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Manchester to Liverpool commute

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Bijgc

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Hello all,
Partner and I are considering relocating from South London to Manchester or Liverpool. Partners job would be in Liverpool, mine in Manchester. Just wondering what people's experiences of the Liverpool - Manchester commute were? Is the service reliable and as overcrowded as our current croydon to London journeys are, or can you get any work done on a peak time train? I presume a gold card between the closest suburban station and Liverpool/Manchester is the best fares option?

Many thanks!
 
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yorkie

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If this is central Manchester to central Liverpool, then you have a choice of stations in Manchester, and two routes to Liverpool. This is a bonus in the event of an incident on one line, you still have the other. But you then go to talk about a suburban station, in which case you may be restricting yourself to one of the lines.

The route through Newton-le-Willows is being electrified, which means that this service should generally be more reliable, faster and will have longer, more frequent, trains.

The Warrington Central route will become a bit of a backwater in comparison.

An Annual Season is not a Gold Card up north, sadly.
 

Mutant Lemming

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It does depend on whereabouts in Manchester you are coming from and where in Liverpool you are going to. If you are to the North-West of Manchester there is also the old L & Y route which these days necessitates a change at Kirkby but gives you the option of a service to Moorfields and Liverpool Central. You can also change at Liverpool South Parkway on the Warrington route for services to Liverpool Central and Moorfields but it would only be advantageous if where you want in Liverpool is close to Moorfields station as it would quicker to change at Lime Street for Central.
You could relcoate to somewhere between the two like Warrington or Wigan which both have alternative routes to Liverpool and Manchester as well as a few bus routes.
 

Bijgc

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Thanks guys, I was imagining something like East Didsbury to Liverpool Lime Street via Manchester Piccadilly. If there is no such thing as a gold card, does the annual get you any equivalent railcard discounts?

Best wishes
 

snail

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No discounts, sadly. The only perk is free 1st upgrade on TransPennine Express trains at weekends over the same route as the season ticket.

You may find it cheaper to buy a monthly+ a few days ticket every 5 weeks, starting Monday ending Friday. The add on is calculated pro-rata so can be more cost effective than an annual ticket.
 

61653 HTAFC

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It also depends how long this arrangement is going to last- If you're planning to settle long-term, then the Chat Moss route (through Newton) would be an ideal option, as once the wires go up it'll have a much better service- though you will have to put up with disruption while the work is carried out. The CLC route (through Warrington Central) currently has 2 express trains per hour courtesy of FTPE and EMT, though after the electrification the Transpennine service will shift to the Northerly route. I'm not massively familiar with the lie of the land between Liverpool and Manchester, but if you're planning on having a car it might be an idea to look to move somewhere between the 2 routes- this will gove you some degree of flexibility particularly during the disruption of the wires going up.

Additionally, both Greater Manchester and Merseyside are PTE areas, so if you are close to the boundaries of one of the areas, you may be able to save money by travelling from the boundary station (at least in one case- you'd have to decide on a number of factors such as where you actually want to be living).
 

hairyhandedfool

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Fewer people commute by train in the north, but because of that the trains are smaller and less frequent. The result is that the peak trains do get busy and there will be people standing for upwards of twenty minutes on some services.

That said, compared to a typical London commute (or rather what most people believe to be a typical commute), the service is very reliable, infact I can't recall the last time Northern Rail had 'void days' or season ticket discounts for reliability or punctuality!

Fares can vary because both Liverpool and Manchester have their own PTEs which discount some fares, but they don't work together on this, so if you live in the Greater Manchester, fares to Liverpool will seem more expensive than fares to Manchester, if you live in Merseyside the opposite applies.

Also, frequency of train will vary by where you live, the closer to Liverpool you are the better links you have to go there at the expense of transport links to Manchester.

If you can't live in the centre of Liverpool or the centre of Manchester I would say the most logical place to live would be the centre of Warrington (5tph both ways, each over two routes, though some are faster than others), but the fares to Liverpool and Manchester will be hindered by it not being in a PTE area.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
....If you're planning to settle long-term, then the Chat Moss route (through Newton) would be an ideal option, as once the wires go up it'll have a much better service- though you will have to put up with disruption while the work is carried out.....

Works are carried out overnight, though there may be some disruption, at some point, for the new trackwork being put in around Huyton and for the Ordsall Curve
 
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Chester is a good location. Direct trains hourly to Manchester via the long Mid Cheshire route and the shorter Warrington route plus trains direct to Liverpool every 15 mins on the peak. You can also qualify for Merseytravel tickets which are good value.
 

HYPODERMIC

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Hello all,
Partner and I are considering relocating from South London to Manchester or Liverpool. Partners job would be in Liverpool, mine in Manchester. Just wondering what people's experiences of the Liverpool - Manchester commute were? Is the service reliable and as overcrowded as our current croydon to London journeys are, or can you get any work done on a peak time train? I presume a gold card between the closest suburban station and Liverpool/Manchester is the best fares option?

Many thanks!
Generally, the service between these two cities is reliable and punctual, but trains in the North are always significantly shorter and often less frequent than in the South East, so you will need to be prepared to time your journeys more carefully as the wait for the next service might be longer than you are used to.

The quality of the rolling stock and journey environment can vary dramatically depending on which train company you make your journey with. In terms of comfort and convenience, TransPennine Express is preferable to Northern Rail which generally uses much older stock, but please note that these franchises are expected to be merged in a few years time, and this could possibly lead to a reconfiguration of rolling stock deployment.

There are two major routes between Manchester and Liverpool: the northern route (via Newton-le-Willows), and the southern route (via Warrington Central).

The southern route currently offers a better service, but the northern route is currently undergoing significant upgrades that will make it a much superior line once these works are completed. When this happens, train operators will generally be switching to the northern route - so be wary of buying a house near a suburban station on the southern route if you expect the current level of service on this line to last forever!

Finally, I recommend in the strongest possible terms that you settle in Manchester and not Liverpool. :lol: (just kidding; Liverpool is a nice place too, although I am much less familiar with its suburbs)

South Manchester is generally better than North Manchester although there are a few infamous exceptions. West Didsbury and Chorlton are the nicest areas, followed by East Didsbury, Sale, and Heaton Chapel, but these are merely my favourites, and there are many other pleasant (and more affordable!) areas; I'm sure you'll do thorough research of your own anyway.

Manchester has an expanding fast-tram network called "Metrolink", directly linking many of its suburbs to Piccadilly and Victoria mainline stations, both of which offer regular National Rail services to Liverpool. Sale and Chorlton are two areas which are already on the network; the much sought-after West and East Didsbury areas are being added to the network in the next couple of years.

For this reason, you may find it worthwhile to consider living near a tram stop instead of a suburban National Rail station, as you will have a more frequent metro-style service direct to the central stations from where you will be guaranteed the best services to Liverpool instead of being reliant on the slow and infrequent (by London standards) local stopping services in the North West.
 
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Silv1983

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East Didsbury is okay... or you could move over the border into Stockport (cheaper car insurance) nearer to Heaton Moor and take advantage of Heaton Chapel Railway station which has more trains to Manchester (10 minute journey) at 7:15, 7:41, 8:08, 8:18, 8:36, 8:47. Then from Piccadilly there are trains to Liverpool (express using TPE) or you can go to Oxford Rd and get the stopper. Funny thing is I grew up in South London and suffered the busy Networkers into town - and I now live up here (Heaton Moor) so not far off your circumstances.
 

neilmc

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I'm biased but I'd consider Manchester area preferable to Liverpool, other things being equal, as Manchester has much better connections to everywhere else in the country and has a much bigger international airport. If you want to compromise and both commute to work Warrington is a surprisingly modern town and quite commutable but see comments above re electrification. Wigan is not bad and cheaper than Warrington to live but I assume that you'd find prices of houses, rentals and everything else a pleasant surprise in both places after living in London.
 

Lewisham2221

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Of course with the delights of Moss Side, Wythenshawe and the cast of Shameless on every street corner..

(and a higher crime rate )

http://crimerates.co.uk/compare/16/manchester-uk/43/liverpool-merseyside-uk/

On the other hand, on my most recent visit to Liverpool, one of the first things I saw, withing 5 minutes of leaving Lime Street station, was one of Liverpool's finest (shoplifters) being chased down the street, thrown to the floor and sat on until back-up arrived! What more do you need to reinforce a reputation/stereotype on arrival in a town or city? :lol:
 

Manchester77

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My personal experiences of commuting in manchester (I live in Stretford) is:-
- Being near a metrolink station is a real advantage. Where I live it is a ten minute walk down the canal to Stretford metrolink. With the network expanding its a real advantage being relatively close to a stop. It gives a quick, easy way to commute to different parts of the city and t the two main railway stations for connections to other places.
- Metrolink coverage is expanding. Many suburban areas in south, east and manchester are getting metrolink. By 2016 (more likely 2017/8) are to get a tram service. Look into this because as I said it connects everywhere. I'm not saying use it to go West Didsbury - Piccadilly but West Dudsbury - East Didsbury and the a mainline connection.
- Suburban rail services aren't anything like London's!! Moving from somewhere with a frequent service to somewhere with 1tph is a shock. I live down the road from Trafford Park station but that gets a very erratic service usually of an overcrowded 150. I'd rather walk 10/15 minutes to the metrolink than the hanging around for the overcrowded pacer which has been cancelled!
- Asses your options. A quick look on the trainline shows there are 3 TOCs operating between Manchester Piccadilly and Liverpool Lime Street. This gives you a good choice of prices, journey times and comfort.

My Liverpool Experience by car was greeted by a welcome to Liverpool sign with three bullet holes in :D


Hope this helps!:D
 

Bevan Price

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On the other hand, on my most recent visit to Liverpool, one of the first things I saw, withing 5 minutes of leaving Lime Street station, was one of Liverpool's finest (shoplifters) being chased down the street, thrown to the floor and sat on until back-up arrived! What more do you need to reinforce a reputation/stereotype on arrival in a town or city? :lol:

All towns & cities have a quota of low life. The only time someone has attempted (but failed) to mug me was in Wigan, less than 5 minutes walk from the stations.

As for location to live, it will also depend on what kind of housing you want and can afford. Liverpool & Manchester all have some safe / pleasant areas, or you could choose somewhere in between Liverpool & Manchester, such as Warrington / Birchwood, Newton Le Willows, St. Helens, Rainhill, Widnes or Wigan. Expect most peak hour trains to be pretty full, and don't expect to do much work on the train.
 

Gathursty

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If you put a gun to my head then I would suggest Ashton in Makerfield. This is if you wanted to be within 10 minutes driving distance of both PTEs (Bryn, Garswood, Newton-le-Willows, St Helens Junction/Central).

I mention the above, particularly Newton and St Helens as their services are much more regular than the line I'm a fan of and native to which is the Manchester-Wigan-Kirkby-Moorfields line comprising Upholland, Orrell and Pemberton which are decreasingly picturesque but increasingly towards the middle of both cities.

The hourly Kirkby line requires a change at Kirkby for Merseyrail/Northern services and is not availble between Wigan Wallgate and Kirkby on a Sunday and evenings after 7 pm.
 

Gareth

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My Liverpool Experience by car was greeted by a welcome to Liverpool sign with three bullet holes in :D[/B


Let's face it, you've made that up. It's a shame all this stuff about Liverpool has started yet again. Every single time on this forum. What is it about rail enthusiasts being anti-Liverpool? Is there a history there?

I'm assuming the OP has personal reasons for why he needs to live in the Manchester area because if he's working in Liverpool but otherwise foot-loose, it makes no sense not to relocate to Liverpool. There are plenty of nice areas on the Merseyrail system, which is one of if not the most reliable train operator in the country and the Merseytravel ticket schemes are good value.

Oh and Liverpool also has a notably lower crime rate than Manchester. Not that thät will stop the bigotry.
 

Manchester77

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Erm no I haven't I was on a coach of 35 people we were going to the Beatles centre and then Liverpool one which has all be beautifully done btw. As we drove in from some weird twisty road there was a roar of laughter from 30 children as they all tweeted and took pictures of it.

P.S. why've you put an umlaut on your 'a' in that?
 

Gareth

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Finnish keyboard. Also allows each 'that' to have its own identity which helps self-esteem.

Which sign was this, by the way?
 
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6Gman

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Why not try the Crewe area?

Nice rural area
Cheap housing
Plenty of trains into both Liverpool and Manchester
Low crime rate
Cheap car (and home) insurance

Might move there myself!

Oh, already have done!
 

185

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On the other hand, on my most recent visit to Liverpool, one of the first things I saw, withing 5 minutes of leaving Lime Street station, was one of Liverpool's finest (shoplifters) being chased down the street, th....:



From the Scouse Dictionary:
Shoplifters Express (n) The name given to any excursion train from the surrounding countryside to Liverpool. That's Cheshire, Staffordshire, North Wales.....

Did you visit our city on this.....? ;)
 

Manchester77

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Finnish keyboard. Also allows each 'that' to have its own identity which helps self-esteem.

Which sign was this, by the way?

Oh right, I know that on my iPad if. Hold down the 'a' it puts an umlaut over it.

The welcome to Liverpool sign it was like yellow I think it was 3 years ago
 

507 001

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Oh for gods sake, not all this anti-Liverpool stuff again. Its getting to the point where I won't read any threads that mention Liverpool in the title.
To the OP, don't let the hate in here put you off Liverpool, it's a fantastic city with much to offer!
 

bunnahabhain

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Oh for gods sake, not all this anti-Liverpool stuff again. Its getting to the point where I won't read any threads that mention Liverpool in the title.
To the OP, don't let the hate in here put you off Liverpool, it's a fantastic city with much to offer!
Yup, if you like nostalgia then a trip on Merseyrail is a must, it feels like London Underground in the 1970s!
 

NSE

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Jheeeez they're moving out from Croydon. Liverpool's a breeze in comparison.
 

Lewisham2221

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Methinks Gareth and 507 001 need to take a chill pill.

Nobody has seriously suggested that, if the OP moves to Liverpool, he will be shot, stabbed, beaten and robbed whilst his house is burnt to the ground by a raging mob, wheras if he chose Manchester he would be living in the most pleasant, saintly neighbourhood known to man.

My original post about Liverpool was intended as a light hearted annecdote regarding a stereotype/repuation, however true, or not, that stereotype/reputation may be. When I witnessed the incident, my friend and I laughed at the irony and said "Welcome to Liverpool". The same could have happened anywhere in the country...

There certainly hasn't been a load of "anti-Liverpool bigotry" posted. Excuse me whilst I go and find somewhere private to laugh. If you're naive enough to think that any stereotype of Liverpool and it's inhabitants is self-contained within the rail enthusiast community you really need to get out more.

My experiences of Liverpool, on the whole, have been quite pleasant. The fact that two people who appear to be from Merseyside have instantly, in a fairly hostile manner, jumped to defend Liverpool from a couple of light hearted posts probably does more damage for the reputation of Liverpool than the (light hearted) posts do.

By the way, I'm from Stoke-on-Trent, come throw some critiscism this way if you wish, I'll probably join you...
 

yorkie

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Alright, you've stumped me. I can't tell if this is post is meant ironically or literally!
It cannot be taken literally, as first there is a discussion of suburbs of Manchester, and then there are crime rate statistics provided that are based on a radius of "1 mile". So the suburbs are excluded from the stats.

With crime rate stats that only encompass a small area, it is not possible to compare Liverpool with Manchester using those stats.

For example comparing York with Liverpool, York apparently has more anti-social behaviour. That may be true in the city centre, as louts from places like Teesside flock to York every weekend and behave badly. But that wouldn't make York a worse place to live, as the louts causing those statistics live in dumps elsewhere!;)
 

ainsworth74

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That may be true in the city centre, as louts from places like Teesside flock to York every weekend and behave badly. But that wouldn't make York a worse place to live, as the louts causing those statistics live in dumps elsewhere!

Oi! Don't make me come down there and lout around the place *shakes fist* ;)
 
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