Edginswell-Stations-Publication-Version.pdf

The Devon Metro Appraisal Report1 assessed demand at each station, with around 360,000 annual trips forecast at Marsh Barton

 

[Dan G]

That assumed Edginswell being built too, which, 11 years on, still hasn't happened

 

[REVUpminster]

That assumed Edginswell being built too, which, 11 years on, still hasn't happened

And I can't see it being built unless the proposed merger of Torbay and Devon councils goes ahead. I don't know what Torbay has done with the money already earmarked from the new stations fund. Disappeared down a black hole of rising costs during this hiatus.

 

[WesternBiker]

"The Devon Metro Appraisal Report1 assessed demand at each station, with around 360,000 annual trips forecast at Marsh Barton"

https://heartofswlep.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DCC-TC-Marsh-Barton-and-Edginswell-Stations-Publication-Version.pdf

360,000 trips a year looks optimistic for a station with essentially an hourly service, which primarily serves an industrial park.

If the aim was tempt commuters out of their cars, one train an hour not much of an incentive - and there's a 20-minute interval bus service from Marsh Barton into Exeter, and a 15-minute interval service from nearby Alphington. The current £2 bus fare policy must make those attractive alternatives.

 

[ollyexe2808]

360,000 trips a year looks optimistic for a station with essentially an hourly service, which primarily serves an industrial park.

If the aim was tempt commuters out of their cars, one train an hour not much of an incentive - and there's a 20-minute interval bus service from Marsh Barton into Exeter, and a 15-minute interval service from nearby Alphington. The current £2 bus fare policy must make those attractive alternatives.

Agree for the most part but Marsh Barton is earmarked for a large new housing area which would sit very close to the station so this may bolster numbers in the coming years - more away from MB than towards it but entry/exits to the station would certainly increase if that was the case. What is disappointing is that the bus services (which is a park and ride) adjacent to the station do not run on Sundays, so onward connections limited for leisure travel. To truly make the case, the Devon Metro needs to have increased frequency to indeed call it a Metro - 1 tph is not metro frequency. But, as it is on the mainline without passing loops, I can't see how they can increase frequency.

 

[Xavi]

To truly make the case, the Devon Metro needs to have increased frequency to indeed call it a Metro - 1 tph is not metro frequency.

It is 2tph but only 1 can call at Marsh Barton for pathing reasons. Perhaps it will change when the Project Churchward stock arrives (if ever) with better acceleration.

 

[Dan G]

And I can't see it being built unless the proposed merger of Torbay and Devon councils goes ahead. I don't know what Torbay has done with the money already earmarked from the new stations fund. Disappeared down a black hole of rising costs during this hiatus.

The station is finally designed and has planning permission. However that took so long that Torbay Council think they're now £10mn short due to inflation, despite having £13mn of funding in place.

For comparison Marsh Barton was £16mn. It doesn't have lifts as Edginswell would and surely lifts don't cost £7mn, but who knows with these things.

 

[irish_rail]

I would compare Marsh Barton with the Plymouth suburban stations at Keyham and St Buedeaux. Very poorly used due to buses being far more convenient , and a relatively infrequent rail service. I've never understood why Marsh Barton was given the go ahead being as it serves an industrial estate and then just marshland to the south. I confess I wasn't aware of new housing to be built, but surely that should have been done before the station was given the go ahead. My experience of Marsh Barton is (Plymouth drivers do drive one rush hour service that stops there) is usually 8 or 9 passengers. And that's the rush hour.

 

[michael74]

A sunny day does see a good number of people going to the pub and walking etc, it's definitely getting busier, but agree the commuter numbers are not being helped by the infrequent and slightly odd stopping patterns through the day. I am not sure 175s/Churchward will make that much of a difference as you are always wedged between a long distance service.

 

[ollyexe2808]

The plans for housing are quite expansive and based on a principle that residents will be using the trains and new bus routes to access the wider area. Much of that planning is in the pipeline but as is typical of the speed of planning, the designs are going through endless consultations and tweaks meaning any decent change is not likely for many years (and all the benefits will probably be gone if they wait too long). I see a decent amount of usage throughout the week at MB, helped in part by the access to the riverside. It could do with more trains stopping there though. Guessing pathing issues are to do with long distance intercity services taking priority? An ideal world (with much MUCH more infrastructure and money) would be a frequency of 15 minutes with other facilities at MB such as bus services to the hospital and other parts of the city, and even local shops. That would be a metro service. As it stands, the frequency at rush hour is better but outside of that, an hourly service puts it on par with branch line services.

 

[Purple Train]

I would compare Marsh Barton with the Plymouth suburban stations at Keyham and St Buedeaux. Very poorly used due to buses being far more convenient , and a relatively infrequent rail service.

The situation west of Plymouth is quite mad, I agree. What worries me about the potential of Marsh Barton to go the same way is that they've become a chicken and egg scenario. Buses are more convenient so the rail service isn't seen as terribly viable and is therefore a token train every two hours, but, without a higher frequency, the buses will remain the preferred option! Marsh Barton clearly shows that the appetite for investment in actually building the station is there, but there doesn't seem much appetite for making it - and, I would argue, rail as a whole - convenient, despite the fact that Exeter is reasonably well provided for, certainly by south-west standards. This is perhaps more applicable to Dockyard, Keyham, and the St Budeauxs at the minute, but, once the "shiny new station" effect wears away in 20 or 30 years' time, it may well degenerate if the plans for the surrounding area don't come to fruition.

Building the transport infrastructure first or the development first is kind of a lose-lose situation, unless the entire thing is built. It's a similar concept to Oakervee's plans for HS2.

 

[The exile]

I wasn't aware of new housing to be built, but surely that should have been done before the station was given the go ahead. My experience of Marsh Barton is (Plymouth drivers do drive one rush hour service that stops there) is usually 8 or 9 passengers. And that's the rush hour.

If you want people in new developments to use public transport, then that public transport needs to be already up and running before the residents develop travel habits using private transport.

 

[Randomer]

Anecdotally the times I've used it this summer it seems busier than during the winter or when it first opened. Two different groups who had visited the 2 pubs along the ship canal on my last visit, including one group who had got the ferry over from Topsham.

I would echo the need for a better stopping pattern if usage is going to get any higher or be any use to people using it for work rather than leisure. I've missed the train a couple of times now and timing wise given up and walked into Exeter for Central or to St Thomas.

I also wonder how much the usage is being influenced by people doing linear walks e.g. train to Starcross and walking back towards Marsh Barton. Wouldn't show up in ticket sales if they were travelling from Exeter or elsewhere.

 

[DannyMich2018]

We were on hols last week and travelling back to Dawlish Warren around 17.20 and we stopped and I'd say at least 12-15 people got on here.

 

[davetheguard]

If you want people in new developments to use public transport, then that public transport needs to be already up and running before the residents develop travel habits using private transport.

I'll second that. That is the way round it should be. Public transport first, new houses second.

Do it the other way round and the new house owners will already be using their cars and will stick with them. And you won't attract people to the new houses who can't or don't want to drive.

 

[ollyexe2808]

I'll second that. That is the way round it should be. Public transport first, new houses second.

Do it the other way round and the new house owners will already be using their cars and will stick with them. And you won't attract people to the new houses who can't or don't want to drive.

Agreed, and I believe this is the ethos and reasoning behind this particular area of housing. As the area will also feature new shops and services, it makes sense to embed the station first. A big "however" would be that the value of doing this would be significantly damaged by not putting suitable infrastructure to support people to make those changes - so onward bus routes and safe, convenient walking/cycling routes etc. I won't get into the discussion over car-centric towns etc, it is off topic and also quite contentious!
Back on topic, I am curious as to the breakdown of that usage figure. Guessing there is no more detail as to timings of trips?

 

[RPI]

Let's not forget, when Digby & Sowton was first built it was seen as an embarrassment for the first few years, very low numbers, now that everything has built up around it, it's now one of the busiest stations in the area, these things take time. Marsh Barton does also suffer from the ad-hoc service it receives, it's not even consistent as some of the "stoppers" don't stop there yet some of the semi-fasts do!

 

[REVUpminster]

One train an hour is not enough when two trains come up from Exmouth at half hour intervals. One of the trains has too lose time often at Dawlish Warren so Paignton arrival and departures are not half an hour apart even though it is generally the same time each hour.
In reverse Paignton trains leave at the same irregular intervals but one has to be held up usually at Exeter to make an even half hour to Exmouth.

The timetable has an allowance for Edginswell even though the station could still be years away.

 

[Parallel]

One train an hour is not enough when two trains come up from Exmouth at half hour intervals. One of the trains has too lose time often at Dawlish Warren so Paignton arrival and departures are not half an hour apart even though it is generally the same time each hour.
In reverse Paignton trains leave at the same irregular intervals but one has to be held up usually at Exeter to make an even half hour to Exmouth.

The timetable has an allowance for Edginswell even though the station could still be years away.

Indeed. I’d imagine it’s due to pathing constraints - Polsloe Bridge and St James’ Park are also hourly when they could do with a half hourly service. Not even all of the Paignton - Exmouth trains stop at Exeter St Thomas!

 

[REVUpminster]

Indeed. I’d imagine it’s due to pathing constraints - Polsloe Bridge and St James’ Park are also hourly when they could do with a half hourly service. Not even all of the Paignton - Exmouth trains stop at Exeter St Thomas!

And I do wonder why? GWR always seem to be afraid the stations will be better used if they had a half hourly service which is the minimum for a "metro" service. GWR have never called/promoted a metro service which is only used by Devon County Council still as an aspiration. Cullumpton and Wellington still look likely only to get a hourly service.

 

[The exile]

The question is surely “how much would expresses have to be slowed by to allow a more frequent service?” followed by “Is it worth it?” I suspect in most cases the answer is probably “yes”.

 

[dk1]

If you want people in new developments to use public transport, then that public transport needs to be already up and running before the residents develop travel habits using private transport.

That’s the way I look at it too. Get the infrastructure in place first and take the hit with low loadings initially. Exactly what happened in the Docklands with the DLR running through wasteland initially.

 

[irish_rail]

The question is surely “how much would expresses have to be slowed by to allow a more frequent service?” followed by “Is it worth it?” I suspect in most cases the answer is probably “yes”.

Slowing down expresses serving Plymouth and Cornwall to improve the Marsh Barton service would be an extremely poor choice. I worry Wellington and Cullompton are already likely to have an impact , as where as currently late runners ex London can attempt to make up time, this will be harder in future with stoppers between Taunton and Exeter.

 

[The exile]

Slowing down expresses serving Plymouth and Cornwall to improve the Marsh Barton service would be an extremely poor choice. I worry Wellington and Cullompton are already likely to have an impact , as where as currently late runners ex London can attempt to make up time, this will be harder in future with stoppers between Taunton and Exeter.

Surely that depends on whether the answer to the first question is “1 minute” or “10 minutes”. I cannot seriously see how extending a 3 hour journey by 2 minutes to enable local journeys to be sped up by up to half an hour (which is what doubling an hourly frequency effectively means) is so bad. If trains are frequently delayed such that they need to make up time, then the root causes of that need to be addressed.

 

[zwk500]

The question is surely “how much would expresses have to be slowed by to allow a more frequent service?” followed by “Is it worth it?” I suspect in most cases the answer is probably “yes”.

Normally the answer to 'is it worth slowing down expresses for a local station?' is a resounding 'NO', even by 1 or 2 minutes.

 

[RPI]

Slowing down expresses serving Plymouth and Cornwall to improve the Marsh Barton service would be an extremely poor choice. I worry Wellington and Cullompton are already likely to have an impact , as where as currently late runners ex London can attempt to make up time, this will be harder in future with stoppers between Taunton and Exeter.

Wellington and Cullompton should be ok, assuming it's the Cardiff-Penzance service that will call, they're generally timed around ten minutes after the down Pad-Plymouth/Penzance and 20 minutes before the down XC, though currently only two hourly most of the day

 

[dk1]

Wellington and Cullompton should be ok, assuming it's the Cardiff-Penzance service that will call, they're generally timed around ten minutes after the down Pad-Plymouth/Penzance and 20 minutes before the down XC, though currently only two hourly most of the day

Will be a big bonus when those stations open and Cardiff is linked to Cornwall on an hourly basis.

 

[LUYMun]

That assumed Edginswell being built too, which, 11 years on, still hasn't happened

No, the passenger numbers were forecasted for each station since Edginswell itself was expected to have 350,000 annually in the report.