Manchester to Ipswich/Felixstowe

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was there a direct rail service from Manchester to either of these two areas ran in the 1960/1970 period as a link to passenger ferry services from that area to European ports? I know that Felixstowe is a very large container port these days.

 

[Greenback]

There were no services to Felixstowe that I can recall, but there were cross country trains to Harwich Parkeston Quay (as was) from a number of different places in the north.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There was a long-time Liverpool Central-Harwich via Manchester Central-Sheffield Vic-Lincoln-March-Ipswich called the North Country Continental or some such, meeting the night boats. It even had portions for Newcastle and Liverpool Exchange (via Man V and Wakefield) joined at Doncaster and attached to the main train at Lincoln.

Anyway, this was cut back in the 1960s just to run from Manchester Piccadilly using one trainset. I can't remember when it finished on that route, but it was revived briefly by BR XC, along with services to other ports like Dover, Newhaven, Portsmouth etc, running via the WCML and the North London line. Must have last run c1990.

Legend has it that bemused foreign folk travelling from Harwich to London kept turning up at Liverpool Central on this train instead of Liverpool Street.
It's still amusing to see the signs at Ely which show the hourly EMT Norwich-Liverpool trains as destination "LIME ST (LIVERPOOL)" rather than "LIVERPOOL LIME ST"!

 

[Welshman]

Legend has it that bemused foreign folk travelling from Harwich to London kept turning up at Liverpool Central on this train instead of Liverpool Street.
It's still amusing to see the signs at Ely which show the hourly EMT Norwich-Liverpool trains as destination "LIME ST (LIVERPOOL)" rather than "LIVERPOOL LIME ST"!

Likewise, the conductor on EMT's Norwich-Liverpool service I used recently was at pains to stress in his pre-departure announcement that this service was for "Liverpool, MERSEYSIDE"

 

[ivanhoe]

In the late 80's , there was a service from Liverpool to Harwich, which would have called at Manchester. This service was re-vamped in the early 90's Liverpool to Norwich. The service use to go via Loughborough that gave me an hourly direct train to Liverpool but was changed to go via Grantham in the late 90's

I do remember one car arriving at Loughborough going to Liverpool. It had started from Harwich

 

[tbtc]

In the late 80's , there was a service from Liverpool to Harwich, which would have called at Manchester. This service was re-vamped in the early 90's Liverpool to Norwich. The service use to go via Loughborough that gave me an hourly direct train to Liverpool but was changed to go via Grantham in the late 90's

I do remember one car arriving at Loughborough going to Liverpool. It had started from Harwich

The current hourly Liverpool - Norwich service used to be a variety of routes (e.g. starting at Blackpool, running via Leicester, running to Cambridge), before being concentrated on one "cross country" route

 

[dggar]

In the late 80's , there was a service from Liverpool to Harwich, which would have called at Manchester. This service was re-vamped in the early 90's Liverpool to Norwich. The service use to go via Loughborough that gave me an hourly direct train to Liverpool but was changed to go via Grantham in the late 90's

I do remember one car arriving at Loughborough going to Liverpool. It had started from Harwich

I believe the service at that time originated at Glasgow.
I travelled to Amsterdam on 2 separate trips in the early eighties catching the train at Manchester Victoria. It then travelled to Ashburys to pick up the Hope valley route via Reddish and Marple and reversed at Sheffield. The route then went to Alfreton Parkway, Nottingham, Granthem, Peterborough, Ely and on to Parkston Quay.It departed about 3:00pm to connect with the over night ferry. Usually hauled by a 47.

 

[O L Leigh]

During the 1980's I believe the train was called The Rhineland, so somesuch. However, the service survived Sprinterisation and became The Loreley which was formed of a pair of Cl156s which divided en route with one portion for Liverpool and Manchester and the other to Brum(?). This was in addition to the Ipswich-bound services that ran at the time from the Midlands and North-West.

O L Leigh

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

During the 1980's I believe the train was called The Rhineland, so somesuch. However, the service survived Sprinterisation and became The Loreley which was formed of a pair of Cl156s which divided en route with one portion for Liverpool and Manchester and the other to Brum(?). This was in addition to the Ipswich-bound services that ran at the time from the Midlands and North-West.

O L Leigh

I think that this must have been the service to IPSWICH that I referred to in my original thread query.As such, I thank you for this information.

I knew of the HARWICH service but when someone specifically asked me about either IPSWICH or FELIXSTOWE, as part of a historical paper on the Suffolk and Essex area, I did not recall one and thought that the best action to take would be to pose this as a question thread on this forum.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm confused.

The named services I mentioned above were the boat trains that always started and finished at Harwich Parkeston Quay and, when they were no longer routed via the NLL and WCML, would have passed through Ipswich. However, Ipswich already had it's own rail links with the Midlands and North-West as part of the BR (and later Provincial Services) XC network in addition to, and independent of, the boat trains.

But to answer the specific question in the original post, no there were never trains from Manchester to Ipswich or Felixstowe to connect with the boats to Europe, as the boats did not sail from either of these ports. Yes there were trains from Manchester to connect with the sailings, but these went to Harwich PQ (even though many would have stopped at Ipswich). Additionally, yes there were also regular trains to Ipswich from Manchester that had nothing to do with the boat trains.

I expect you already know this, but the Ports of Felixstowe and Harwich share the same stretch of water, facing each other from opposite sides of the Stour Estuary. Harwich always majored on passenger traffic because of it's quicker links to London via the Great Eastern Railway, where passengers from Felixstowe had to get to Ipswich first for connections to London.

O L Leigh

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

O L Leigh, I thank you for your full and detailed comments. I did have my doubts about Ipswich for passenger ferries, knowing of the reputation that Harwich has always had. This appears to be the definitive answer to my query concerning the 1960/1970 period.

I think that the article that I had read in an old newspaper from that area must have been referring to small-ish freight services and the Manchester rail connection to that area had obviously been taken out of context by the reporter writing the article confusing Harwich with Ipswich, which does not say much about his journalistic article preparation. Still, local papers are not to be compared with the Nationals.
.

 

[The Sleeper]

Was there a direct rail service from Manchester to either of these two areas ran in the 1960/1970 period as a link to passenger ferry services from that area to European ports? I know that Felixstowe is a very large container port these days.

In 1980 there was a Manchester to Harwich boat train service which called at Ipswich running via Bury St Edmonds. there is a leaflet about this for sale at:
http://www.specialistauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1499166

 

[Flywaver]

The European... Cl47 plus mixture of mostly MK2s and odd MK3. Am i right that it split at Carstairs?