Manchester Victoria to Halewood

[AM1]

Hello All

After my sister has ended up in some hot water with Northern - albeit her own fault through being naive it's prompted me to review my own ticketing policies.

I sometimes travel from Patricroft (on the Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street line) to Halewood which i understand allows a change at Lime Street. After discussions with a few guards I believe there isn't a ticket which offers a return journey the day after which is frustrating as i'd like to return the day after sometimes.

On a weekend i sometimes have need to travel from Manchester Victoria to Halewood - now i know this might sound lazy not wanting to walk from Oxford Road however in the rain it's a long walk and inconvenient to say the least. The National Rail journey planner suggests getting a train to Salford Crescent then on to either Deansgate or Oxford Road but this seems daft when going straight to Lime Street then back on the Warrington Central service which times perfectly would surely make more sense?

Does anyone have any advice on how I can:

1) Travel between MCV and HED through LIV on a day return legitimately?
2) Travel between PAT and HED through LIV on a ticket returning the day after for a reasonable price and legitimately?

I have a valid season ticket between Manchester CTRLZ and PAT at all times if this helps.

Sorry if the answer if obvious and I can do the above easily using a Manchester Stations to HED however i'm now paranoid about ticket validity after reading some threads on here!

Thanks in advance

 

[soil]

2) There is a PAT-HED off-peak return for £14.30, which is only £2.70 more than the off-peak day return, and it's valid slightly earlier - 8:30 instead of 9:30.

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=PAT&dest=HED&rlc=

I believe it is Manchester CTLZ btw.

Patricroft has RPs:

Bolton
Earlestown
Manchester Group
Wigan Group

Halewood has RPs:
Hunts Cross Group
Warringto Group

A Patricroft - Halewood ticket is valid, after fares check:

Patricroft - Earlestown - Warrington Bank Quay
Warrington Central - Haleswood
(mapped route
Earlestown - Hunts Cross Group)

Patricroft - Manchester Oxford Road
Manchester Oxford Road - Halewood (via Warrington Central)
(mapped route Manchester - Hunts Cross)

Patricroft - Oxford Road - Wigan North Western - Warrington Bank Quay
Warrington Central - Halewood
(mapped route Wigan - Hunts Cross)

Patricroft - Oxford Road - Wigan North Western - Huyton - Liverpool - Halewood
(mapped route Wigan - Hunts Cross)

as above, but to Wigan via Oxford Road and Bolton (this one is slightly dubious)

Your route:

Patricroft - Liverpool Lime Street
Liverpool Lime Street - Halewood

will pass through Edge Hill, which is 1 3/4 miles from Lime Street.

Edge Hill has trains to both Patricroft and Halewood, so you are doubling back between Edge Hill and Lime Street. 1 3/4 miles twice is 3 1/2 miles, so this route cannot possibly be permitted under the shortest route rule.

The route

Patricroft - Edge Hill 25
Edge Hill - Halewood 6 1/2

is 31 1/2 miles

The only other plausible shortest route is
Patricroft - Oxford Road 5 1/4 miles
Oxford Road - Halewood 26 1/4 miles

So likewise 31 1/2 miles

So a Patricroft - Halewood ticket is valid under the shortest route rule

Patricroft - Oxford Road
Oxford Road - Halewood

and
Patricroft - Edge Hill
Edge Hill - Halewood

It is NOT valid via Lime Street.

 

[AM1]

2) There is a PAT-HED off-peak return for £14.30, which is only £2.70 more than the off-peak day return, and it's valid slightly earlier - 8:30 instead of 9:30.

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=PAT&dest=HED&rlc=

I believe it is Manchester CTLZ btw.

Patricroft has RPs:

Bolton
Earlestown
Manchester Group
Wigan Group

Halewood has RPs:
Hunts Cross Group
Warringto Group

A Patricroft - Halewood ticket is valid, after fares check:

Patricroft - Earlestown - Warrington Bank Quay
Warrington Central - Haleswood
(mapped route
Earlestown - Hunts Cross Group)

Patricroft - Manchester Oxford Road
Manchester Oxford Road - Halewood (via Warrington Central)
(mapped route Manchester - Hunts Cross)

Patricroft - Oxford Road - Wigan North Western - Warrington Bank Quay
Warrington Central - Halewood
(mapped route Wigan - Hunts Cross)

Patricroft - Oxford Road - Wigan North Western - Huyton - Liverpool - Halewood
(mapped route Wigan - Hunts Cross)

as above, but to Wigan via Oxford Road and Bolton (this one is slightly dubious)

Your route:

Patricroft - Liverpool Lime Street
Liverpool Lime Street - Halewood

will pass through Edge Hill, which is 1 3/4 miles from Lime Street.

Edge Hill has trains to both Patricroft and Halewood, so you are doubling back between Edge Hill and Lime Street. 1 3/4 miles twice is 3 1/2 miles, so this route cannot possibly be permitted under the shortest route rule.

The route

Patricroft - Edge Hill 25
Edge Hill - Halewood 6 1/2

is 31 1/2 miles

The only other plausible shortest route is
Patricroft - Oxford Road 5 1/4 miles
Oxford Road - Halewood 26 1/4 miles

So likewise 31 1/2 miles

So a Patricroft - Halewood ticket is valid under the shortest route rule

Patricroft - Oxford Road
Oxford Road - Halewood

and
Patricroft - Edge Hill
Edge Hill - Halewood

It is NOT valid via Lime Street.

Hi, thanks for the detailed response.

Would I be correct in assuming then that I can board at MCV, utilise my season ticket to Patricroft and purchase a Patricroft to Halewood ticket (before travel), change at Edge Hill and this be valid?

 

[soil]

With regards to a Manchester Stations - Halewood ticket, as noted above the only mapped route is via Warrington Central on the direct train.

Specifically starting from Victoria, and therefore considering the ticket as

Manchester Victoria - Halewood

the shortest route is:

Manchester Victoria - Salford Crescent 1 3/4
Salford Crescent - Deansgate 1 1/2
Deansgate - Halewood 25 3/4

29 miles

Manchester Victoria - Edge Hill 30 miles
Edge Hill - Halewood 6 1/2 miles

36 1/2 miles

is therefore far too long to be permitted.


Manchester Victoria - Halewood, again you cannot go via Lime Street, because it is 3.5 miles Edge Hill - Liverpoool - Edge Hill.

The mapped routes for a Manchester - Hale
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi, thanks for the detailed response.

Would I be correct in assuming then that I can board at MCV, utilise my season ticket to Patricroft and purchase a Patricroft to Halewood ticket (before travel), change at Edge Hill and this be valid?

Yes changing at Edge Hill (I believe both trains call here, so it's only an inconvenience in terms of finding a seat, standing in the cold for longer, etc.), is permissible while holding a MCZ - PAT season and PAT - HED single/return.

 

[AM1]

With regards to a Manchester Stations - Halewood ticket, as noted above the only mapped route is via Warrington Central on the direct train.

Specifically starting from Victoria, and therefore considering the ticket as

Manchester Victoria - Halewood

the shortest route is:

Manchester Victoria - Salford Crescent 1 3/4
Salford Crescent - Deansgate 1 1/2
Deansgate - Halewood 25 3/4

29 miles

Manchester Victoria - Edge Hill 30 miles
Edge Hill - Halewood 6 1/2 miles

36 1/2 miles

is therefore far too long to be permitted.


Manchester Victoria - Halewood, again you cannot go via Lime Street, because it is 3.5 miles Edge Hill - Liverpoool - Edge Hill.

The mapped routes for a Manchester - Hale
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes changing at Edge Hill (I believe both trains call here, so it's only an inconvenience in terms of finding a seat, standing in the cold for longer, etc.), is permissible while holding a MCZ - PAT season and PAT - HED single/return.

Thanks for the clarification and putting my mind at rest, it's no bother to change at Edge Hill there are sheltered areas and the local services are rarely too full at the times i'll be travelling.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Not sure if it strictly applies here (being as the wording is not great), but there is an easement for 'travel via Liverpool South Parkway' which allows 'double back via Liverpool Lime Street'. I believe it is on the basis of this that a Patricroft-Halewood ticket is shown on journey planners and by FasTis as valid by train from Patricroft to Lime Street and then to Halewood.