March for Railway Jobs

[Oswyntail]

....
The only saving grace was that Mrs Thatcher stopped Major from signing up for the ERM, otherwise as a Country we would now be like Greece.

On a historical note, John Major, as Chancellor under Thatcher, did sign Britain up to the ERM. A couple of years later, with Major as Prime Minister and Norman Lamont as Chancellor, Britain withdrew. It is still a moot point whether, had Britain remained out at the first point or stayed in at the second, the economic history of the country would have been much different. The problem was, as Alan Waters pointed out, that the scheme was "half-baked" - either go for full economic union (with a single unified economic policy covering North and South Europe), or let the individual currencies find their own way. The hope when we went in was that a unified economic approach was feasible (without handing over sovereignty) but the intransigence of Germany and France (and a few others) scuppered this. This resulted in the market conditions that led to "Black Wednesday" and Britain's withdrawal.
A "Common Market", even a "European Economic Union" has much to be said for it, so long as there is a unified economic policy. But this is proving impossible without political union, which no one wants (but will, IMHO, come)

 

[lookingforit35]

The really annoying thing about lookingforit35's argument is that you can't counter it with any freedom of choice or quality of product argument. :

In truth I wasnt arguing a point at all, just making an observation. ie that for some folk it's do as I say, not as I do.

But what we can say is that a little bit like a foreign owned manufacturer building trains in the UK, there are numerous similarities in the motor manufacturing industry - Mini, Honda, Nissan, Vauxhall, Toyota, Jaguar, Land Rover. So it wouldnt be too hard for those arguing that the government MUST buy British to have done so themselves if they really wanted to, no?

 

[Masbroughlad]

Its the way of the world of today - open markets etc.

I would much prefer to have seen the manufacture stay in the UK, but if it wasn't the best on offer product and price wise, then I can see why Siemens got it.

Gone (sadly) are the days when the rail industry looked after itself in its own country (BR). Maybe one day things will go full circle?

I can always remember seeing 'Made in Horwich' on a Mk1 carriage in the 70s and asking my dad where it was!

People should have been shouting a LONG time ago, but hindsight is a great thing.

 

[Greenback]

People should have been shouting a LONG time ago, but hindsight is a great thing.

Yes, it's a bit late now when other manufacturing/industries have gone to the wall.

 

[ag]

ok so ive read this thread and some of the points are good points to discuss - im one thats always open to discusion and freedom of speach etc

but one point really wound me up - the fact that it was being given too much air time !!!

ive got to say this is a shocking statement, it needs more pushing, more notice needs to be taken, the national papers whould get behind it, whatever anyone thinks 1400 jobs are going from the site in derby and more could follow (I am one of the ones at risk). yes some were contractors but some of these people have been here 2 to 3 years and on the back of the thameslink project could have been made permanent members of staff

you try telling the people here, those with mortgages, those with familys, and me personally I get married in September, honeymoon and then on the day I come back to work im likely to be told I have no job ! talk about back down to earth with a bump !!!!! meaning that on January 4th I (potentially) will have no job to go to - YEAH HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO !!!!!!!! all my personal plans are now on hold, we were planning to buy our house and start a family in the next 12 months or so, I can't do this now. yes I could jump ship and try to get another job now, but that would leave behind a small amount of redundancy money, which is at least a small compensation, I dont want to jump ship, I want to work for this fantastic company who has supported me over the past years with qualifications - im part way through a university course which if I want to carry on I will now have to find the money (£3000 ish) over the next 2 years not including exams and registration fees, If I lose my job I will not be continuing the course as I just cant afford this so this will delay my progression in my chosen career and potentially go against me when applying for new jobs in the future so it will be a case of dropping back down the ladder and trying to move up again, in the long run, less money to spend going back into the economy, bye bye to any holidays, bye bye to a happy life style and hello to worrying about how we are going to pay the bills - and before anyone jumps on this im not in a well paid job but it is a comfortable salary.

the most annoying thing is the fact we are now reading that Siemens bid is not compliant, with regards to the bogies - they have even tried to buy our bogies to put on there vehicle - SO how can the government allow there bid to be prefered bidder.

david cameron has been quoted as saying "its not his job" when a delegation from Derby went down to speak to the government. of course its his job hes the prime minster (for now !!!!!)

fantastic turn out in Derby over the weekend, I just hope we get listened to because its not just bombardier its the supply chain in general - one supplier I know very well will be laying off 75% of there staff because they are not a Siemens supplier as Siemens will try to use local suppliers in Germany as much as possible, this supplier is also in the Derby area so thats another 50ish jobs gone straight away.

 

[90019]

you try telling the people here, those with mortgages, those with familys, and me personally I get married in September, honeymoon and then on the day I come back to work im likely to be told I have no job ! talk about back down to earth with a bump !!!!! meaning that on January 4th I (potentially) will have no job to go to - YEAH HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO !!!!!!!!

Simple question;
Have you been spending your time out campaigning for all the other people who have lost their jobs throughout the UK in the past couple of years, or is it only now because your job is on the line that you're interested and are using the 'Last British train builder' crap to try and gain support?

The contract went to the company with the best bid, the fact that Bombardier didn't get it is purely the fault Bombardier, and trying to blame other people for it is frankly pathetic.
If you're going to build shoddy products and rely on getting contracts just for being British, then you've no one to blame but yourself for losing out.


The Turbostars and Electrostars are nice looking trains, inside and out - and I do like them a lot - it's just a shame that their build quality isn't up to the same standard.

 

[Clip]

Simple question;
Have you been spending your time out campaigning for all the other people who have lost their jobs throughout the UK in the past couple of years, or is it only now because your job is on the line that you're interested and are using the 'Last British train builder' crap to try and gain support?

The contract went to the company with the best bid, the fact that Bombardier didn't get it is purely the fault Bombardier, and trying to blame other people for it is frankly pathetic.
If you're going to build shoddy products and rely on getting contracts just for being British, then you've no one to blame but yourself for losing out.


The Turbostars and Electrostars are nice looking trains, inside and out - and I do like them a lot - it's just a shame that their build quality isn't up to the same standard.

Spot on!

As i said at the time - They should be looking at the management and why THEY lost the contract to build the trains and why they haven't been actually bidding for anything else nor the refurbishment and maintenance of other units rather then hedging their bets on this big one.

Whats all that abbot then? blame the govt for your companies(and workforce for the problems of previously built trains there I have to add) shoddiness not to be able to put together a cost effective bid to build something new.

Im all for UK manufacturing and everything like that - BUT - as a taxpayer i want value for money thankyouverymuch and thats all anyone really wants because if you say it isnt then your lying or else you wouldnt shop at lidl netto aldi for a few bits and moan at Tesco for not having a pint of milk cheap enough(whilst moaning that farmers dont get paid enough).

Sorry but thats how i see it.