March against cuts on Saturday 26th

[route:oxford]

Mods' note:
Split from the special trains topic.
Please use this for discussion about the march itself, cuts etc, and leave the other topic to discuss the special trains only.


That's absolutely ridiculous!

I know that firms permit union reps a reasonable amount of time to engage in their duties as a rep... But is it really appropriate for them to be organsing rail and coach tickets for all and sundry using government email addresses? (I recognise that PCS and others are not government sites).

No wonder there are cuts when there is such time wasting going on.

Ok, now rant over.

Really interested to find out what stock they are using!

 

[tbtc]

I take it there will be no strikes that day to inconvenience the Brothers?

 

[jopsuk]

One would hope that they are well enough organised to avoid that, and I've no rumblings of imminent strikes?

 

[embers25]

If only all the special trains had to be cancelled at last minute due to strike action and then they'd all know how the train union staff make the rest of us feel. I'm guessing Arriva Trains Wales, London Midland, Docklands and London Underground staff aren't limiting overtime working or going on strike on demo day. In the case of the 0726 from Exeter I'm hoping the " Please note: will only run if train is fully booked" comment means that SWT won't put extra coaches on the existing train unless the extra coaches are fully booked and not that the 0726 won't run lol! Also if the extra set isn't fully booked and cancelled surely that will mean that those still wishing to travel will then cause massive ovecrowding in the normal coaches? Then again when did the unions EVER really care about the travelling public....cue RMT guy...

 

[142094]

I know that firms permit union reps a reasonable amount of time to engage in their duties as a rep... But is it really appropriate for them to be organsing rail and coach tickets for all and sundry using government email addresses? (I recognise that PCS and others are not government sites).

No wonder there are cuts when there is such time wasting going on.

Ok, now rant over.

Who's saying they are organising it during work time? I used to use my GSI email address all the time to organise things.

 

[313103]

Instead of keeping to the subject matter in hand, i see that the usual vitriol of anti union sentiments is being echoed yet again. The usual sarcastic comments and the over zealous use of Brothers (in case you haven't noticed we also have Sisters!), Accusations that the reps are getting paid for going on it etc. Now all i want to know is how this demonstration is directly inconveniencing you on this day? Perhaps one day you will be happy that someone has stood up for you.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Instead of keeping to the subject matter in hand, i see that the usual vitriol of anti union sentiments is being echoed yet again. The usual sarcastic comments and the over zealous use of Brothers (in case you haven't noticed we also have Sisters!), Accusations that the reps are getting paid for going on it etc. Now all i want to know is how this demonstration is directly inconveniencing you on this day? Perhaps one day you will be happy that someone has stood up for you.

Well said, about time somebody said it. I am unable to make the march as I am off to Poole Town vrs Whitley Bay in the FA Vase so will still be heading up the ECML. Not looking forward to standing all the way to The Cross, but such is life! Pity the march is the same day as the match but I'll certainly be there in spirit
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Honestly can't think of anything worse than getting on a train full of trots.

I'll go and do a hard days work for little pay, as I do everyday

what will you do when your 'little pay' job is taken from you though?

 

[CardiffKid]

what will you do when your 'little pay' job is taken from you though?

I don't work in the public sector, nor do I think the govt should be creating jobs (as has been in the past) of middle managers, quality checkers and basicily paper pushers.

But if I did lose my job I'll get on my bike (not literately you understand) and find another one, rather than prancing round London on a Saturday, chanting slogans that criticize the govt who are fwiw imo doing an alight job in bloody difficult times.

 

[313103]

I don't work in the public sector, nor do I think the govt should be creating jobs (as has been in the past) of middle managers, quality checkers and basicily paper pushers.

But if I did lose my job I'll get on my bike (not literately you understand) and find another one, rather than prancing round London on a Saturday, chanting slogans that criticize the govt who are fwiw imo doing an alight job in bloody difficult times.

You jog on and see if there is a job for you! You havent read any papers or watched any news have you? if you did you would know that unemployment is at its highest since 1993, but you dont want to know that because you sound as if your a im alright jack kind of person and yet you have only posted about a dozen times.

So pray how far will you travel on that imaginary bike of yours? Round the corner? up the road? a mile away, 10 miles away, 100 miles away? another country? Just how far will you travel?

So the government are doing an alright job in dificult circumstances. Hmm strange analogy, there we are in dificult times having to make dificult cuts to budgets, then low and behold we go and impose ourselves on another country! Not content with having a war in Iraq and Afganistan we now go into war with Libya and i thought the country was bankrupt.. Silly me for thinking that. What is rather strange is that we didnt go into Egypt strange that but then there is no oil there, we didnt go into Algeria either but then again there is no oil there either. I must be so cynical that we (A broken and bankrupt country) are going to war with Libya to help the people of that land. So much for dificult times that we are having wars on 3 fronts now.

 

[ainsworth74]

Not content with having a war in Iraq and Afganistan we now go into war with Libya and i thought the country was bankrupt.. Silly me for thinking that. What is rather strange is that we didnt go into Egypt strange that but then there is no oil there, we didnt go into Algeria either but then again there is no oil there either. I must be so cynical that we (A broken and bankrupt country) are going to war with Libya to help the people of that land. So much for dificult times that we are having wars on 3 fronts now.

We're no longer at war in Iraq we started to leave in 2007 and we were completely withdrawn by May 2009. Reason we didn't go into Egypt was that the protesters there weren't being bombed and massacred by their own government, indeed the Egyptian army behaved itself completely during the uprising. There was no need to intervene. Again in Algeria they're have been civilian deaths and injuries but not on the scale they've been in Libya. I'm not going to deny we've gone into Libya in part motivated by oil (I'm not that naive) but at the same time they're certainly some humanitarian motivations to the action. As for paying for it that's a question that keeps getting asked, is it coming out of the already stretched defence budget or is it coming from another source if so where? Still to be honest I would much rather not currently be engaged in action within Libya because we have literally no exit strategy (again) and a pretty poorly defined mission as to what were even doing anyway.

 

[merlodlliw]

A unite rep told me on Sunday extra coaches also booked on the 0653 from Holyhead to London
. picking up the train at Flint,all seats taken


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Instead of keeping to the subject matter in hand, i see that the usual vitriol of anti union sentiments is being echoed yet again. The usual sarcastic comments and the over zealous use of Brothers (in case you haven't noticed we also have Sisters!), Accusations that the reps are getting paid for going on it etc. Now all i want to know is how this demonstration is directly inconveniencing you on this day? Perhaps one day you will be happy that someone has stood up for you.

I don't see a problem with Unite paying for extra coaches to take its members to London from Flint & Chester , what's wrong with this, it is fact. trade unions also have FOCs & MOCs as well. I was a FOC.

Bob

 

[The Barlow Boy]

There's no point in any decent honest folk going because - as in all of these things - it'll all and up in tears having been hijacked by the anarchists and Socialist Workers - there's an oxymoron if ever there was one - who are attending to simply get in a ruck with the police so that they can accuse them of showing violence to-wards the poor downtrodden masses yawn.

 

[313103]

There's no point in any decent honest folk going because - as in all of these things - it'll all and up in tears having been hijacked by the anarchists and Socialist Workers - there's an oxymoron if ever there was one - who are attending to simply get in a ruck with the police so that they can accuse them of showing violence to-wards the poor downtrodden masses yawn.

Yadda, yadda, yadda yet again ! If you aint Got nothing decent to contribute, dont bother.

Glad you think you know me, 1 your calling me undecent and unhonest. 2 for me it wont end in tears i plan to have a good time. 3 Yes some anarchists and socialist workers will be there, but so will thousands of Old Bill. 4 If ever theres an oxymoron it stems from you. 5. Glad you also think i am going simply to get in a ruck with the police, will be bloody difficult if im holding a banner, but why let facts get in the way of a good Barlow story!

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Yadda, yadda, yadda yet again ! If you aint Got nothing decent to contribute, dont bother.

Glad you think you know me, 1 your calling me undecent and unhonest. 2 for me it wont end in tears i plan to have a good time. 3 Yes some anarchists and socialist workers will be there, but so will thousands of Old Bill. 4 If ever theres an oxymoron it stems from you. 5. Glad you also think i am going simply to get in a ruck with the police, will be bloody difficult if im holding a banner, but why let facts get in the way of a good Barlow story!

What in God's name are you on about?
When have I said that I know you?
How am I an oxymoron?
When did I suggest that you personally are going for a ruck with the police?
Methinks the lad protests too much............

 

[313103]

What in God's name are you on about?
When have I said that I know you?
How am I an oxymoron?
When did I suggest that you personally are going for a ruck with the police?
Methinks the lad protests too much............

Obviously my form of sarcasm was over your head!

One should never generalise about things, because as you very well know when people generalise about things a lot of people actually think that is definitely going to happen. So your generalisation that if your honest and decent you shouldnt go gives the impression that those that are going are all unhonest and undecent! You see in all honesty i am a decent and honest person Yet i am going on the demonstration! I dont aim to go for a ruck with the police as you generalised Yet i am going on the demonstration

With regards protesting i would like to say i havent done enough let alone to much, the last time i was on a picket line was in Silverlink (come back all is forgiven) days, the actual last time i went on a march was when the anti war march took place in 2004 or 5 not sure when now.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Obviously my form of sarcasm was over your head!

One should never generalise about things, because as you very well know when people generalise about things a lot of people actually think that is definitely going to happen. So your generalisation that if your honest and decent you shouldnt go gives the impression that those that are going are all unhonest and undecent! You see in all honesty i am a decent and honest person Yet i am going on the demonstration! I dont aim to go for a ruck with the police as you generalised Yet i am going on the demonstration

With regards protesting i would like to say i havent done enough let alone to much, the last time i was on a picket line was in Silverlink (come back all is forgiven) days, the actual last time i went on a march was when the anti war march took place in 2004 or 5 not sure when now.

Well I'm happy to hear you say that you're not going for a ruck with the police and that you're an honest decent upright citizen. I'd have been dissapointed for anybody on this forum to be anything less. Now, read my original post again, especially the bit about the march - like all marches that rail against the government of the day - being taken over by anarchists and the Socialist Worker's Part -, the latter dedicated in their determination that can only come from their (mostly) middle class well brought up backgrounds to cause trouble in a vicarous way.
The weather forecast for the day is excellent. Go, march, chant sing and above all have a good time but beware the rats in the shadows, not every friend is a sincere friend.

 

[passmore]

And not every person who claims to be going down to protest is going to protest peacefully.

As we've seen already with the tuition fees rally, there was a substantial minority of rioters who hijacked a rally which was largely peaceful and brought the media's attention wrongfully away from the message the protesters were trying to get across. Instead of listening to what they had to say, we had a number of bulletins after that demonstration showing nothing other than the Royals battered car for instance.

There will always be people who go to these protests simply to cause trouble and to hijack the media focus, why? Because bad news in the form of rucks with the police make stories.

 

[the sniper]

And not every person who claims to be going down to protest is going to protest peacefully.

Indeed. Some more extreme elements are billing this protest as the beginning of 'the revolution', with an invasion of Westminster talked about. Not sure if the wealthy ASLEF brothers are up for that though!

 

[yorkie]

I hope the anarchists are dealt with appropriately. They want to destroy our way of life, that's not right. I do think though that perhaps some island somewhere should be dedicated a place for anarchists, then just let them go over there and have no laws and no government and do what they want and leave them to it!

But seriously, you can guarantee anarchists will spoil it.

I am not necessarily in favour of certain 'cuts' but we can't continue to increase our debts, that's madness. At the end of the day certain countries in the world are living well above their means and consuming far more than their 'fair' share of resources and sadly we are among them. It's unsustainable. Instead of going on a march people should be changing their lifestyles to be more sustainable.

Protesting that we're not increasing our debt by as much as they'd like isn't really going to achieve much is it...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. Some more extreme elements are billing this protest as the beginning of 'the revolution', with an invasion of Westminster talked about. Not sure if the wealthy ASLEF brothers are up for that though!

They're lunatics, in their ideal world people would just go round doing what they want, no government, no laws, just people doing their own thing. Which would mean survival of the fittest, and gang warfare. If they really want that, I say they should be given that lifestyle, but not in this country...

 

[SS4]

But seriously, you can guarantee anarchists will spoil it.

I agree. Furthermore the media will jump on these anarchists as being representative of the cause which is exactly what they did for the tuition fees protest.

(as an aside I swear the BBC have got more anti-union since the general election)

OT: My poll card arrived today too, so I am registered to vote yes to AV

 

[scotsman]

Good luck to all on the protests, I'm fully behind you as long as your pole has a placard on it and not a nail through it!

 

[strange6]

Good luck to all on the protests, I'm fully behind you as long as your pole has a placard on it and not a nail through it!

I understand where people are coming from on this, but if you overspend for whatever reason, you have to cutback. If you don't, you're well on the way to ruin. Thanks Tony!
And besides, all of the protests held in London by the Stop the War Coalition didn't make one bit of difference to the war because they were ignored. Same will happen here, too! What's got to be done, will be done - protests or not! Tough egg, hard cheese.

 

[scotsman]

I understand where people are coming from on this, but if you overspend for whatever reason, you have to cutback. If you don't, you're well on the way to ruin. Thanks Tony!

My preferred solution was to defer the cuts (I'm not denying they had to be made) by continuing borrowing so we could keep people in work, keep up the NI and tax contributions, and keep people investing into the economy. That way, when we had to make the cuts, we would be in a much more economically sound position to make them.

 

[strange6]

My preferred solution was to defer the cuts (I'm not denying they had to be made) by continuing borrowing so we could keep people in work, keep up the NI and tax contributions, and keep people investing into the economy. That way, when we had to make the cuts, we would be in a much more economically sound position to make them.

it's a tricky one in which even the experts are split. Glad it's not my call

 

[HST Power]

I hope the anarchists are dealt with appropriately. They want to destroy our way of life, that's not right. I do think though that perhaps some island somewhere should be dedicated a place for anarchists, then just let them go over there and have no laws and no government and do what they want and leave them to it!

But seriously, you can guarantee anarchists will spoil it.

I am not necessarily in favour of certain 'cuts' but we can't continue to increase our debts, that's madness. At the end of the day certain countries in the world are living well above their means and consuming far more than their 'fair' share of resources and sadly we are among them. It's unsustainable. Instead of going on a march people should be changing their lifestyles to be more sustainable.

Protesting that we're not increasing our debt by as much as they'd like isn't really going to achieve much is it...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They're lunatics, in their ideal world people would just go round doing what they want, no government, no laws, just people doing their own thing. Which would mean survival of the fittest, and gang warfare. If they really want that, I say they should be given that lifestyle, but not in this country...

I couldn't agree with you more! Very well said Yorkie!

 

[Old Timer]

Having seen the developing news about the march abroad earlier, I see that the BBC is desperately trying to downplay the violence. :roll:

Every other news broadcaster is telling it like it is.

 

[Jonny]

Having seen the developing news about the march abroad earlier, I see that the BBC is desperately trying to downplay the violence. :roll:

Every other news broadcaster is telling it like it is.

Which is a pity since a lot of people rely on the BBC as their main news source.

OTOH though it could just be that they want more info before publishing.

 

[313103]

Having seen the developing news about the march abroad earlier, I see that the BBC is desperately trying to downplay the violence. :roll:

Every other news broadcaster is telling it like it is.

So once again a minor few spoil it for the majority!

I went on the march today along with up to 300,000 other likeminded souls, not all of them Guardian reading, labour voting, loony lefties. I saw plenty of children some so young they were being pushed in a buggy, i saw people from all walks of life as i said some very young but also some of our much elder citizens. I also saw that relations between the police and the marchers to be civil and at sometimes a joke or two was passed between each other.

But as is usual about 50 people go into a department store and around about another 500 caused trouble and guess what makes the headlines. Yep you've guessed it the tiny minority, who have once again caused our right wing press barons frothing over the thought that dramatic scenes at Fortnum & Mason would make more money then nearly 300,000 peaceful marchers walking and singing etc. In fact i spent most of my time on the march with the RMT brass band.

SO there you have it 500 trouble makers make all the headlines and 300,000 get a little section on page 7 column 3. But then i dont expect the press to portray a balanced view.

 

[Ferret]

I have to say I didn't see a problem with the BBC coverage. They showed the peaceful part of the protest, they showed the family men and women exercising their democratic rights, and then they showed the intellectually challenged members of society chanting 'tory scum' on what was supposed to be a peaceful march. For those complaining about rhe coverage given to the inevitable violent disorder - well, I'd expect that to be shown whether it was linked to a demo or whether it was linked to bored youths vandalising for the hell of it on an otherwise quiet day.

 

[HST Power]

So once again a minor few spoil it for the majority!

I went on the march today along with up to 300,000 other likeminded souls, not all of them Guardian reading, labour voting, loony lefties. I saw plenty of children some so young they were being pushed in a buggy, i saw people from all walks of life as i said some very young but also some of our much elder citizens. I also saw that relations between the police and the marchers to be civil and at sometimes a joke or two was passed between each other.

But as is usual about 50 people go into a department store and around about another 500 caused trouble and guess what makes the headlines. Yep you've guessed it the tiny minority, who have once again caused our right wing press barons frothing over the thought that dramatic scenes at Fortnum & Mason would make more money then nearly 300,000 peaceful marchers walking and singing etc. In fact i spent most of my time on the march with the RMT brass band.

SO there you have it 500 trouble makers make all the headlines and 300,000 get a little section on page 7 column 3. But then i dont expect the press to portray a balanced view.

I heard on the Andrew Marr show that Colonel Gadaffi is showing the Libyan people footage of the protestors and saying 'Look, they are protesting against the air strikes!'