Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[driver_m]

Times are changing to reflect top speeds in December. Reliability seems to be still an issue from talking to the northern staff but getting a bit better. Passenger numbers showed big jumps on stations out of Liverpool too

 

[PDG1949]

St Helens Crossover under Corporation St. bridge.

 

[notlob.divad]

Timetable does appear to be updated in December, however from the limited viewing i have had via open train times, it appears that headline journey times barely change and in some case get slower. I can only assume that the upcoming Lime Street upgrade is the cause of this and after that there will an improvement in journey times

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul Gaskell has kindly sent photos of the overhead wiring for the crossover at St Helens Central.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/7215764979256038177

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you Paul.

 

[fflint]

Thanks for the info guys. It seems a shame that the timetable is not going to realise the true potential of the electrics, after all one of the raisons d'etre for electrification is to decrease time between towns and citys.I know there are other benefits - less track wear, ease of maintenance and less pollution (sounds a bit like - What have the electrics ever done for us?) but surely reducing journey times would be the most important reason for the money spent.

 

[Ploughman]

I am getting a 403 Unauthorised access warning when I tried to open the link to latest photos.

 

[jonesy3001]

I am getting a 403 Unauthorised access warning when I tried to open the link to latest photos.

Login to flickr and you wont get the 403

 

[Karl]

I am getting a 403 Unauthorised access warning when I tried to open the link to latest photos.

Try this link for Paul's album...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381

(It seems an extra 77 was somehow added to the original link.)

 

[Ploughman]

Thanks
That works.

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul Gaskell has kindly sent photos of the overhead wiring for the crossover at St Helens Central.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/7215764979256038177

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you Paul.

The link to Paul's album didn't work because I managed to add "77" to it, goodness knows how.

This link works:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381

Apologies

 

[DJH1971]

Bit of activity this morning at Roby station with the orange army working on the platform for the fourth track.

 

[cle]

Thanks for the info guys. It seems a shame that the timetable is not going to realise the true potential of the electrics, after all one of the raisons d'etre for electrification is to decrease time between towns and citys.I know there are other benefits - less track wear, ease of maintenance and less pollution (sounds a bit like - What have the electrics ever done for us?) but surely reducing journey times would be the most important reason for the money spent.

Only when savings are so dramatic will they be forced to share with the timetable.

We should admit it now, that any modest journey time savings these days are just added to padding now.

 

[8A Rail]

Bit of activity this morning at Roby station with the orange army working on the platform for the fourth track.

Even the station staff have no idea what the work is all about when I was at the station tonight!

 

[156441]

According to a reliable source from Network Rail the 'new platforms' at Roby and Huyton have failed clearance for 319's by 15mm and are having to be rebuilt to spec, hence the building work.
I assume they were designed prior to NR knowing Northern would be getting 319's!

 

[childwallblues]

According to a reliable source from Network Rail the 'new platforms' at Roby and Huyton have failed clearance for 319's by 15mm and are having to be rebuilt to spec, hence the building work.
I assume they were designed prior to NR knowing Northern would be getting 319's!

But built after Northern knew they were getting 319s!

 

[8A Rail]

According to a reliable source from Network Rail the 'new platforms' at Roby and Huyton have failed clearance for 319's by 15mm and are having to be rebuilt to spec, hence the building work.
I assume they were designed prior to NR knowing Northern would be getting 319's!

No they knew they getting them as far as I am aware. So on that basis, would that apply to the other three operational platforms at both stations too? If not, so why platform four different at both stations - this could suggest the track was laid in the in-correct place rather than platform edging? A strange one indeed!!

 

[notlob.divad]

Agreed, as far as I can interpret the only reason electrification happened at all was because the DfT saw the 319s where going to be freed up by the new Thameslink trains and so decided to send them north. Platform 3&4 was then decided on to speed up TPE journey times. So the 319s where known about already. The new CAF/ Hitachi rolling stock is another matter.

 

[8A Rail]

Spoke to non NR source today (i.e. contractors for Roby & Huyton Stations) confirmed Platform 4 needs realigning (or as "156441" suggested "clearances" not correct) to fit in with the Up Slow line which is in the correct place. I did ask (well sort of) why it happened in the first place, just say a shrug of the shoulders was the response which in layman's language suggest it was, well you figure! Platforms 1,2 and 3 at both stations are OK apparently.

 

[LDECRexile]

The other day family business gave me the chance to catch up on Liverpool-Manchester.

I have included some material from Liverpool South Parkway and Lime St which is probably out of scope. I will be pleased for others to use it in appropriate albums if they wish.

I've added the material to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The orange army was busy rebuilding P4 at both Huyton and Roby today (Roby more advanced).
To my eye, the new edge is lower than before, so presumably they will have to re-tarmac as well.
What a fiasco.
The 4th track has been extended east of Huyton station, up to a point near the bus station where an electrification mast is in the way.
A new signal base is in at Roby Jn.

 

[frodshamfella]

A little of track so to speak, but maybe of interest, was travelling into Lime Street on Wednesday evening on LM from Acton Bridge, we paused in the tunnel , and a Northern Railways Electric train pulled up along side to us and also stopped. My friend who I was with at the time, who has no interest in rail, looked at the Northern train, and said, "god that looks old !" I then said they have only been in the NW quite recently, but they were indeed second hand.

 

[8A Rail]

A little of track so to speak, but maybe of interest, was travelling into Lime Street on Wednesday evening on LM from Acton Bridge, we paused in the tunnel , and a Northern Railways Electric train pulled up along side to us and also stopped. My friend who I was with at the time, who has no interest in rail, looked at the Northern train, and said, "god that looks old !" I then said they have only been in the NW quite recently, but they were indeed second hand.

Still better than the Class 142's, Class 150's and dare I say the Class 156's too. The latter I do like but only when I'm able to get a table seat, although they are a good ride.

 

[QueensCurve]

A little of track so to speak, but maybe of interest, was travelling into Lime Street on Wednesday evening on LM from Acton Bridge.

Last time I did that journey it would have been in a Class 304.

Where is the old man emoji when you need it.

 

[8A Rail]

The orange army was busy rebuilding P4 at both Huyton and Roby today (Roby more advanced).
To my eye, the new edge is lower than before, so presumably they will have to re-tarmac as well.
What a fiasco.
The 4th track has been extended east of Huyton station, up to a point near the bus station where an electrification mast is in the way.
A new signal base is in at Roby Jn.

Really nothing change when I looked when travelling in and out of Liverpool yesterday. Clearly waiting for the blockade beginning of next month. What I did notice, there seem to be an access of track panels and crossover slips just to insert line four (up slow). At Roby Junction, there was 5 crossover slips which seem excessive for that location. I know some of the other lines will need realigning but still more than required though. May be some of the existing rails are already subject to excessive wear and tear may be?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Really nothing change when I looked when travelling in and out of Liverpool yesterday. Clearly waiting for the blockade beginning of next month. What I did notice, there seem to be an access of track panels and crossover slips just to insert line four (up slow). At Roby Junction, there was 5 crossover slips which seem excessive for that location. I know some of the other lines will need realigning but still more than required though. May be some of the existing rails are already subject to excessive wear and tear may be?

"crossover slips"? do you mean half sets of switches? And were they all the same length, as there are changes at Huyton Junction too ...

 

[LDECRexile]

Phil Wieland has kindly sent two photos of work in progress at Huyton.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157650238941151

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you Phil.

 

[8A Rail]

"crossover slips"? do you mean half sets of switches? And were they all the same length, as there are changes at Huyton Junction too ...

Yes and of course I am aware of the change's at Huyton Junction too. However there are 4 sets right next to Huyton Station too, see:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/36302426281/in/album-72157683639340646/ .

 

[LDECRexile]

I haven't noticed anyone (press, railway press, Northern or even professional sneerers) commenting on the impact or otherwise of the electrification of Lime St-Wigan, Lime St Manchester Airport and Lime St-Warrington BQ.

If there has been published analysis I hope someone will draw my attention to it through this public channel.

I've therefore done an initial, crude analysis of what changed.

I have gone through the official customer numbers for "our" stations as reproduced in Wikipedia, ie Edge Hill to Bryn inclusive and Whiston to Eccles inclusive, comparing the numbers for 2014-5 with 2016-7.

1. The numbers at every one of these stations increased, ranging from +2% at Bryn, Whiston and Eccles to +12% at Wavertree Technology Park, followed by 11% at Lea Green and 9% at St Helens Central, Eccleston Park and Rainhill.
2. The aggregate increase for Whiston to Eccles was +7%
3. The aggregate increase for Edge Hill to Bryn was 8%

4. Lime Street increased by +2%
5. Man Vic, Oxford Rd, Piccadilly and Man Airport all increased by +5% each.

What, if anything, has this to do with electrification?

Looking at each station's entry in Wikipedia most had hitherto falling numbers, so something positive happened.

The "Sparks Effect" is reckoned to come about because of better rolling stock ("tick") better publicity ("tick"), better speeds ("cross"), better reliability ("?") and better green credentials ("tick").

Points to consider:

a. We are still hampered by incompleteness, eg:

Liverpool-Blackpool by wizzo electric trains? Uh-oh
Liverpool-Glasgow by wizzo electric trains? Uh-oh
Speeds remain as per Class 142.

b. This might have happened anyway. Yes, but the trend was otherwise.

c. The year-on-year reflected un-buggering the service, yes, but there is still lots going on, eg Lime St disruption.

Hmm...

 

[LDECRexile]

8A Rail has kindly sent three photos of Huyton.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157683639340646

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you 8A Rail.

 

[Foggycorner]

Yes and of course I am aware of the change's at Huyton Junction too. However there are 4 sets right next to Huyton Station too, see:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/36302426281/in/album-72157683639340646/ .

what you can see in the photo's is only 2 ends of points one right hand and one left hand all on prefab sleeper units, each end made up of 3 sets a switch end a mid section and a crossing nose end