Manchester - Stalybridge Electrification

[geoffk]

Wasn't the whole point of electrifying Victoria to Stalybridge to run electric services through Victoria to somewhere useful (just as diesel services are to run to Rochdale's new bay platform)?

 

[twpsaesneg]

Wasn't the whole point of electrifying Victoria to Stalybridge to run electric services through Victoria to somewhere useful (just as diesel services are to run to Rochdale's new bay platform)?

Yes, but apparently Northern's magic Class 769's will fix everything.
The other main function of the wiring was to bring the power from Heyrod grid feeder to Central Manchester, which is being replaced by a ground level cable route as it was perceived to be cheaper by Network Rail.

 

[55z]

The other problem is lack of platforms at Manchester Victoria, with only 4 through platforms the plan is not to have trains terminating from the west blocking up through platforms so by running through to Stalybridge & Rochdale it solves this problem. Besides the current trains at Victoria the through platforms will have to accomodate one per hour each way Leeds to Manchester Airport (Calder Valley) Leeds to Chester (Calder Valley) & 4 Trans Pennine expresses every hour.

 

[Chester1]

Yes, but apparently Northern's magic Class 769's will fix everything.
The other main function of the wiring was to bring the power from Heyrod grid feeder to Central Manchester, which is being replaced by a ground level cable route as it was perceived to be cheaper by Network Rail.

I thought the plan was to run Wigan-Bolton-Victoria-Stalybridge services. Wigan to Lostock electrification has been paused therefore 769s will be required to run the service for the forseeable future. TP electrification is still scheduled for 2022 completion. It has not actually been cancelled yet.

 

[trickyvegas]

The other main function of the wiring was to bring the power from Heyrod grid feeder to Central Manchester, which is being replaced by a ground level cable route as it was perceived to be cheaper by Network Rail.

There was a large transformer replaced at Herod in October/November last year, not sure if that was related to the railway work.

 

[snowball]

Wigan to Lostock electrification has been paused

People say this from time to time, but I don't remember ever seeing any statement that said "it is being paused". I don't think it has ever had a firm date. I don't think it was mentioned at all when Swansea, MML and Windermere were cancelled. The Enhancements Delivery Plan has it as due to complete GRIP 3 last month, all other dates "to be determined".

 

[GRALISTAIR]

People say this from time to time, but I don't remember ever seeing any statement that said "it is being paused". I don't think it has ever had a firm date. I don't think it was mentioned at all when Swansea, MML and Windermere were cancelled. Supposedly it was due to complete GRIP 3 round about now.

Exactly my recollection too. I strongly suspect the timing will be -follow on after Manchester - Blackpool + the bit up to Miles Platting area is fully complete. I would bet a tenner on it but probably not a weeks salary.

 

[twpsaesneg]

I thought the plan was to run Wigan-Bolton-Victoria-Stalybridge services. Wigan to Lostock electrification has been paused therefore 769s will be required to run the service for the forseeable future. TP electrification is still scheduled for 2022 completion. It has not actually been cancelled yet.

Correct, however from what I see the 769s are spread awfully thin for what IIRC was a build of 8 units. When Phase 5 was descoped some of the key enablers for the OLE scheme were cancelled, such as the track lowering scheme at Katherine Street tunnel. As I recall that was planned to be done during the Ashton blockade, so new access would be needed for that big job!

 

[twpsaesneg]

People say this from time to time, but I don't remember ever seeing any statement that said "it is being paused". I don't think it has ever had a firm date. I don't think it was mentioned at all when Swansea, MML and Windermere were cancelled. The Enhancements Delivery Plan has it as due to complete GRIP 3 last month, all other dates "to be determined".

GRIP 3 submission has slipped slightly. Everything else is still TBC. More than that I can't say without getting fired!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

GRIP 3 submission has slipped slightly. Everything else is still TBC. More than that I can't say without getting fired!

Thank you - I appreciate that.

 

[Chester1]

Correct, however from what I see the 769s are spread awfully thin for what IIRC was a build of 8 units. When Phase 5 was descoped some of the key enablers for the OLE scheme were cancelled, such as the track lowering scheme at Katherine Street tunnel. As I recall that was planned to be done during the Ashton blockade, so new access would be needed for that big job!

It is very strongly rumoured that another 3 are being ordered to replace the 5 x Angel Trains 150s that GWR are keeping. I presume that if they are allocated to Wigan to Stalybridge they would occasionally be replaced by doubled up 150s.

 

[twpsaesneg]

It is very strongly rumoured that another 3 are being ordered to replace the 5 x Angel Trains 150s that GWR are keeping. I presume that if they are allocated to Wigan to Stalybridge they would occasionally be replaced by doubled up 150s.

I hope they work up Miles Platting Bank as well as they hope then!

 

[Elecman]

Yes, but apparently Northern's magic Class 769's will fix everything.
The other main function of the wiring was to bring the power from Heyrod grid feeder to Central Manchester, which is being replaced by a ground level cable route as it was perceived to be cheaper by Network Rail.

Don’t think the choice was about it being cheaper, more that it’s an absolute necessity to feed the Northwest Electrification schemes as the existing feeders at Willow Park and Catterall are aleady close to capacity, since the electrification to Stalybridge was canned

 

[deltic08]

Yes, but apparently Northern's magic Class 769's will fix everything.
The other main function of the wiring was to bring the power from Heyrod grid feeder to Central Manchester, which is being replaced by a ground level cable route as it was perceived to be cheaper by Network Rail.

Brilliant planning decision. So we have the cost of laying a 25kv ground cable and what do we get out of this but a ground cable? How many miles of overheads between Miles Platting and Stalybridge will this have paid for?

 

[Chester1]

Brilliant planning decision. So we have the cost of laying a 25kv ground cable and what do we get out of this but a ground cable? How many miles of overheads between Miles Platting and Stalybridge will this have paid for?

Probably less than a mile. I might have got the wrong idea but aren't we basically talking about just a cable in a shallow trench dug alongside the tracks between Miles Platting and Stalybridge? That sounds a small fraction of the cost of electrification and means more EMUs can run prior to the planned electrification to Stalybridge which will be 2022 at the earliest.

 

[deltic08]

Probably less than a mile. I might have got the wrong idea but aren't we basically talking about just a cable in a shallow trench dug alongside the tracks between Miles Platting and Stalybridge? That sounds a small fraction of the cost of electrification and means more EMUs can run prior to the planned electrification to Stalybridge which will be 2022 at the earliest.

How much more would it cost to convey power through a suspended overhead cable over one line. This can be used by 769s in one direction to/from Stalybridge.

 

[Domh245]

How much more would it cost to convey power through a suspended overhead cable over one line. This can be used by 769s in one direction to/from Stalybridge.

Considerably more, as it'd involve raising bridges, erecting masts every 50 metres or so, tensioning equipment, and so on. Also, given the proliferation of TTCs in current twin track schemes, there would be little point in doing one and not the other

 

[Ploughman]

A buried cable will come in handy for target practice if and when the next lot of masts get piled.

 

[driver_m]

Maybe of use to this thread. Ashton Moss Resignalling date has been included in weekly ops notices as electrification stage 5 and Resignalling, the ROC gives live 30th April.

 

[Chris125]

Brilliant planning decision. So we have the cost of laying a 25kv ground cable and what do we get out of this but a ground cable? How many miles of overheads between Miles Platting and Stalybridge will this have paid for?

I think I recall reading that this cable was going to be provided anyway? In which case it makes no difference.

 

[Elecman]

No it wasn’t as the OLE cables would have performed the same power transfer function

 

[Elecman]

There was a very tentative proposal to bring a 25 KV cable from Heyrod to the Manchester ROC as a standby supply

 

[ajdunlop]

Hasn’t much of the bridge work been completed already between Miles Platting and Stalybridge? I thought it was mostly just the masts and wiring required now.
Has the electrification of the line been officially cancelled or postponed yet?

 

[snowball]

Has the electrification of the line been officially cancelled or postponed yet?

It hasn't been mentioned by ministers or in NR press releases, but the September update to the Enhancements Delivery Plan had a diminished description of NW electrification phase 5. Instead of Stalybridge it said "Miles Platting area, details to be determined". Then the December update said Bromley Street.

It also mentions the power cable from Stalybridge to Ordsall Lane, which had been discussed on here for a long time but I think not mentioned in the Plan before.

It also put back the target date for the much reduced scheme from Dec 2017 to May 2018.

A positive side of this is that it raises the possibility that more extensive track updates between Manchester and Stalybridge could be included in the overall TP scheme.

A downside is that it could leave Manchester-Stalybridge overlooked as the people working on the larger scheme were assuming it would be done before they started.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Maybe of use to this thread. Ashton Moss Resignalling date has been included in weekly ops notices as electrification stage 5 and Resignalling, the ROC gives live 30th April.

That's a very important step in the electrification plan.
I'd begun to think it had been forgotten.
Does it cover Baguley Fold as well?
Only Diggle left then!

 

[deltic08]

The other problem is lack of platforms at Manchester Victoria, with only 4 through platforms the plan is not to have trains terminating from the west blocking up through platforms so by running through to Stalybridge & Rochdale it solves this problem. Besides the current trains at Victoria the through platforms will have to accomodate one per hour each way Leeds to Manchester Airport (Calder Valley) Leeds to Chester (Calder Valley) & 4 Trans Pennine expresses every hour.

......and whose fault is it there are only 4 through platforms at Man Vic when there was enough footprint for twice that many?

 

[Chester1]

......and whose fault is it there are only 4 through platforms at Man Vic when there was enough footprint for twice that many?

The past is the past and many members of this site dwell on it far too much! Victoria has an adequate number of through platforms and eastern platforms. There is sufficient space on the western approach to build two western terminating platforms should the need arise. Victoria needs more passenger facilities first, a heated waiting room would be a good start. Four through platforms is sufficient for a very large number of through services, for instance Oxford Road's four will soon be used by 12tph.

 

[deltic08]

The past is the past and many members of this site dwell on it far too much! Victoria has an adequate number of through platforms and eastern platforms. There is sufficient space on the western approach to build two western terminating platforms should the need arise. Victoria needs more passenger facilities first, a heated waiting room would be a good start. Four through platforms is sufficient for a very large number of through services, for instance Oxford Road's four will soon be used by 12tph.

Time will tell.

 

[Chester1]

Time will tell.

How many through services do you think Victoria needs?

 

[deltic08]

How many through services do you think Victoria needs?

You tell me. Footfall at Victoria has risen 8% in the last year to 8.2 million and is forecast to double to 16 million by 2035. Priority is being given to electrifying Miles Platting bank so that terminating trains can be shuffled around platforms at the 'back' of Victoria. That indicates to me that things are already becoming tight.