Manchester - Stalybridge Electrification

[Chester1]

I wonder if / when Guide Bridge-Stalybridge is eventually electrified, whether there would be sufficient traffic for a Piccadilly-Stalybridge stopper serving Ashburys, Gorton, Fairfield and Guide Bridge? Removing all stops between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge would speed up the slow Rose Hill DMU service.

 

[Ken H]

I wonder if / when Guide Bridge-Stalybridge is eventually electrified, whether there would be sufficient traffic for a Piccadilly-Stalybridge stopper serving Ashburys, Gorton, Fairfield and Guide Bridge? Removing all stops between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge would speed up the slow Rose Hill DMU service.

bung a class 769 on the rose hills. Its electrified about half way. I'd wire to Hyde North to simplify working.

 

[trickyvegas]

As most trains from east of Victoria no longer terminate there P1 and P2 will now be able to be used to store trains between the peaks.

As far as I'm aware, Platforms 1 & 2 connect to the Guide Bridge route only in the direction

 

[Mollman]

I wonder if / when Guide Bridge-Stalybridge is eventually electrified, whether there would be sufficient traffic for a Piccadilly-Stalybridge stopper serving Ashburys, Gorton, Fairfield and Guide Bridge? Removing all stops between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge would speed up the slow Rose Hill DMU service.

That has been a plan in the past, although it was to speed up Hadfield / Glossop services as far as I recall.

 

[Eccles1983]

As far as I'm aware, Platforms 1 & 2 connect to the Guide Bridge route only in the direction

Eh?

At Vic? No, they don't. They are linked to the up fast and slow lines, you can still get across to the Rochdale lines from them.

At pic (which is what I think you are on about.) again you can get out to the fast and slows from 1&2.

Unless you are on about stalybridge, which again you are mistaken. You can get to the ashton or guide bridge lines from them.

 

[trickyvegas]

Eh?

At Vic? No, they don't. They are linked to the up fast and slow lines, you can still get across to the Rochdale lines from them.

At pic (which is what I think you are on about.) again you can get out to the fast and slows from 1&2.

Unless you are on about stalybridge, which again you are mistaken. You can get to the ashton or guide bridge lines from them.

It was the platforms at Stalybridge I was referring to.

 

[familyguy99]

Pass through Manchester Victoria station (by tram) and I can confirm that wires are up on east section of line toward to Rochdale rd bridge. As I was coming back at 4pm, there doesn't seem to be any wires heading into platform 1/2 but given lines are closes until Saturday, I feel wires probably be up in bay platform by time train start resume to Manchester Victoria station on Saturday.

 

[Geeves]

Its not like there will be a rush of electric trains using the wires even if they are delayed, its really pretty depressing.

In regards to Stalybridge all the platforms except 5 can access Guide Bridge and Ashton, 5 only being able to access the Ashton line.

 

[familyguy99]

Took some photo of work going on - on east section of line at Manchester Victoria.

 

[Jonny]

I wonder if / when Guide Bridge-Stalybridge is eventually electrified, whether there would be sufficient traffic for a Piccadilly-Stalybridge stopper serving Ashburys, Gorton, Fairfield and Guide Bridge? Removing all stops between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge would speed up the slow Rose Hill DMU service.

That has been a plan in the past, although it was to speed up Hadfield / Glossop services as far as I recall.

Transferring the stops at Gorton and Fairfield to the Hadfield/Glossop service might speed things up a bit overall - after all, the EMUs have the better acceleration.

 

[johnnychips]

Transferring the stops at Gorton and Fairfield to the Hadfield/Glossop service might speed things up a bit overall - after all, the EMUs have the better acceleration.

The trains from Glossop used to stop at all stations, but now I expect the demand for a faster service from places on that line east of Guide Bridge exceeds that from Hyde North, Hyde Central and Woodley.

 

[superkev]

Forgive me if I've lost track but is Man Vic Stalybridge paused, cancelled or actually in progress.
Seems negligent to have all that piling equipment and manpower going to waste while Mr Failing sits on his hands.
I remember when engineers were in charge of there own budgets when the Kings X -Hitchin was finished the piling team where kept going north even before any more was authorised. Whats happened to common sense.
K

 

[Chester1]

Forgive me if I've lost track but is Man Vic Stalybridge paused, cancelled or actually in progress.
Seems negligent to have all that piling equipment and manpower going to waste while Mr Failing sits on his hands.
K

A ~800m section on Victoria's eastern approach, including sidings and platforms 1 and 2 are currently being done now to take advantage of the Christmas shutdown. The rest has been paused while plans for the Transpennine upgrade are finalised. Stalybridge station will most likely be rebuilt (again) which makes it a waste of money to proceed now. Miles Platting Junction might be rebuilt too. There have been significant enabling works therefore it will be a cheap project to proceed with. Ashton station was closed for a couple of weeks in April to replace the signalling system and do track renewals, so it's not been forgotten.

 

[Magicake]

Pass through Manchester Victoria station (by tram) and I can confirm that wires are up on east section of line toward to Rochdale rd bridge. As I was coming back at 4pm, there doesn't seem to be any wires heading into platform 1/2 but given lines are closes until Saturday, I feel wires probably be up in bay platform by time train start resume to Manchester Victoria station on Saturday.

I have heard that platform 1 & 2 will not be completed during the blockade but carried out in the New Year.

 

[Tim_UK]

I have heard that platform 1 & 2 will not be completed during the blockade but carried out in the New Year.

When I went past on Saturday, platform 1 was open. Some posts for wiring, but no wires up.

Platform 2 was fenced off.

 

[Trapper]

When I went past on Saturday, platform 1 was open. Some posts for wiring, but no wires up.

Platform 2 was fenced off.

Had a look today as I traveled through Victoria. The termination posts for the OHL still need to be installed, that would explain why the wires are still missing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If the Extension Lead is supposed to be in the cable route being built on the north side of the line between Miles Platting and Victoria, it is a long way from being ready.
This is mostly being installed onto the side of the boundary wall for the railway and is in several discrete lengths with gaps between, and there is no cable installed.
Most of it is still in the first stages of construction.
P1/2 at Victoria are still unwired.

 

[Magicake]

Yes I'm afraid that is the extension lead, definitely still quite a bit to do.

 

[superkev]

Yes I'm afraid that is the extension lead, definitely still quite a bit to do.

I struggle to understand the extension lead the cost of which must be huge.
A very rough quess based on some costs off of Google are 14000m at around £300/m = £4,2Million
Couple of questions.
1. Is my guess anywhere near.
2. Is the extension lead completion essential for the electric service to commence?
3. Is it instead of the deferred overhead Vic to stalybridge.
4. Would a feeder at Vic been cheaper.
Thanks in advance.
K

 

[GRALISTAIR]

4. Would a feeder at Vic been cheaper.
Thanks in advance.
K

Hugely more expensive if even possible. A grid feeder needs to be extremely close to the National Grid Powerlines. I am fairly certain there are not any near Manchester Victoria Station. Heyrod was and is the absolutely perfect and logical location when the electrification was first planned.

 

[Elecman]

It needs to be close to a 400kv powerline switching station to be even more precise

 

[Elecman]

theyvarecalso very long lead time ( several years) items with National Grid, so when first planned Heyrod was perfect, by the time things got Graylinged it would have been too far advanced to cancel and use somewhere else like Kearsley ( if that is a 400Kv site) so as no o/head gantries were being installed to Stalybridge it became necessary for the long extension lead(s). Just as on the Western Route from Melksham as the equivalent electrification wiring was canned there too.

 

[Magicake]

I struggle to understand the extension lead the cost of which must be huge.
A very rough quess based on some costs off of Google are 14000m at around £300/m = £4,2Million
Couple of questions.
1. Is my guess anywhere near.
2. Is the extension lead completion essential for the electric service to commence?
3. Is it instead of the deferred overhead Vic to stalybridge.
4. Would a feeder at Vic been cheaper.
Thanks in advance.
K

1. I don't have exact figures but would suggest that you are in the right order of magnitude
2.yes, for a full timetable. Feeding arrangements have been amended so some level of electric service can be provided without
3. Yes absolutely
4. Answered by posters above far more succinctly than i could

 

[edwin_m]

I think we established further back that some sort of feeder would have been provided even with the electrification as originally planned, but possibly only between Heyrod and Staylybridge so that when OLE on that section was isolated, Heyrod could still feed the rest of the network either via Ashton or via Guide Bridge.

£300/m alongside a double track line is £150k per single track km. OLE costs a lot more than that, so it doesn't seem to be the case that the cost saving has cost more than the amount saved.

 

[scrapy]

The trains from Glossop used to stop at all stations, but now I expect the demand for a faster service from places on that line east of Guide Bridge exceeds that from Hyde North, Hyde Central and Woodley.

The 323s to Hadfield are generally full at peak times whereas the Rose Hills generally have spare capacity even when 2 car so it makes sense for them to stop as it spreads passenger loadings as well

 

[twpsaesneg]

I think we established further back that some sort of feeder would have been provided even with the electrification as originally planned, but possibly only between Heyrod and Staylybridge so that when OLE on that section was isolated, Heyrod could still feed the rest of the network either via Ashton or via Guide Bridge.

£300/m alongside a double track line is £150k per single track km. OLE costs a lot more than that, so it doesn't seem to be the case that the cost saving has cost more than the amount saved.

Yes, Stalybridge ATFS (Auto Transformer Feeder Station) was always going to be infed via independent cables from Heyrod to feed the Manchester side of the proposed Neutral Sections which were going in West of Stalybridge station. When the Stalybridge Tunnel wiring was descoped very early on, Stalybridge ATFS would have fed both sides of the neutral sections for the stub end into the station.

The Extension Lead effectively extended that feed all the way to Ordsall Lane after the OLE was descoped - this was supposed to be a cost and time saving measure but I'm not altogether convinced it will be in the end.

 

[59CosG95]

Yes, Stalybridge ATFS (Auto Transformer Feeder Station) was always going to be infed via independent cables from Heyrod to feed the Manchester side of the proposed Neutral Sections which were going in West of Stalybridge station. When the Stalybridge Tunnel wiring was descoped very early on, Stalybridge ATFS would have fed both sides of the neutral sections for the stub end into the station.

The Extension Lead effectively extended that feed all the way to Ordsall Lane after the OLE was descoped - this was supposed to be a cost and time saving measure but I'm not altogether convinced it will be in the end.

So, to clarify - Stalybridge Tunnel isn't being wired? A pity, as I believe it'd make more sense to wire it up with the pointwork at Stalybridge East Jct being in close proximity to the western mouth of the tunnel.

If wires do ever extend east to Huddersfield, wiring the tunnel now (while Stalybridge is re-modelled (again!) and the track resignalled to the Manchester ROC) would be a useful way of getting the irons in the fire.
Then again, Stalybridge Tunnel is quite long...

 

[twpsaesneg]

So, to clarify - Stalybridge Tunnel isn't being wired? A pity, as I believe it'd make more sense to wire it up with the pointwork at Stalybridge East Jct being in close proximity to the western mouth of the tunnel.

If wires do ever extend east to Huddersfield, wiring the tunnel now (while Stalybridge is re-modelled (again!) and the track resignalled to the Manchester ROC) would be a useful way of getting the irons in the fire.
Then again, Stalybridge Tunnel is quite long...

I don't know what the plan is under Transpennine Route Upgrade, but it was descoped early on as part of the previous project as I believe the track lowers were deemed too disruptive / expensive.

 

[superkev]

1. I don't have exact figures but would suggest that you are in the right order of magnitude
2.yes, for a full timetable. Feeding arrangements have been amended so some level of electric service can be provided without
3. Yes absolutely
4. Answered by posters above far more succinctly than i could

Thanks for that most interesting. Grayling strikes again.
I suppose a 5th question is would it have been cheaper to put masts up and support the extension cables from them. Bare cable run overhead is a fraction of the cost of using insulated in trunking.
K

 

[Class 170101]

The Extension Lead effectively extended that feed all the way to Ordsall Lane after the OLE was descoped - this was supposed to be a cost and time saving measure but I'm not altogether convinced it will be in the end.

It could be considered a more resilant way of feeding Ordsall Lane should the wires be added back to the programme in future however I don't think overall its the right thing to have done this.