Manchester > Reading - Any Permitted?

[Jammer]

Hello,
If I want to go to Reading from Manchester and want to not go via London on the way out but via London on the way back what ticket should I get?

The only two I can see are 'via London' and 'not via London' is there an any permitted?

Thanks

 

[LexyBoy]

This has been changed recently, the "Not Via London" used to be "Any Permitted" which was valid via London but NRE and Virgin staff would deny this.

Anyway, you want to ask for the "Not Via London" fare with an excess on the return portion to travel via London. The excess should be half the difference in fares - if you let us know what times you wish to travel we can let you know the cost.

Also for the record if there is a more expensive routed fare, it is automatically valid on routes for which a cheaper ticket exists (taking time restrictions into account).

 

[yorkie]

Hmm.. the Any Permitted routeing has been withdrawn.

Perhaps an FOI request to the DfT asking who requested the change, why it was requested, and why did the DfT agree to it?

All flows should have an Any Permitted routeing.

Anyway as LexyBoy says, buy the cheaper ticket, and the relevant portion can be excessed.

A change of route excess is available on board the train at no extra cost, but in the case of excesses being required to go via London, you may want to try to get it before boarding as otherwise you can have problems if the Guard hasn't been able to issue it, as LU won't accept a 'Not via London' ticket and won't be able to excess it.

 

[Jammer]

thanks very much to the both of you. i was sure i had purchased an 'any permitted' before, thought i was losing it!

 

[yorkie]

You're not, but I think these lot are... https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/dft someone needs to ask them some questions

 

[tony_mac]

Just for completeness, despite the names you can just use a 'via London' ticket to travel not via London (the more expensive ticket is valid via the cheaper route).

(I mention this because people claiming on expenses may find it easier than trying to purchase the excess and claim for that as well as the ticket.)

 

[davetheguard]

This has been changed recently, the "Not Via London" used to be "Any Permitted" which was valid via London but NRE and Virgin staff would deny this.

Anyway, you want to ask for the "Not Via London" fare with an excess on the return portion to travel via London. The excess should be half the difference in fares - if you let us know what times you wish to travel we can let you know the cost.

Also for the record if there is a more expensive routed fare, it is automatically valid on routes for which a cheaper ticket exists (taking time restrictions into account).

Back in B.R. days, "via +London" was always the more expensive route compared to what is now Cross Country. As a result, the via +London ticket was available via the cheaper "not via London" route.

Jump forward to the present day, and the Cross Country route can actually be more expensive than "via +London" for some journeys; so my question is, if as LexyBoy says above, you can use a more expensive "not via London" ticket via London instead, presumably you would have to pay for the tube as there would be no + routing on the ticket?

 

[LexyBoy]

Jump forward to the present day, and the Cross Country route can actually be more expensive than "via +London" for some journeys; so my question is, if as LexyBoy says above, you can use a more expensive "not via London" ticket via London instead, presumably you would have to pay for the tube as there would be no + routing on the ticket?

Technically I believe it would be valid for transfer on the Underground as it is the Permitted Routes which determine this rather than the maltese cross. In practice it will not be accepted on the Underground so you would have to pay for transfer, or get the ticket excessed to the +Via London fare (or refund and re-issue if journey not started already).

 

[bakerstreet]

Back in B.R. days, "via +London" was always the more expensive route compared to what is now Cross Country. As a result, the via +London ticket was available via the cheaper "not via London" route.

Jump forward to the present day, and the Cross Country route can actually be more expensive than "via +London" for some journeys; so my question is, if as LexyBoy says above, you can use a more expensive "not via London" ticket via London instead, presumably you would have to pay for the tube as there would be no + routing on the ticket?

And given 1996 fares are used to confirm permitted routes shouldn't it still be the case that the +London ticket should be available not via London?

 

[thedbdiboy]

Hmm.. the Any Permitted routeing has been withdrawn.

Perhaps an FOI request to the DfT asking who requested the change, why it was requested, and why did the DfT agree to it?

All flows should have an Any Permitted routeing.

Yorkie, it is not and has never been the case that all flows are required to have an 'Any Permitted' route. All flows in existence on 23 July 1995 are deemed to be 'Compulsory Inter-Available Fares' which must be maintained by the designated Lead Operator unless subsequently amended or abolished - however at that date there were quite a few flows that weren't in existence with 'Any Permitted' routeing - most notably London-Exeter.

In the case of the XC flows via/not via London, it has always been anomalous that the ones termed 'Any Permitted' existed without the cross-London marker, whilst there were routed flows with the marker, and in such circumstances it is much more transparent to define the former as 'not London'. Whilst I am not privy to the dialogue between XC and the DfT I believe that a perfectly reasoned argument could be made that in making the change, the intention of the route as of 23/07/1995 was not being altered, rather the description was being improved...!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I see Manchester to Feltham still retains its Any Permitted fare which, if using the paper routeing guide is valid via London, but NRE and Virgin vigorously deny this.

 

[Starmill]

I see Manchester to Feltham still retains its Any Permitted fare which, if using the paper routeing guide is valid via London, but NRE and Virgin vigorously deny this.

Manchester to Feltham!?

I didn't even know there was another way to get to Feltham! I only knew it was in Z6, which, to me, means London. If I turn up at Feltham and ask for a ticket to Manchester I would have been expected to be directed to Euston...

Crazy.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Manchester to Feltham can be done with just one change at Reading. Certainly a convenient route for anybody who wants to avoid travel through London.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Back in B.R. days, "via +London" was always the more expensive route compared to what is now Cross Country. As a result, the via +London ticket was available via the cheaper "not via London" route.

Jump forward to the present day, and the Cross Country route can actually be more expensive than "via +London" for some journeys; so my question is, if as LexyBoy says above, you can use a more expensive "not via London" ticket via London instead, presumably you would have to pay for the tube as there would be no + routing on the ticket?

Strictly speaking there doesn't need to be a maltese cross to be valid for cross London connection, but any ticket without it would require the passenger to seek assistance to be let through the Underground barrier and with a ticket marked 'not via London' that might be tricky with some staff.

However, if you are lucky enough to find member of staff willing to issue a zero fare excess, you could be given the change of route excess that would have the '+' marker.