Manchester Victoria - Blackpool North

[alex57601]

FGW have made them work in Devon, although the north is taking them back and our services WILL be severely over-crowded!

Thought you lot didn't want the 142s in the first place?

Bit hypocritical if you ask me. :???:

 

[devon_metro]

No we didn't but FGW have made them work. The refurbished ones arent in a bad state, unlike the scabby Northern ones still running around. FGW is set to loose 24 carriages in the near future. Might be fun...

 

[1D53]

We've had no choice but to make them work bearing in mind we have 90 Pacer units...

 

[First class]

When are Northern expecting to get rid of them?

The DfT said they would last until the end of the franchise, but Northern say they were getting replacements sooner...

 

[1D53]

Believe it was sometime between 2012-2014.

 

[First class]

Well the franchise ends in 2013, so probably won't see anything new after all.

I'm guessing class 172s will probably be the preferred replacement...

 

[Kneedown]

You've not seen 142s on any Buxton - Blackpools because they're barred from Buxton.

Like i said earlier, we mince units, but i've passed enough 142's at Hazel Grove in my time, and been stuck behind them as well. Whether they go on to Buxton or not is purely acedemic, the route under discussion, and where the 180's will be operating is Man Vic - Blackpool, and my grudge is that it appears to be a new service for Northern, nothing at all wrong with that, but that the D(a)ft has permitted them to aquire five coach, 125mph capable intercity units, when they are in demand elsewhere for duties that are far more suitable for their capabilites.
I'm not just having a go at Northern here, I believe Vermin have just got two to replace an electric loco and stock between Birmingham and London! That makes a great deal of sense doesn't it? But as we all know, being a true high profile Labour Luvvie, what Richard Branson wants, Richard Branson gets!

My gripe is the complete waste of resources here. Replacing an electric and stock on a 100% electric route with two diesel sets, and also allowing a TOC to start a new, not even long distance, service, with identical sets when TOC's like EMT are sending two car 158's dangerously overcrowded on six hour long journey express routes.

 

[1D53]

Virgin aren't taking any. The reason Northern get the units is that they've made a good business case for them, and they accepted the limitation on how long then could be leased for. Clearly East Midlands weren't that bothered, especially bearing in mind they haven't been linked with the 180's at all!

 

[LilLoaf]

Hang on a minute, don't knock the class 142's they are fun little units "comedy clappers" i call them, suppose it is a matter of time before they get replaced but i don't think it'll be soon. In reply to the northern a looker for replacements for them soon they already have, 158 !!!. Yeah there are not enough of them but at least northern have had a go at replacing them.

when did 142's get banned from Buxton, i seen one there a bit ago, quite a bit ago actually in the glory days on FNW.

As for 180's on Blackpool, i think of better stock for it, wonder if they open the buffet car, i doubt it.

 

[Kneedown]

Virgin aren't taking any. The reason Northern get the units is that they've made a good business case for them, and they accepted the limitation on how long then could be leased for. Clearly East Midlands weren't that bothered, especially bearing in mind they haven't been linked with the 180's at all!

All the rumours about "such and such" being linked with the 180's are just that. rumours. No hard facts.
This is from a top level manager at EMT...
"EMT did go for some. The only reason they held off was due to concerns about cost, and capacity at Etches park, pinning their hopes instead on getting the 222's from HT (and they would be for the Corby's!)" No mention of how they are going to maintain 4 extra 222's if Etches doesn't have the capacity, nor of how they can afford to run them if they can't afford 180's, which cost about the same to lease and run.
What they want long term for Liverpool - Norwich is a new build of units, which they may, or may not get, a four car version of the class 172 is envisiged, another totally unsuitable design for a long distance express route!
What this new build will cost if, IF, authorised is anybody's guess, and will not be available for delivery until 2010 at the earliest.

A better solution would be to have gone for 180's when available, rather than wait for new build of unsuitable design.
If the D(a)ft was doing it's job properly it would have realised this too and told EMT to pull their finger out.

Sort out the trains that are already running, and have been waiting years for improvement, instead of lavishing stock on new routes.

 

[1D53]

Well looking at the diagrams it seems that Neville Hill will be doing a lot less work on the HST's. With more going to Etches nightly than currently. Presumably this could be reversed to allow more 180/222 onto Etches. Crofton could also be an option bearing in mind they already look after 170/180/220/221/222 already.

 

[dunks]

It seems both Victoria & Piccadilly will see class 180 diagrams - The Piccadilly ones form the Hazel Grove - Preston service & The Victoria ones the new Blackpool service.

These are the times (pinched from another forum!) for the Hazel Grove - Preston diagrams:

06:53 Blackpool North to Hazel Grove (arrive 08:45)
09:33 Hazel Grove to Preston (arrive 10:50)
ECS to Blackpool
ECS back to Preston around 14:00
14:23 Preston to Hazel Grove (15:45)
16:33 Hazel Grove to Preston (arrive 17:50)

Manchester Victoria - Blackpool North diagrams:

Seems to be 0718, 1120, 1520, 1920 from Blackpool. And 0922, 1322. 1720, 2122 off Manchester Victoria.

 

[Lucky63]

The new Blackpool North to Manchester Victoria route is a disgrace. Simple as that. I work at a station that is served by this timetable and i have never witnessed as many cancellations since last Sunday. Northern guards previously based at Leeds who are now based at Man Vic that are on old Arriva Trains Northern terms and conditions get paid more than the FNW/Northern guards based at Vic. This has caused 'work to rule' and therefore no available traincrew for the B'pool - Vic. Its the same story with the Drivers. Northern are also to blame as they are timetabled to operate more services now without enough staff in the first place. The class 180's are atrocious. I knew that they where no good before they came because FIRST Transpennine Express did not want them for their Scotland services as they go 125mph and would cut journey times etc etc. The 180's previously at 'FIRST' Great Western, would have been easy picking for 'FIRST' TP. I haven't seen one run since Thursday, when an air supply problem at Blackpool North occurred on unit 180103. Does anybody else have an opinion on this new timetable?

 

[dunks]

The new Blackpool North to Manchester Victoria route is a disgrace. Simple as that. I work at a station that is served by this timetable and i have never witnessed as many cancellations since last Sunday. Northern guards previously based at Leeds who are now based at Man Vic that are on old Arriva Trains Northern terms and conditions get paid more than the FNW/Northern guards based at Vic. This has caused 'work to rule' and therefore no available traincrew for the B'pool - Vic. Its the same story with the Drivers. Northern are also to blame as they are timetabled to operate more services now without enough staff in the first place. The class 180's are atrocious. I knew that they where no good before they came because FIRST Transpennine Express did not want them for their Scotland services as they go 125mph and would cut journey times etc etc. The 180's previously at 'FIRST' Great Western, would have been easy picking for 'FIRST' TP. I haven't seen one run since Thursday, when an air supply problem at Blackpool North occurred on unit 180103. Does anybody else have an opinion on this new timetable?

I'd heard on other forums about reliability problems with the 180's. I thought it was possible to attatch a 'Thunderbird' loco to a 180? Maybe Northern should have one on standby at either Preston, Blackpool or Man Victoria? Someone over at Railwayscene even said the 180 Hazel Grove diagrams were cancelled last week. As I understood it, Northern in particular appears to have quite a reputation for cancelling services.

And I had seen a few across-the-board cancellations on the online departure boards last week - even on TPX.

 

[alex57601]

I'd heard on other forums about reliability problems with the 180's. I thought it was possible to attatch a 'Thunderbird' loco to a 180? Maybe Northern should have one on standby at either Preston, Blackpool or Man Victoria? Someone over at Railwayscene even said the 180 Hazel Grove diagrams were cancelled last week. As I understood it, Northern in particular appears to have quite a reputation for cancelling services.

And I had seen a few across-the-board cancellations on the online departure boards last week - even on TPX.

180 reliability hasn't really been a bugbear last week. The main root of Northern's problems last week was down to a lack of train crew and rolling stock meaning that there were delays and cancellations all over the place. The fact that there's a new timetable doesn't help matters either.

 

[dunks]

180 reliability hasn't really been a bugbear last week. The main root of Northern's problems last week was down to a lack of train crew and rolling stock meaning that there were delays and cancellations all over the place. The fact that there's a new timetable doesn't help matters either.

Maybe its just good old new timetable "teething troubles".

 

[Mojo]

The same thing happenned with FGW's new timetables in December 2006 & December 2007. The same also happenned on Greater Anglia ('one,' now National Express) when they launched their new timetable.

Also see problems on London Midland and semi-problems on XC