Manchester Metrolink second city crossing

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On 9th June, under their media notifications, TfGM have made preliminary arrangements for public consultations to be set in motion to discuss all matters of concern with this new city centre link, especially in relation to the sensetive relocation of the Cenotaph from its existing position in St. Peters Square.

UPDATE TO THE ABOVE


On the TfGM website, there are now full details of all the venues and dates where exhibitions will be held running from 27th June to 2nd August.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Dates, venues and exhibition times

Monday 27th June Manchester Town Hall 0900-1700
Wednesday 29th June Exchange Court Manchester Arndale 0900-2000
Thursday 30th June Victoria Station 0700-1900
Saturday 2nd July Exchange Court Manchester Arndale 0900-2000
Tuesday 5th July Victoria Station 0700-1900
Thurday 7th July Manchester Town Hall 0900-1700
Sunday 10th July Exchange Court Manchester Arndale 1000-1800
Monday 11th July Bridgewater Hall 0800-1730
Thursday 14th July Manchester Town Hall 0900-1700
Saturday 16th July Triangle 0900-1800
Tuesday 19th July Manchester Town Hall 0900-1700
Saturday 23rd July Triangle 0900-1800
Tuesday 2nd Aug Bridgewater Hall 0800-1730

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not sure if I necessarily agree with the proposals to move the Cenotaph in St. Peter's Square (Manchester).

There is just something about moving a war memorial because it is in the way that does not sit easy with me.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_downloads/StPetersSq.pdf

http://www.tfgm.com/Metrolink2cc/pdfs/2CC-Consultation-Brochure-020611.pdf

 

[WatcherZero]

Moving the memorial bothers you but the fact theres a crypt underneath the square doesnt?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My wife and I attended the first exhibition at Manchester Town Hall today and every single person who was seen before us were complaining about the relocation of the Cenotaph. The TfGM staff kept informing people that it was NOT a Metrolink decision to relocate the Cenotaph, but that of Manchester City Council. I was the only person this morning to talk to them about the new Exchange Square stop.

I had the feeling that there had been a determined effort on behalf of people adamantly opposed to the relocation of the Cenotaph to attend this first meeting as soon as it was opened in order to voice their opinions. The TfM staff seemed very disheartened by this.

Everyone attending was given a pack containing a 16pp A5 coloured leaflet with full information and a FREEPOST envelope for people to use to return the "response" form (pages 13/14).

 

[dggar]

I attended at about 13:30 today. There were 2 other members of the public there when I was there. I asked if the Northern Hub proposals had any impact on plans. The people from TfGM seem to have little idea what was in the Northern Hub proposals. They seemed to think it was just the upgrading of Victoria Station.

 

[northernrail]

Once the Cenotaph is moved and the crossing is built, no one will bring the cenotaph up again and the fact that it was moved will be forgotten

 

[radamfi]

What do Cenotaph campaigners propose instead? No new line?

 

[northernrail]

They would rather no new line was built and make the existing line more busy, then criticize Metrolink when the track wears down and roads are closed as it is replaced,

Its a lose lose situation

 

[Nym]

May I point some of you at the 'Oxford Road Redevelopment' thread in Inferstructure, it does present a possible alternative...

I aint typing all that again...

But basically, if we can't have the 2CC, terminate some trams at Oxford Road, and re-build the current platforms to be longer.

EDIT: Link... http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47835

There are also alternative routes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I attended at about 13:30 today. There were 2 other members of the public there when I was there. I asked if the Northern Hub proposals had any impact on plans. The people from TfGM seem to have little idea what was in the Northern Hub proposals. They seemed to think it was just the upgrading of Victoria Station.

I am not really surprised at their lack of knowledge on the matter of the Northern Hub proposals, as this exhibition was specifically aimed at the Metrolink second city crossing within a very limited remit.

As I said in an earlier posting, both my wife had attended from 1040 to 1120 today and it was only the tall middle-aged man who had any real knowledge.

 

[Nym]

Including those holding the exibition paul?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Including those holding the exibition paul?

Yes, as it was only those people who were there at the time when my wife and I visited the exhibition at Manchester Town Hall. It was stated that they were only here to answer questions on what all their large banner-posters and A5 literature was about. which was the second city crossing (I keep picturing THE SECOND COMING when I see this) for the Manchester Metrolink. One person after me was told that he should address Northern Hub queries to National Rail.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What do Cenotaph campaigners propose instead? No new line?

One of the families who were there had lost a son in Afghanistan and they often visit the Cenotaph to keep his memory fresh in their minds.

I very much doubt that they would consider your comments as an acceptable use of comparison. May I ask you what the Cenotaph conveys to you, by the wording of the comment that you have made in your posting.

 

[Nym]

Well, with the recent happenings thanks to the big people and Whitehall, there's a lot of families that will currently be visiting the cenotaph quite often. Initally I thought the 2nd 2nd City Crossing program was acceptable, but looking into it more now, I don't think having the cenotaph closed for any time is acceptable. I'm not against movement in principal, many have been moved before, but not having one for a few weeks will be quite distressing for a number of families.

There are some alternatives, they could loose the vehicle access round the front of the library, they could buy up and demolish the buildings (mainly abandoned) between Dickinson St, Oxford St, George St and the Cenotaph. Move the proposed station to the North East.

Either way, there are some things that shouldn't be changed in the name of progress as the're just too important to too many people, this is one of them.

 

[snail]

Have to say I don't get some of the arguments against moving the Cenotaph. It's original location was simply 'chosen' by the authorities at the time, it's not like the St Peter's Church cross that marks the site of the church and crypt. I would have thought moving it to a location with more space and a bit further away from the tram lines would be better than its current cramped location with a tram stop on one side and a road on the other.

 

[Nym]

No offence, but have you ever had anyone close to you die in a war abroad?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have to say I don't get some of the arguments against moving the Cenotaph. It's original location was simply 'chosen' by the authorities at the time, it's not like the St Peter's Church cross that marks the site of the church and crypt. I would have thought moving it to a location with more space and a bit further away from the tram lines would be better than its current cramped location with a tram stop on one side and a road on the other.

I am glad that you brought up the matter of St. Peter's Church cross as this will be staying exactly where it is and there are no plans to relocate it. The cross is shown in situ on all the artists impressions in the exhibition literature, opposite to the Central Library building. It can be seen on page 7 of the A5 size exhibition leaflet in the same picture showing the new site of the Cenotaph.

The next exhibition will be held tomorrow, Wednesday, 29th June, from 0900-2000, at Exchange Court Manchester Arndale, which is the site of a new tram stop on this second city crossing. Being away from the Cenotaph, more questions about this new stop and the new route will be asked of the TfGM staff wearing their distinctive green sweatshirts.

 

[Samtron2000]

The Cenotaphs placement in St Peter's Sq was originally temporary. Its intended destination was Albert Sq which required its statues to be shifted about in readiness for the Cenotaph. This never happend and the Cenotaph remains in its "temporary" home!

 

[snail]

No offence, but have you ever had anyone close to you die in a war abroad?

None taken (or intended), but I don't see what that has to do with moving the Cenotaph. Their memory is more, much more than the memorial; the memorial will still exist, just a few hundred meters away from the previous spot. Like I said about the church and crypt, if the memorial was an actual burial ground, not a figurative one then that's a very different consideration. The Cenotaph, OTOH, is where it is simply because that site was chosen when it was erected in 1924. It is a focus for remembering the war dead, a purpose it can still serve in another place.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Cenotaphs placement in St Peter's Sq was originally temporary. Its intended destination was Albert Sq which required its statues to be shifted about in readiness for the Cenotaph. This never happend and the Cenotaph remains in its "temporary" home!

Are you sure of this? My researches into old Council documentation show that the Piccadilly Gardens area was the first site to be considered as it was the site of the old Infirmary.

 

[Nym]

I don't see what that has to do with moving the Cenotaph. Their memory is more, much more than the memorial; the memorial will still exist, just a few hundred meters away from the previous spot.

It's not moving it that I see to be a problem, it's the time without it...

 

[snail]

It's not moving it that I see to be a problem, it's the time without it...

Ok, that I understand.

 

[Samtron2000]

Are you sure of this? My researches into old Council documentation show that the Piccadilly Gardens area was the first site to be considered as it was the site of the old Infirmary.

I read it a couple of times in different publications, but I wouldn't be able to say what. I'll have a quick scan of the likely contenders and update!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here we are. Likely that the info has been reproduced elsewhere

http://pmsa.cch.kcl.ac.uk/MR/MR-MCR07.htm

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I read it a couple of times in different publications, but I wouldn't be able to say what. I'll have a quick scan of the likely contenders and update!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here we are. Likely that the info has been reproduced elsewhere

http://pmsa.cch.kcl.ac.uk/MR/MR-MCR07.htm

Well, it would appear that BOTH our views were right in the preliminary siting discussions, which were finally overtaken by the site at St. Peter's Square. Thank you for going to the trouble of posting this link that any forum member can read which gives the history of the matter.

 

[snail]

Interesting find. So there were reservations about the current site even from the beginning! One interesting comment is the reference to the Bishop of Manchester having no objection to the Cross being moved (and that it was "in the way" of people viewing the unveiling of the new monument), though it appears that the prevailing view in the end was not to interfere with it.

 

[Welshman]

It was stated that they were only here to answer questions on what all their large banner-posters and A5 literature was about. which was the second city crossing (I keep picturing THE SECOND COMING when I see this) for the Manchester Metrolink.

If you get any information as to when this will happen, I'd be very grateful if you could email me beforehand.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if there will be postings from any other forum members who have not been to any of these exhibitions yet, as the last one is not until 2nd August at the Bridgewater Hall.

Has anyone any comments about the new planned station at Exchange Square?

 

[Nym]

Nah, I'm always working when the're on

 

[The Snap]

I wonder if there will be postings from any other forum members who have not been to any of these exhibitions yet, as the last one is not until 2nd August at the Bridgewater Hall.

Has anyone any comments about the new planned station at Exchange Square?

Looks like a decent enough location. It'll be busy all the time without doubt.

I'm interested to learn whether MPT will get the contract for this... .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just returned to the thread to say that the TfGM consultation period on the project came to an end on Friday, 9th September.