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Marriage: What's the point?

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91104

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I have never had no desire to get married as can't see the point. I've had long term relationships but never had the urge to propose. Maybe I'm a commitment phobe but I can't see what difference a piece of paper and ceremony makes and as I've got older I've become even more cynical due to seeing several work colleagues lose their houses or half their pensions in a divorce. Also my Mum being twice divorced and most other family members going through divorces has probably gave me an unbalanced view. The way I see it from my perspective is I paid off all my mortgage 3 years ago and also got a nice pension pot building up as I've been working on the railway for 25 years since I was 16 so why would I want to risk losing even some of that. plus there's the cost of the wedding day itself in this social media age where everyone is trying to out do everyone else and stag nights seem to have gone from a few drinks in town to whole lavish weekends so yet more expense same with honeymoons.
I'd just be interested to know if anyone feels the same as me and I'm not abnormal and also from people who have had long happy marriages to put their side across.
 
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AM9

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Not quite sure where you are coming from as you start out implying that being married is no different to living together. Well your presumption that only being married puts your house at risk of sharing on breakup is wrong. You need to understand that any long term relationship may end with that whether there is "a piece of paper and a ceremony " or not.
Then you mention that your family is riven with failed marriages so why should you. The answer is no reason at all. If you don't want to get married then don't. If you find the right person to marry, this question may be answered by yourself the other way and (probably) your concern for your material possessions may take the back seat for the potential of happiness that a long-term personal relationship might bring.
We're all different so maybe you will continue for the rest of your life with what seems to me a cynical outlook.
 
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ExRes

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I have never had no desire to get married as can't see the point. I've had long term relationships but never had the urge to propose. Maybe I'm a commitment phobe but I can't see what difference a piece of paper and ceremony makes and as I've got older I've become even more cynical due to seeing several work colleagues lose their houses or half their pensions in a divorce. Also my Mum being twice divorced and most other family members going through divorces has probably gave me an unbalanced view. The way I see it from my perspective is I paid off all my mortgage 3 years ago and also got a nice pension pot building up as I've been working on the railway for 25 years since I was 16 so why would I want to risk losing even some of that. plus there's the cost of the wedding day itself in this social media age where everyone is trying to out do everyone else and stag nights seem to have gone from a few drinks in town to whole lavish weekends so yet more expense same with honeymoons.
I'd just be interested to know if anyone feels the same as me and I'm not abnormal and also from people who have had long happy marriages to put their side across.

AM9 has said it very well, you have a simple choice of protecting your assets by living alone permanently or having a 'partner', with or without a marriage, and 'sharing' said assets in the case of the relationship ending
 

deltic

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Marriage is not about a fancy and expensive wedding or lavish honeymoon but making a public commitment and promise that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone come what may. You may not want or feel a need to make that commitment and that's fine, no one requires you to do so. Marriage is not for everyone and I know plenty of couples who have lived together happily for decades without feeling the need to get married. But as AM9 and ExRes make clear just because you are not married doesnt mean if you do split up there may not be a financial consequence. Whilst there are still problems with inheritance if one of you dies and there is no will and you are not married.
 

cjmillsnun

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Marriage is not about a fancy and expensive wedding or lavish honeymoon but making a public commitment and promise that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone come what may. You may not want or feel a need to make that commitment and that's fine, no one requires you to do so. Marriage is not for everyone and I know plenty of couples who have lived together happily for decades without feeling the need to get married. But as AM9 and ExRes make clear just because you are not married doesnt mean if you do split up there may not be a financial consequence. Whilst there are still problems with inheritance if one of you dies and there is no will and you are not married.

I think there is the problem with marriage. Most people don't understand the commitment that it should be.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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We have had forty years of a very happy marriage and although we are of different natures, we are said to be a perfect examples of how "opposites attract" and our children and grandchildren are a joy to us.

One thing that a good marriage teaches you is that the matter of sharing is something that both enjoy and selfishness is something that never comes into the equation.
 
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yorksrob

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There is an important point in the original post.

If the state effectively declares you de facto married (whether you go through with a ceremony or not) what's the point of having a ceremony anyway.

Personally, unless a couple has children, I believe it should be for that couple to decide whether they want to get married, not the state.

To clarify, I'm not saying the state should have a right to declare a couple married if they do have children - just that it's justified in getting involved in the break-up settlement in that circumstance !
 
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beeza1

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Well your presumption that only being married puts your house at risk of sharing on breakup is wrong.

Not necessarily, if the house was bought and paid for before the "other party" moves in then said "other party" has no financial interest in the property,the concept of "Common Law" does not exist and never has.
I am still amazed how many people still think if you live together for 2 years you have the same rights and obligations as married couples.
 

GrimsbyPacer

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Marriage is important for the kids more than anything.
A kid born out of wedlock can be bullied more with harsh words.
Also stability is important, knowing there's a strong bond.
Tradition is what marriage is, it's been around for millenia, and despite sham marriages and other bad marriages, you should get married for the record books, your family name, etc.
 

radamfi

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There's nothing wrong with having a ceremony to celebrate your relationship if you want, although I personally find weddings tedious and a huge waste of money. However, there should be no need for the state to recognise or regulate marriages and I don't see the need for an official register of marriages to be kept. There should be no financial or legal benefit, nor penalty for getting married or divorced.
 
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yorkie

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Marriage is important for the kids more than anything.
A kid born out of wedlock can be bullied more with harsh words.
I do not agree with this. Many kids have unmarried parents these days and it is considered perfectly normal. They are not bullied for it. What's your source for this? This is 2016, not 1916.
 

deltic

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Marriage is important for the kids more than anything.
A kid born out of wedlock can be bullied more with harsh words.
Also stability is important, knowing there's a strong bond.
Tradition is what marriage is, it's been around for millenia, and despite sham marriages and other bad marriages, you should get married for the record books, your family name, etc.

I agree stability is very important for children- however being born in or out of wedlock as Yorkie says is of little issue.

I certainly disagree that you should get married for the record books or your family name
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's nothing wrong with having a ceremony to celebrate your relationship if you want, although I personally find weddings tedious and a huge waste of money. However, there should be no need for the state to recognise or regulate marriages and I don't see the need for an official register of marriages to be kept. There should be no financial or legal benefit, nor penalty for getting married or divorced.

A marriage is a contract which it gives it participants some rights and responsibilities - like the majority of contracts is it superfluous when all goes well but when things go wrong it makes life easier for everyone if that contract is registered somewhere and people know that you are in hopefully a long term relationship. In the past it was done outside the state through the Church but as people wanted to have non-Church weddings the state became involved.

I agree that there should be no financial benefits to getting married. I cant imagine many people marry or stay together due to the financial benefits of doing so.
 

WelshBluebird

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Personally when it comes to marriage I am pretty traditional. I do want to get married etc. Despite the fact it isn't really needed like it used to be, I still hope it is something I can do. It is very much a personal decision though.

There are also the legal and tax benefits, although if I am honest I am not sure of the specifics (or even if these have been ironed out over the years).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Marriage is important for the kids more than anything.
A kid born out of wedlock can be bullied more with harsh words.
Also stability is important, knowing there's a strong bond.
Tradition is what marriage is, it's been around for millenia, and despite sham marriages and other bad marriages, you should get married for the record books, your family name, etc.

Please say this post is a joke!
 

radamfi

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A really bad thing about marriage is the pressure it puts people under. First of all there might be an expectation that if you are in a relationship for a number of years then people might start asking if you are getting married and if not, why not? Then there is the nervousness involved in whether to propose and if so, will you be accepted. Then there is the pressure of the day itself. If marriage didn't exist we would be spared all of this.

It is also arguably rather reckless and naive to assume that you will always feel the same way about the same person for life. But of course there is always the divorce option, but then the fact that divorce exists means that marriage is irrelevant, because it can always be dissolved on request.
 

backontrack

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Marriage is important for the kids more than anything.
A kid born out of wedlock can be bullied more with harsh words.
Also stability is important, knowing there's a strong bond.
Tradition is what marriage is, it's been around for millenia, and despite sham marriages and other bad marriages, you should get married for the record books, your family name, etc.

I do agree (not heavily, though) that marriage may affect children, but I can't think that 'strong bonds' and 'tradition' enter into the equation. By the former statement, I mean that I guess it might affect a child's happiness, but only by a small amount. It's probably all to do with how secure the child feels about the marriage.
 
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TheNewNo2

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If you don't want to get married, you don't have to, and no one can force you to (in this country any way).

To me, marriage is important. I'm not straight, and while I'm fairly young, I'm not so young that my being able to marry the person I love would be granted to me eventually.

The case for marriage to me is fairly simple - it means something. It's not to me about what it means in the eyes of the state or in whatever god you believe in, but in the view of society at large. Marriage is the way of legitimising your relationship. People know what it means, and what it means is important. Civil unions and such are all very well, and they may confer the same rights, but it doesn't confer the same meaning.



A really bad thing about marriage is the pressure it puts people under. First of all there might be an expectation that if you are in a relationship for a number of years then people might start asking if you are getting married and if not, why not? Then there is the nervousness involved in whether to propose and if so, will you be accepted. Then there is the pressure of the day itself. If marriage didn't exist we would be spared all of this.

It is also arguably rather reckless and naive to assume that you will always feel the same way about the same person for life. But of course there is always the divorce option, but then the fact that divorce exists means that marriage is irrelevant, because it can always be dissolved on request.

I've been with my girlfriend for four years now, and this past Christmas we agreed that we're going to move in together. And that led me to wondering - do we then get married? I want to get married, I know it sounds a bit silly as a rationale, but I want to see my name and hers next to each other on the family tree my Dad's spent the past 15 years making. I didn't know whether she felt the same way about it as I did, I had the vague idea she'd been a bit against it when it had come up before. Also she's six years younger than me, and I didn't know if she was ready for that in her life. So after a long silence together in the dark, and her assuring me that whatever I wanted to ask I should just ask it and she wouldn't take it the wrong way, I asked at what point we should get married. Call it popping the metaquestion. Her answer was when we're living together. Asking her that was incredibly nerve-wracking, but it means that now I don't need to worry about rejection when the time comes. We're not engaged, but I guess you could say we're engaged to be engaged, and moreover we're both on the same page about what the timescale for that is. When it comes to it I don't plan anything big regarding proposal or a wedding. I'm certainly not going to do what my cousins did (one in a Cornish cave, the other in a Lapland ice palace). But I do want my family to see me exchange vows with the person I love, and who I want to spend my life with.

I guess this is all a bit rambly, but the gist is this - marriage means something to society at large, but what's more important is what it means to you. I won't deny that marriage has some pretty shady history - legal spousal rape for one - and for that reason I can understand why some people may not want to participate. That was a big divide in the LGBT community - some wanted marriage rights so they could be like straight people, some didn't want marriage rights because they viewed the entire institution as corrupt. I choose to believe that marriage means something different to each generation, and that modern couples are remaking marriage into something better and fairer than it used to be.
 

Bald Rick

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Being slightly dyslexic, and speed reading the thread titles, I read this one as:

"Merseyside: What's the point?"

Which I thought was a little harsh, albeit still worth debate.
 

cb a1

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I've been with my other half for nearly 23 years now. Not married; one son.

In contrast to TheNewNo2, if we could we would have a civil partnership, but as we're not gay, we can't. Interestingly though the reason we want a civil partnership is that "it confers the same rights but not the same meaning as marriage" :)

This is not to say that I don't think people should marry. If two people want to get married, then best of luck to them.
 

RichmondCommu

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I'm not big on religion but you would probably put me down as C of E. My wonderful and beautiful wife is a Sikh and as you can imagine, in order to keep everyone happy marriage was not an easy process. I loved my wife dearly way before we got married and indeed we only got married when my wife became pregnant. Our first children (twins, now grown up) were not planned and in all honesty if we didn't have children we wouldn't have got married. We basically tied the knot to make things easier for our children in explaining why Mummy and Daddy had different second names.

In our opinion it doesn't matter if you're married or not, all that matters is that you love each other. And what's more marriage is very expensive; have you seen the prices of dresses?
 
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TheNewNo2

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Social expectations are a bit of a bummer when it comes to proposals and marriages. I for one would not want to marry anyone who'd marry me after a flashy proposal. It's awkward for everyone else, keep it private.
 

RichmondCommu

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Social expectations are a bit of a bummer when it comes to proposals and marriages. I for one would not want to marry anyone who'd marry me after a flashy proposal. It's awkward for everyone else, keep it private.

I concur. I asked my wife to marry me late one summers evening in Richmond Park. Just the two of us. As soon as I started to go down on one knee my wife told me that I should not have to beg for anything. My wife then said "yes" and kissed me. I don't think you can get any more simple than that!
 

Welshman

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Some people are given to marriage. Others are not. Therefore people are free to choose, and respect the choice of others.

I was married to my first wife for 23 years before she died of cancer. I am now very happily married to my second wife, and we celebrate our 20th anniversary this year.

Before retiring, I had officiated at the celebration of the marriage of many couples. Some were very lavish, with all the trimmings. Others were simple ceremonies. You don't have to have expensive dresses, honeymoons in Barbados, etc.

What does matter is the love, the sincerity and the commitment. For those who do marry, the emotional, psychological and spiritual well-being of knowing someone loves you so much that, despite being the cantankerous person you may be, they are willing to make a public declaration they intend to stand by you for the rest of your life, is really quite some thing.
 
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me123

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Marriage is important for the kids more than anything.
A kid born out of wedlock can be bullied more with harsh words.
Also stability is important, knowing there's a strong bond.

Marriage has nothing to do with any of this though. Children do not need to be raised in a marriage. It's so common nowadays for children to be born "out of wedlock" that I can't imagine it ever being an issue any more, at least not in the UK. Stability and security is important for children, but marriage does not guarantee this (a divorce is relatively easy to accomplish). Other legal documentation can largely replace what benefits marriage provides; for example, a will.

It's really up to the couple. If they want to get married, good luck to them. If they don't, that's fine. I know lots of people who've said they don't want marriage, and I respect that.
 

NY Yankee

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I'm 31 and I've never had a girlfriend (yes, I know that's embarrassing). I have problems meeting women since I stutter and I have bad acne. Because of that, I'm self-conscious and afraid to approach women. The women I've encountered in the States tend to be shallow. They only care about how tall a guy is, how handsome he is, or how much money they make. Women have said that I'm boring and I'm not assertive enough. It's frustrating since I just want to meet a nice woman.

If/when I visit London and Paris, I hope to meet some women. Based on my encounters with foreign women, particularly from Eastern Europe, are less shallow and judgmental. And based on the travel videos that I've watched, the women in Paris are gorgeous.
 

radamfi

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The mere existence of marriage does affect other people. When you enter a relationship, unless you broach the subject of marriage right from the start, for example stating on your dating profile that you don't believe in marriage, there is the possibility that the partners could eventually discover that they have different expectations regarding marriage and that could ruin an otherwise satisfactory relationship. If marriage didn't exist, then it would not enter the equation.
 

DarloRich

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In our opinion it doesn't matter if you're married or not, all that matters is that you love each other. And what's more marriage is very expensive; have you seen the prices of dresses?

Exactly. BTW - have you seen the price of divorce!

I have seen and dealt with enough divorce to have a very low opinion of marriage. From a legal point of view you can arrange your affairs quite satisfactorily without marriage, although you do loose out on the ability to double up your inheritance tax allowances.

The key is to make sure you have a decent Will in place.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Marriage, as they say, is an institution, but from certain feelings expressed by some contributors to this thread, they appear to wish to support the Groucho Marx humerous addition to that adage...""Who wants to live in an institution?"

Perhaps being from a generation earlier than most contributors, the posting made by Welshman has offered the nearest explanation of the true meaning of marriage.
 

DarloRich

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What does matter is the love, the sincerity and the commitment. For those who do marry, the emotional, psychological and spiritual well-being of knowing someone loves you so much that, despite being the cantankerous person you may be, they are willing to make a public declaration they intend to stand by you for the rest of your life, is really quite some thing.

But why do you need a marriage ceremony to prove that? What is different the day after? You are still the same people. I don't understand the need to have a bit of paper to prove that.

And for lots of people it isn't for the rest of their lives: c.42% of marriage is in the UK end in divorce
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Perhaps being from a generation earlier than most contributors, the posting made by Welshman has offered the nearest explanation of the true meaning of marriage.

I think that may be correct. I doubt many people from my generation or younger feel the same. Unmarried or divorced families are the norm these days.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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But why do you need a marriage ceremony to prove that? What is different the day after? You are still the same people. I don't understand the need to have a bit of paper to prove that.

The formal "bit of paper" that is signed after the marriage ceremony to which you make reference to is something that has been there for ages long past and is something that originally was intended to be a copy of the entry made in the parish Register of Marriages.

One might well ask for how long have marriages been noted in such a way in Britain and also how many countries of the world issue such a document that is a copy of an official record kept. I can only speak for marriages celebrated in a Christian ceremony or at a Register Office with regards to the registering of a marriage and it makes an interesting thought how marriages celebrated by Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc, people and those living under Communist regimes lead to the issuing of a similar document.
 
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