Manchester Piccadilly - Euston reduction?

[CHESHIRECAT]

Down to 2 ph from tomorrow ?
Xx55 SB and xx 13 NB cancelled

 

[800001]

Down to 2 ph from tomorrow ?
Xx55 SB and xx 13 NB cancelled

Comment on local community group mentions platform closures at Piccadilly for roof works but they've been ongoing for few months now ?

That’s what’s showing on RTT so must be correct.

All Avanti at Piccadilly showing as Variations.

Looks to be up to and including wc 23rd September.

 

[greatkingrat]

Avanti website says

Engineering work is taking place to the roof at Manchester Piccadilly station, closing Platforms 5, 6 and 7.
Whilst these platforms are blocked, Avanti West Coast will only be able to operate in and out of Platform 8.
As a result, the services to and from Manchester Piccadilly are reduced to two trains per hour:

 

[Lewisham2221]

Southbound all running via Stoke. Northbound one via Wilmslow, one via Stoke.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Ah ok up to now only 2 platforms closed at a time... random how the one via Crewe only cancelled Southbound
Tks all!

 

[Thomas6187]

Platform 7 will only be available to diesel traction, with the Bournemouth using it every hour. Avanti have minimal room for error, with the platform being used for 47 in every hour

 

[sjm77]

From Sectional Appendix an 11-car Pendo' can only fir in Platforms 5,6,7 or 8.

 

[CAF397]

All of platform 9 as well, though this would take out 10, 11 and 12 so would be super disruptive - but contingency would allow it.

 

[jfollows]

Down to 2 ph from tomorrow ?
Xx55 SB and xx 13 NB cancelled

Comment on local community group mentions platform closures at Piccadilly for roof works but they've been ongoing for few months now ?

Thank you for the heads-up; I tend to go for the xx.55 Piccadilly-Wilmslow so now I know not to bother.

It’s bad that there’s such short notice of this change, but it’s increasingly expected. The Piccadilly platform closures have been going on for months so something must have gone wrong with the last closures.

 

[800001]

Thank you for the heads-up; I tend to go for the xx.55 Piccadilly-Wilmslow so now I know not to bother.

It’s bad that there’s such short notice of this change, but it’s increasingly expected. The Piccadilly platform closures have been going on for months so something must have gone wrong with the last closures.

Surely this has been planned for several weeks?
Timetables available online?
Posters stations?

 

[jfollows]

Surely this has been planned for several weeks?
Timetables available online?
Posters stations?

You’re having a laugh! See earlier discussion at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/manchester-piccadilly-platform-12.261069/page-2#post-6894218

The plan was

• STAGE 3: Platforms 1 and 2 closed – 27 July- 17 August (3 weeks)
• STAGE 4: Platforms 3 and 4 closed – 17 August to 7 September (3 weeks)
• STAGE 5: Platforms 5 and 6 closed – 7 September 28 September (3 weeks)
• STAGE 6: Platforms 7 and 8 closed – 28 September to 20 October (3 weeks)

but that’s obviously changed.

The other thread does acknowledge some posters at stations, but the online timetables from Northern show services which have been cancelled for months. There is also information on the Northern Web site if you come across it. For the original plan, that is. I suspect most passengers only found out by trying to use a cancelled train, though - almost all the Alderley Edge terminators are cancelled plus Marple rush-hour services.

 

[The Planner]

Surely this has been planned for several weeks?
Timetables available online?
Posters stations?

No it was very last minute in terms of planning.

 

[Bungle965]

All of platform 9 as well, though this would take out 10, 11 and 12 so would be super disruptive - but contingency would allow it.

Which did indeed happen yesterday with the disruption on the WCML.

Realtime Trains | 1A52 1615 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 08/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1A52 1615 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 08/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[DarloRich]

Which did indeed happen yesterday with the disruption on the WCML.

Yesterday was interesting at Piccadilly. After the 1615 they were down to one an hour.

I missed the 1615 by a few minutes and was stuck until 1815. It was completely declassified, people were sat in the aisles, on the tables and in the toilets That train was so full they were turning people away. it was like something out of Dr Zhivago!

The train made an additional stop at Nuneaton where loads tried to get on but were left behind. Obviously a 9 car train.............

 

[Thomas6187]

The alterations for each set of platforms are only appearing about 2 weeks before the closure. Platform 7 and 8 will be out of action from Sunday 29th September for three weeks, but currently no alterations have been put in

 

[thealexweb]

Would there theoretical capacity to turn back at Stockport?

 

[The Planner]

Would there theoretical capacity to turn back at Stockport?

Nope, signalling doesn't allow it.

 

[jfollows]

Nope, signalling doesn't allow it.

Which is why the late-running TfW services turn back at Wilmslow, not Stockport.

Trains that turn back at Stockport have to run empty onto the viaduct and reverse over ground signals into the up platforms. It's not practical. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heaton-norris-denton-signals.258549/#post-6538505

 

[Bungle965]

Nope, signalling doesn't allow it.

This is getting off topic now, but I remember there was a series of drags that happened in the early 2000s with Class 47s to VTIC/XC (cannot remember which) at Stockport any ideas how that one worked?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2024 ==

You also have a couple of examples of Avanti services starting at Stockport, both ad-hoc and planned. One came off Longsight yesterday and started at Stockport due to issues and one planned this morning.

Realtime Trains | 9R26 0624 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 09/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 9R26 0624 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 09/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[plugwash]

Nope, signalling doesn't allow it.

AIUI while a turnback from the south in the station itself is not possible (turnback from the north *is* possible in either platform 1 or platform 3A), it's possible to drop the passengers in 3 or 4, run north onto the viaduct, reverse and renter the station on 1 or 2 to pick up new passengers.

On https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/macclesfield#T_STKP I think this means reversing between signals 44 and 117

 

[RailWonderer]

This is getting off topic now, but I remember there was a series of drags that happened in the early 2000s with Class 47s to VTIC/XC (cannot remember which) at Stockport any ideas how that one worked?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2024 ==

You also have a couple of examples of Avanti services starting at Stockport, both ad-hoc and planned. One came off Longsight yesterday and started at Stockport due to issues and one planned this morning.

Realtime Trains | 9R26 0624 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 09/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 9R26 0624 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 09/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

If Avanti did a better job of announcing these services and ran them, and if the tannoy at Piccadilly would announce these services, you'd have many people taking a local service to Stockport and changing there. Instead poor communication and a lack of commitment to these services is leading to terrible overcrowding on a service two hours after the last.

 

[plugwash]

you'd have many people taking a local service to Stockport and changing there.

And potentially causing terrible overcrowding on said local services.

I suspect this is another reason for not wanting to terminate trains at Stockport. An 11 car dumping out and the passengers trying to get onto a 2 car train would not be pretty.

 

[jfollows]

AIUI while a turnback from the south in the station itself is not possible (turnback from the north *is* possible in either platform 1 or platform 3A), it's possible to drop the passengers in 3 or 4, run north onto the viaduct, reverse and renter the station on 1 or 2 to pick up new passengers.

On https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/macclesfield#T_STKP I think this means reversing between signals 44 and 117

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stockport-sig-st2-116-118.271979/#post-6884941 for more information on this shunt move.

 

[The Planner]

This is getting off topic now, but I remember there was a series of drags that happened in the early 2000s with Class 47s to VTIC/XC (cannot remember which) at Stockport any ideas how that one worked?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2024 ==

You also have a couple of examples of Avanti services starting at Stockport, both ad-hoc and planned. One came off Longsight yesterday and started at Stockport due to issues and one planned this morning.

Realtime Trains | 9R26 0624 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 09/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 9R26 0624 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 09/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That is coming from Longsight, you couldn't do that move from Edgeley.

 

[RailWonderer]

And potentially causing terrible overcrowding on said local services.

I suspect this is another reason for not wanting to terminate trains at Stockport. An 11 car dumping out and the passengers trying to get onto a 2 car train would not be pretty.

In the South East these things are easier as local services are 5/10 car or 8/12 car commuter trains but for Manchester, Northern are stretched for units and can't run everything as 3 or 4 car like they should be doing and TfW are still running 2 car services to Manchester which should all be 3 and 4. Avanti could still run rail replacement buses though I suspect many would still gun for the local services and not be able to board a TfW that came the way from Cardiff.

Still there are still enough Stockport - Manchester services per hour I think the crowds could be evenly distributed if two services run within close timing of each other.