Manchester Victoria

[Ken H]

I still think a programme of frequent cleaning and atmospheric LED lighting would sort it out. Though this is now much more difficult - there should have been some sandblasting/high pressure hose cleaning before the wires went up.

now you need electrical isolation and a possession.....

 

[Matt_pool]

Glad I'm not the only one to have noticed the fumes!

A couple of years ago I went to catch a train from Victoria to, I think, Stalybridge. The 150 I got on had been sat idle for a few minutes and the platform stank of diesel fumes. I got on the train which was already standing room only, and, because it was rather warm, all of the windows were open. Hence, all of the fumes were coming into the train.

By the time the train left a couple of minutes later I felt ill!

 

[Ianigsy]

I caught a few lungfuls of diesel the other week as well! Perhaps the increasingly intensive service (particularly the 185s) means that there's never really time for the fumes to disperse before the next DMU arrives.

Really needs some toilets and a coffee concession on the platform side of the barriers, I think (although to be fair, whenever I've been passing through with a ticket from Merseyside to West Yorkshire, it's always worked the barrier).

 

[Wtloild]

The fact it's run by Northern is I think a major factor.
If a station in the north isn't relatively grim, chances are it's run by TPE/Virgin/LNER.

Really needs some toilets and a coffee concession on the platform side of the barriers

This would be a good start.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact it's run by Northern is I think a major factor.
If a station in the north isn't relatively grim, chances are it's run by TPE/Virgin/LNER.

As it now has InterCity type services again I think it's time for Network Rail to take it over. It's arguably now of equal importance to Piccadilly.

It hadn't occurred to me that it was just following the pattern that everything Northern management touch turns to dog, er, faeces.

 

[superkev]

Glad I'm not the only one to have noticed the fumes!

A couple of years ago I went to catch a train from Victoria to, I think, Stalybridge. The 150 I got on had been sat idle for a few minutes and the platform stank of diesel fumes. I got on the train which was already standing room only, and, because it was rather warm, all of the windows were open. Hence, all of the fumes were coming into the train.

By the time the train left a couple of minutes later I felt ill!

Is anyone aware of any air quality monitoring of or any results of same. Truly unbearable and possibly a risk to health at times.
K

 

[Bantamzen]

As it now has InterCity type services again I think it's time for Network Rail to take it over. It's arguably now of equal importance to Piccadilly.

It hadn't occurred to me that it was just following the pattern that everything Northern management touch turns to dog, er, faeces.

I am a little confused, how could changing management help remove the fact that Victoria is buried under the Arena yet still served largely by DMUs? You may not like Northern, but they can hardly be blamed for decisions made way before they even existed. Sure you could add some nice up lighting, and reveal just how much exhaust fumes there are. I'm sure it would look lovely....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As it now has InterCity type services again I think it's time for Network Rail to take it over. It's arguably now of equal importance to Piccadilly.

In what respect do you see its "equal importance to Piccadilly"? I think your aspiration of a Network Rail management takeover needs to look at any of the other stations that Network Rail manage in terms of annual passenger footfall and if a table of such statistics could be compiled, where do you think that Manchester Victoria would appear?

Surely Glasgow Queen Street is more worthy of Network Rail mangement status.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I've been using Victoria three days per week since January (arriving ~0905, departing ~1756) and to make some random observations:
- I hadn't really thought of it as inadequate in that time, so maybe that's a typical view for a casual user? But now the problems are pointed out, I think I agree in general.
- the ticket line more or less works: I haven't noticed any particular problem with crowds waiting to use it or with gate failures. Some more visible signing of which gates went which way would be good.
- the stairs are better than they were now that the signing for which side to use is consistent, but still very crowded when morning peak trains arrive simultaneously on platforms 4 and 5

On balance, the place is performing more or less adequately. It would benefit from the various suggested improvements, but it doesn't need them just yet to carry on operating safely.

 

[furnessvale]

I am a little confused, how could changing management help remove the fact that Victoria is buried under the Arena yet still served largely by DMUs? You may not like Northern, but they can hardly be blamed for decisions made way before they even existed. Sure you could add some nice up lighting, and reveal just how much exhaust fumes there are. I'm sure it would look lovely....

How about stopping diesel engines when in the station for more than a few minutes.

I do that when in my car if I can see the jam is going to last. Saves fuel as well.

 

[DarloRich]

I quite like Victoria now. Much better than it was previously. The platforms under the arena are not fantastic but are no worse than any other semi submerged station in the UK.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am a little confused, how could changing management help remove the fact that Victoria is buried under the Arena yet still served largely by DMUs? You may not like Northern, but they can hardly be blamed for decisions made way before they even existed. Sure you could add some nice up lighting, and reveal just how much exhaust fumes there are. I'm sure it would look lovely....

Changing management may mean it is properly cleaned and maintained. It is certainly noticeable that Network Rail managed stations seem to be alongside VTWC ones as being generally kept in a very clean condition and maintained properly, with Merseyrail and Northern probably being worst in my observation.

 

[Bantamzen]

How about stopping diesel engines when in the station for more than a few minutes.

I do that when in my car if I can see the jam is going to last. Saves fuel as well.

Well that would possibly be an solution, although I'll confess I don't know the practicalities of that. I do know from experience going through Leeds that DMUs starting up for the first time in the day have to be left at high revs for a while, would this be the case if a unit were switched off for 10 or 15 minutes for example? However this only resolves the issue for the terminators at Vic, most run through & rarely spend more than a few minutes under the roof.

Changing management may mean it is properly cleaned and maintained. It is certainly noticeable that Network Rail managed stations seem to be alongside VTWC ones as being generally kept in a very clean condition and maintained properly, with Merseyrail and Northern probably being worst in my observation.

Really? Are you sure? I'd suggest not looking up when you are next at Leeds....

 

[Bletchleyite]

On balance, the place is performing more or less adequately. It would benefit from the various suggested improvements, but it doesn't need them just yet to carry on operating safely.

I would agree that (unlike Picc P13/14) there is nothing unsafe about it. However, it just isn't a nice environment in my view. It's been designed only with efficient passenger movement and revenue protection in mind (not poor aims as such, indeed very good ones) - but the "is it a nice place to be" part has in my view been very much neglected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? Are you sure? I'd suggest not looking up when you are next at Leeds....

OK, "as clean as you get in the UK" - it was I suppose me that reported the accumulated filth on the netting upstairs at Piccadilly to Environmental Health (because it looked to me like it would drop into food in the food establishments up there).

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what respect do you see its "equal importance to Piccadilly"? I think your aspiration of a Network Rail management takeover needs to look at any of the other stations that Network Rail manage in terms of annual passenger footfall and if a table of such statistics could be compiled, where do you think that Manchester Victoria would appear?

I just checked and it was surprisingly much lower than I thought.

Surely Glasgow Queen Street is more worthy of Network Rail mangement status.

Possibly so, though one could argue that all Scottish stations may as well be maintained by ScotRail - and to be fair ScotRail are one of the best TOCs at that - the high quality of maintenance and condition of even the most tiny rural Scottish station is most notable as exactly how it all should be.

 

[fowler9]

Changing management may mean it is properly cleaned and maintained. It is certainly noticeable that Network Rail managed stations seem to be alongside VTWC ones as being generally kept in a very clean condition and maintained properly, with Merseyrail and Northern probably being worst in my observation.

Liverpool South Parkway is very well looked after by Merseytravel but the toilet provision is totally inadequate for a station of its size.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Liverpool South Parkway is very well looked after by Merseytravel

I don't agree. It has a somewhat scruffy edge that typifies Merseyrail.

but the toilet provision is totally inadequate for a station of its size.

Completely agreed.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Is anyone aware of any air quality monitoring of or any results of same. Truly unbearable and possibly a risk to health at times.
K

A number of people (including me) have been asking Northern for about three years to do air quality monitoring, and their initial position was that it wasn’t their responsibility and we needed to talk to Network Rail. When they quite rightly said Northern are the station operator they tried to stall but eventually said they’d do something. They refuse to share the results. The only time anyone was seen doing any monitoring, they were at the open, barrier side of the footbridge, rather than on the platform in the smog.

And on the subject of Victoria, nothing sums up the ineptitude of Northern quite like the relabelling of the stairs. Some are keep right, some are keep left. Nothing is consistent. And the signs for the lifts up on the bridge (I can’t remember the exact phrasing) look like they’ve been written by someone with only a fleeting acquaintance with the English language

 

[fowler9]

I don't agree. It has a somewhat scruffy edge that typifies Merseyrail.



Completely agreed.

In what way does it have a scruffy edge? I couldn't sit on my favourite bench at at the East end of Platform 2 today because someone was giving it the toothbrush treatment like it was the marine corps toilets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what way does it have a scruffy edge? I couldn't sit on my favourite bench at at the East end of Platform 2 today because someone was giving it the toothbrush treatment like it was the marine corps toilets.

The Mtogo was the most obvious thing (these are a disaster - really bad at the two roles they try to fulfil) - poorly stocked and haphazardly arranged both in front of and behind the counter. Stuff not working e.g. lights. Faded paintwork. Etc. Not the worst by any means, but not well looked-after.

 

[Andyh82]

A number of people (including me) have been asking Northern for about three years to do air quality monitoring, and their initial position was that it wasn’t their responsibility and we needed to talk to Network Rail. When they quite rightly said Northern are the station operator they tried to stall but eventually said they’d do something. They refuse to share the results. The only time anyone was seen doing any monitoring, they were at the open, barrier side of the footbridge, rather than on the platform in the smog.

What would be the outcome though if it was proven there was poor quality air?

Can we have more electrification? - outside Northern’s control therefore No

Can we move the arena and have a new station - answer No

 

[Ken H]

What would be the outcome though if it was proven there was poor quality air?

Can we have more electrification? - outside Northern’s control therefore No

Can we move the arena and have a new station - answer No

are there extractor fans like new St has? standard kit in road tunnels.

 

[Bantamzen]

are there extractor fans like new St has? standard kit in road tunnels.

I don't know if there are any at Victoria (can anyone confirm?), but if not an installation would likely require some considerable work & a shutting of the lines through Victoria until it could be fitted. This would require NR & TOC agreement I would imagine, so not an easy retro-fit.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can we move the arena and have a new station - answer No

Can the arena and the Manchester Metrolink part of the railway station stay where they are situated and a new heavy-rail station to the west of the existing building on existing railway land area be built?

 

[DarloRich]

A number of people (including me) have been asking Northern for about three years to do air quality monitoring, and their initial position was that it wasn’t their responsibility and we needed to talk to Network Rail. When they quite rightly said Northern are the station operator they tried to stall but eventually said they’d do something. They refuse to share the results. The only time anyone was seen doing any monitoring, they were at the open, barrier side of the footbridge, rather than on the platform in the smog.

this again? The people who need monitoring are the platform staff. They are exposed to any exhaust for long periods of time. Passengers are not. They will be on the platforms for a short period before either boarding their train or leaving the station.

Personally I don't think there is much risk to a regular passenger. I also think the risk to staff is low.

What would be the outcome though if it was proven there was poor quality air?

it would let people get all twisty and complain. Practically all your can do is install some fans until every train is made electric.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can the arena and the Manchester Metrolink part of the railway station stay where they are situated and a new heavy-rail station to the west of the existing building on existing railway land area be built?

That would be a long walk to the tram. But if the Arena won't go away, a new build is probably the only option, and that is the only spare land.

 

[Eccles1983]

Can the arena and the Manchester Metrolink part of the railway station stay where they are situated and a new heavy-rail station to the west of the existing building on existing railway land area be built?

Short answer - no. The costs would be astronomical, require bridges to be ripped up, junctions moved and pushed closer towards ordsall lane which isn't going to happen.

There is extractor fans, but they are controlled by the arena and are very temperamental.

Air monitoring has taken place, it's a horrible place to work, mainly caused by TPE's refusal to turn off engines. H&S reps are banging heads against walls trying to get it sorted. The risk is not low, the particulate count is going to be very high and I would expect in years to come claims going in for it.

Short of closing the station completely or introducing all electric services it's not going to change.

 

[Altfish]

Can the arena and the Manchester Metrolink part of the railway station stay where they are situated and a new heavy-rail station to the west of the existing building on existing railway land area be built?

We could name it Manchester Exchange !
Actually, I think most of the land has now been built on.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We could name it Manchester Exchange !
Actually, I think most of the land has now been built on.

I was referring to the railway land currently used and also that no longer used by the existing trackwork that is between the approaches to the former 12-16 platforms, not the land area once occupied by the former Manchester Exchange railway station.