-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Manchester Victoria modernisation
- Thread starter strange6
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
MidnightFlyer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 16 May 2010
- Messages
- 12,856
Surely they could fix the current roof for about half of that and spend the other £10,000,000 on improving the station further!
strange6
Established Member
I quite like it the way it is! It has a certain rustic charm about it!
MidnightFlyer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 16 May 2010
- Messages
- 12,856
Indeed, I do too (much better than Piccadilly!), but the roof does need a bit of TLC, as do the toilets etc. The roof in the pub/Pumpkins is beautiful though! Could do with a new booking office near the gateline/bays too.
trickyvegas
Member
- Joined
- 10 Dec 2009
- Messages
- 362
They'd have to keep the current one as its a thing of beauty, but a second office to take the peak strain is good idea, perhaps utilising the empty space where the disused metrolink plaform is.
Ivo
Established Member
If the roof is replaced/fixed, wouldn't the former Metrolink station then be in line for a reopening?
WestCoast
Established Member
Yes, but I wouldn't exactly call the dilapidated toilets (and the dodgy beggars and vagrants hanging around them) "rustic". The leaking roof may be "rustic", but it needs sorting out ASAP.
In it's current state Manchester Victoria is in a shocking condition, a terrible excuse for a railway station serving a city trying to project a modern and "regenerated" image.
With full restoration and extensive refurbishment of the existing roof and addition of appropriate station facilities, Victoria would be much improved.
However in it's current condition, I would much rather use Piccadilly, which I also think has a lovely classic main hall and great modern facilities. Definitely worthy of InterCity status. A lot of people I know have commented on Piccadilly being a nice station (it's got great facilities and a "safe" atmosphere). If it wasn't for platforms 13-14, which let the place down a little, it would be a top station.
Victoria is unpleasant to use, particularly at night. The newer platform areas (platforms 3-6) are also dingy and dark and not nice to use - the far platform 6 is practically pitch black all day!
Last edited:
trickyvegas
Member
- Joined
- 10 Dec 2009
- Messages
- 362
I not sure they really need it, the current Island platform seems to the job well enough.
My thoughts entirely. The money saved could be used restoring and providing shops and passenger facilities in the main building - which does seem rather underused for the most part.
Nym
Established Member
Can't they fix the current roof and move the metrolink platforms further south so that we can have more NR bay platforms on the station, especially for when stuff will need to be diverted away from Piccadilly.
If the're going to do anything with Victoria, we need to get it operationally right aswell, no point in having a nice new roof on a station without proper platforming, enough platforms or anything else that is needed.
If the're going to do anything with Victoria, we need to get it operationally right aswell, no point in having a nice new roof on a station without proper platforming, enough platforms or anything else that is needed.
strange6
Established Member
All the qualities that make it attractive to me!
I read on another forum that when the MEN was built, they laid out the car park (on the level of the station) in such a way that they could reinstate an extra two through platforms if the need ever arose. Does anyone know if this is true at all ?
WestCoast
Established Member
Are we including the toilets in this?
Isn't there a 'someone' that tries pickpocket and nick bags? 
hock:strange6
Established Member
Are we including the toilets in this?
I must admit, I don't like the toilets very much. But the hot dog stand is a highlight for me
umontu
Member
I avoid Victoria every time!
The far platforms are always dark, the stairs are annoying compared to the moving walkways at Pic (Try running with a heavy bag.) and the fact that it obviously was far more gradious in the past hits me in the face every time I go near!
Having said all that, this line between vic-pic, is this for real or a dream, we have the metrolink, surely there is little need, what's 90p to a passenger compared to the cost this line would inflate fares by?
The far platforms are always dark, the stairs are annoying compared to the moving walkways at Pic (Try running with a heavy bag.) and the fact that it obviously was far more gradious in the past hits me in the face every time I go near!
Having said all that, this line between vic-pic, is this for real or a dream, we have the metrolink, surely there is little need, what's 90p to a passenger compared to the cost this line would inflate fares by?
WatcherZero
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,272
The basic thinking is besides increasing capacity through more paths that you wouldnt have to get off to transfer from Vic-Pic, you could stay on the train for a couple more stations and make your connection directly.
Invincibles
Member
I think the curve at Castlefield is a good idea, as would be the reinstatement of the curve at Ardwick to allow trains into the east of Piccadilly. If there was room for more through trains then even better.
More East facing bays would be good, as I would like to see the Hadfield and Rose Hill Marple trains moved there to free capacity at Piccadilly for HS etc.
In terms of what is realistic the station has a lot of potential with very many beautiful original parts. This announcement is very welcome.
If the railway could have a tower block built in the south east corner of the land then there is real potential to raise money for the improvements discussed already on this thread. I think that would be particularly good as the economy picks up.
It is pretty certain that not all the land will be needed for rail use again, particularly not that corner which was presumably just engine sidings etc when all the bays were in place?
More East facing bays would be good, as I would like to see the Hadfield and Rose Hill Marple trains moved there to free capacity at Piccadilly for HS etc.
In terms of what is realistic the station has a lot of potential with very many beautiful original parts. This announcement is very welcome.
If the railway could have a tower block built in the south east corner of the land then there is real potential to raise money for the improvements discussed already on this thread. I think that would be particularly good as the economy picks up.
It is pretty certain that not all the land will be needed for rail use again, particularly not that corner which was presumably just engine sidings etc when all the bays were in place?
If they build the chord, it will spell the end for the steam railway (replica 'Planet' and now a Pug as well) at MoSI. We even had Tornado in there last year!
The chord will cut off the end of our railway and make it impossible to use the current 'Y' shaped route. The remaing stub will be too short for practical use. And of course no more main line loco visits as the connection to Network Rail will be lost as well.
The chord will cut off the end of our railway and make it impossible to use the current 'Y' shaped route. The remaing stub will be too short for practical use. And of course no more main line loco visits as the connection to Network Rail will be lost as well.
Nym
Established Member
The could move the coard further up by adding an element of grade seperation from day 1. But thats too much forethrough for the goverment.
The only grade sep that would fit, and would be the cheapest, would be to take the exchange - chat moss lines up on a viaduct, on the un-used side of the current one, pass them over the line from Castlefeild Jcn then knit this in to the Chat Moss line. Add a cord from Castlefeild heading west onto the Chat Moss heading west so that it can avoid Ordstall Lane Junction, then the new coard from Catlefeild - Exchange would run slightly tighter round the corner, and potentially, over the route before looping back over di-used ground further round. Although that is silly, loop round and have the chat moss flying over the whole damn lot. I've given up on trying to draw a diagram of this, will see what google maps can do me.
OK, Google maps is quite handy
I've shared a map with you called Chat Moss - Exchange Grade Seperation:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=208537899835423960920.0004a1931e7e9815f31fc
The only grade sep that would fit, and would be the cheapest, would be to take the exchange - chat moss lines up on a viaduct, on the un-used side of the current one, pass them over the line from Castlefeild Jcn then knit this in to the Chat Moss line. Add a cord from Castlefeild heading west onto the Chat Moss heading west so that it can avoid Ordstall Lane Junction, then the new coard from Catlefeild - Exchange would run slightly tighter round the corner, and potentially, over the route before looping back over di-used ground further round. Although that is silly, loop round and have the chat moss flying over the whole damn lot. I've given up on trying to draw a diagram of this, will see what google maps can do me.
OK, Google maps is quite handy
I've shared a map with you called Chat Moss - Exchange Grade Seperation:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=208537899835423960920.0004a1931e7e9815f31fc
Last edited:
WatcherZero
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,272
There is some grade seperation, the chord from Pic passes over the lines from Vic-Chat Moss then enters Salford Central/Vic in the centre between the Salford/Bolton lines and the Eccles/Chat moss lines, meanwhile the Pic-Chat Moss lines are on the south and dont have to cross any other paths.
Nym
Established Member
Is that whats actually going to be happening though? Source?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
When you refer to "getting it right operationally", can I refer you to your comment in your first paragraph about having more NR bay platforms in the place of the existing Metrolink platforms, which you wish to move.
In the plans for the Ordsall Chord, the need for extra bay platforms at Manchester Victoria is stated to be WEST facing....your suggestions are for EAST facing bays. The station already has two EAST facing bay platforms, numbers 1 and 2 that currently take services to Leeds and to Selby. In the plans for the Ordsall Chord, there will be through running from Manchester Victoria via Leeds, to both Newcastle and Middlesbrough, so I cannot see any need for extra EAST facing bay platforms as going east from Manchester Victoria, the only two main hard rail routes are the Calder Valley line (ex L & Y) through Rochdale to Bradford and Leeds and the current route via the junction at Miles Platting, via Stalybridge to Huddersfield (ex L & N.W). I know that there is a route via Ashburys and Marple to Yorkshire, but this is only a diversionary route, not one that would attract passengers from Victoria, the route already being served from Piccadilly
You seem to forget that Manchester Victoria, under the Ordsall Chord proposals, is viewed as part of a modern 21st century transport complex.
Why should it not have a modern roof to allow as much light as possible into the station area. The station was allowed to gradually become more and more distressed and the only change of note was the building of the MEN arena complex that covers the platforms 3 to 6. I note that some contributors say this makes the platforms dark, but have you ever been to Birmingham New Street?
Manchester deserves two high quality modern stations. I agree that Victoria needs updated station shopping facilities but these could easily be provided by a mezzanine floor and also by use of the land between the station complex and Corporation Street to make a complete train complex.
If you want a nice Victorian heritage station, then by all means do what you can to keep Liverpool Road going or see what you can do for Mayfield station, provided it is not wanted for HS2. You could even organise a campaign to have the Royal Mail sorting office on Oldham Road demolished and Oldham Road station sympathetically rebuilt together with a nice new stone and brick viaduct rebuilt to replace the one demolished on New Allen Street, complete with horses and stables.
Manchester Victoria is there to provide a method of passenger transportation by rail fit for purpose that people from all areas will see as a modern transport complex containing both hard rail and Metrolink facilities. No-one would ever suggest that Manchester Airport should keep its wartime facilities and run bi-plane services, so let us keep a modern sense of realism in this argument, please!!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well said, Watchezero!! I am glad to see someone local to the North West area knows what they are talking about!
lancastrian
Member
I agree West facing bays will be needed at Victoria, and supprisingly the space for them already exists. It used to be called Manchester Exchange. If the space here was used well, you could include at least 3/4 decent length bay platforms. If they were electrified then the Manchester - Liverpool services could terminate there. Especially as the current Government is far to short sighted to electrify through Victoria on to both Rochdale and Stalybridge. Also if common sense prevailed, then the old Arwick line would be reopened and electrified, along with the link between it and Ashburys, this would give so many alternate options if there was any problems with the routes through Piccadilly or Victoria. And if they are electrifing the whole of Victoria, then the east facing bays (platforms 1/2) as well. The selling of the land for the MEN Arena, for quick money will certainly come back to haunt those wishing to increase the capacity at Victoria, as is it now so restricted. What was 6 platforms plus 3 through lines, are now restricted to 4 lines in total, each against a platform. Yet again another example of such shorted sightedness about our railway system, in which it was cut back far to much and now the cost of either reinstating or replacing the lost inferstructure is astronomical.
To be honest I'd like them to build either another east facing bay in on the Arena side of Vic so services coming from Rochdale and beyond dont have to cross-over to reach platforms 1 and 2 like they do now or have those services extended. West sided bays are a must as well but are they on the right side for services that terminate there (sorry I only ever work through the east side of the station, if I go beyond that I've gone too far, even the mess room is foreign territory)
You could even have a long platform linking your proposed new bays with the existing Victoria station!
Now there's a thought.
lancastrian
Member
You could even have a long platform linking your proposed new bays with the existing Victoria station!
Now there's a thought.
Brilliant idea. I am supprised no one else has ever thought about that. :roll:
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,257
The NR press release has a second picture, as well as that one used by the BBC. Not sure if it makes any more sense though:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...VICTORIA-STATION-172a/SearchCategoryID-2.aspx
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...VICTORIA-STATION-172a/SearchCategoryID-2.aspx
With a long travelator along the back of Platform 6 to the proposed P7 and 8. Hmmmmmmm
lancastrian
Member
With a long travelator along the back of Platform 6 to the proposed P7 and 8. Hmmmmmmm
Or even a dedicated entrance and booking office, which could be accessed directly via Cathedral Approach.
- Status