Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LDECRexile]

Family commitments enabled me to make a flying visit to Roby and Huyton today, and to drive along the M57.

1. Lots of cherrypickers on the go.
2. Lots of danglies gone up between Roby Junction and Huyton Station
3. Lots of mast and dangly progress in Huyton Junction area, including a TGBU erected near the junction itself.
4. No wires up Roby Jct-Huyton Jct
5. Wires look more complete immediately east of Huyton Quarry
6. Full set of wires up over Wigan Branch M57 viaduct.

Family commitments meant I couldn't stop long or visit Rainhill, Sankey Viaduct or Earlestown.

Photos later.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

1. Lots of cherrypickers on the go.
2. Lots of danglies gone up between Roby Junction and Huyton Station
3. Lots of mast and dangly progress in Huyton Junction area, including a TGBU erected near the junction itself.
4. No wires up Roby Jct-Huyton Jct
5. Wires look more complete immediately east of Huyton Quarry
6. Full set of wires up over Wigan Branch M57 viaduct.

Must be hardy souls doing all that in the frost and (recent) snow.
Will try and have a look tomorrow myself.

 

[8A Rail]

5. Wires look more complete immediately east of Huyton Quarry

Took Kaiser (German Shepherd) for a walk a couple of hours ago and all wires in place at Whiston Station which would suggest wiring complete now going east from Huyton Quarry.

 

[HUY2ROB]

Must be hardy souls doing all that in the frost and (recent) snow.
Will try and have a look tomorrow myself.

If you do, be very careful.It was very icy on the pavements between Huyton bus station and Huyton Quarry.Lots of new portals and two by the telephone exchange .They were working by the bus station at 1600.

 

[DJH1971]

Whilst looking at any progress at St Helens Junction today, I was talking to a bloke dealing with directing people to rail replacement buses that they are looking to start electric services between Liverpool to Manchester Airport from 8th February.

 

[LDECRexile]

Whilst looking at any progress at St Helens Junction today, I was talking to a bloke dealing with directing people to rail replacement buses that they are looking to start electric services between Liverpool to Manchester Airport from 8th February.

Interesting, thank you. Any photos?

 

[DJH1971]

Interesting, thank you. Any photos?

None, as there was nothing to report happening at St Helens Junction.

As I mentioned yesterday, there was still only one portal up at Sankey Viaduct, although I have a feeling that this will change shortly.

Well, only a matter of weeks now then!

 

[LDECRexile]

13 photos taken today added here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/16064884336/in/set-72157648494725811/

Newest first.

 

[kevconnor]

13 photos taken today added here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/16064884336/in/set-72157648494725811/

Newest first.

Some excellent photos there, I always think it is ironic to see a pacer running alongside where the electrification program is being developed, they are the complete antithesis of developments & improvements in the railways.

 

[DJH1971]

13 photos taken today added here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/16064884336/in/set-72157648494725811/

Newest first.

What is a TGBU?

 

[swt_passenger]

What is a TGBU?

"thundering great big 'uns"

A specialist technical term introduced in the caption here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/16064884336/in/photostream/

 

[LDECRexile]

What is a TGBU?

Please see captions to photos 1947, 1934 and 1932. A close study of these beasts appears in photos 1907-1915, though that was before the terminology was adopted.

When I used to work for a living I rated conferences by the number of PUAs I learned, which was typically in inverse proportion to the actual value of the conference.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some excellent photos there, I always think it is ironic to see a pacer running alongside where the electrification program is being developed, they are the complete antithesis of developments & improvements in the railways.

Thanks for the kind remark.

Don't you think the contrast shows progress at its best?

Dave

 

[Bevan Price]

The sharp radii seem an unavoidable limitation of the site, unless serious money was spent. And there presumably has to be a neutral section so that either the WCML or the L&M can be switched off without requiring each other to be switched off too.

There is also approach control (or approach release) signalling which forces trains to slow almost to crawling speed, before the signal changes from red to green (or yellow) to permit trains to enter the junctions & curves.

 

[DJH1971]

Please see captions to photos 1947, 1934 and 1932. A close study of these beasts appears in photos 1907-1915, though that was before the terminology was adopted.

When I used to work for a living I rated conferences by the number of PUAs I learned, which was typically in inverse proportion to the actual value of the conference.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Thanks for the kind remark.

Don't you think the contrast shows progress at its best?

Dave

Absolutely, without question.

Just need to get a bit of a move on with the Wigan line now.

 

[Starmill]

No, they run in the same class 185 times (a few of the services are still 185s).
Capacity has increased though.

I don't think they do - they are still timed for 100mph max but with the better acceleration. I don't think the /4s are operating at 110 at 110 at all though, despite the theoretical capability.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some significant progress over Christmas:
- wiring complete at Wavertree (Down at least) and over the M6 (Up): wiring is now continuous Edge Hill-Roby Jn and Carr Mill-Ince Moss Jn
- catenary wire up through Rainhill (Down) via the headspans and over the M57 (continuous run Huyton Quarry-Collins Green and Whiston Lane-Ravenhead)
- nearly all portals up Roby Jn-Huyton Jn, and most of the registration gear west of Huyton station

There only appear to be 2 missing masts/portals - one at Huyton station (east end of P1) and another south of Carr Mill.
Plus the Sankey Viaduct (3 more to do).
A few booms/portals are still needed, at Huyton and Springs Branch.
Nothing obviously new at Earlestown or Victoria, although as I have noted on the Blackpool thread there are new bases installed from Salford Central towards Salford Crescent.

Test coach Mentor (OHLE test coach) was also out and about over the route today, though I'm not sure if this is linked to the new wiring.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U36257/2014/12/29/advanced
It was routed Crewe-Earlestown-Lime St, then a round trip via the Chat Moss route to Manchester Oxford Road and back, then via Earlestown to Crewe and on to Derby.

 

[DJH1971]

Some significant progress over Christmas:
- wiring complete at Wavertree (Down at least) and over the M6 (Up): wiring is now continuous Edge Hill-Roby Jn and Carr Mill-Ince Moss Jn
- catenary wire up through Rainhill (Down) via the headspans and over the M57 (continuous run Huyton Quarry-Collins Green and Whiston Lane-Ravenhead)
- nearly all portals up Roby Jn-Huyton Jn, and most of the registration gear west of Huyton station

There only appear to be 2 missing masts/portals - one at Huyton station (east end of P1) and another south of Carr Mill.
Plus the Sankey Viaduct (3 more to do).
A few booms/portals are still needed, at Huyton and Springs Branch.
Nothing obviously new at Earlestown or Victoria, although as I have noted on the Blackpool thread there are new bases installed from Salford Central towards Salford Crescent.

Test coach Mentor (OHLE test coach) was also out and about over the route today, though I'm not sure if this is linked to the new wiring.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U36257/2014/12/29/advanced
It was routed Crewe-Earlestown-Lime St, then a round trip via the Chat Moss route to Manchester Oxford Road and back, then via Earlestown to Crewe and on to Derby.

Cracking news, if the date of 8th February is to go off.

 

[snowball]

Test coach Mentor (OHLE test coach) was also out and about over the route today, though I'm not sure if this is linked to the new wiring.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U36257/2014/12/29/advanced
It was routed Crewe-Earlestown-Lime St, then a round trip via the Chat Moss route to Manchester Oxford Road and back, then via Earlestown to Crewe and on to Derby.

Perhaps it was booked some time ago, when somebody expected that by today all the wires would be in place.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Apologies if it is already among the 226 pages of this thread but will there be any significant increase in journey times between the two cities? It has always seemed pretty poor to take 45 minutes or so for the 35 miles. Surely at least a 70mph average and a journey time around half an hour is not too much to ask. I don't think the timings have changed much over the past century. How long did The Rocket take to make the journey?

 

[AM9]

Apologies if it is already among the 226 pages of this thread but will there be any significant increase in journey times between the two cities? It has always seemed pretty poor to take 45 minutes or so for the 35 miles. Surely at least a 70mph average and a journey time around half an hour is not too much to ask. I don't think the timings have changed much over the past century. How long did The Rocket take to make the journey?

Did you mean "increase in journey times" or was that a freudian slip?
I think the general consensus is that even running with prehistoric 319s with their iron-aged underpowered DC motors on just 25% of the axles, there should be a useful acceleration in journey times over the existing service times.

Having said that, are the lines between Liverpool and Manchester up to speeds of 90-100mph over much of their length, as to average 70mph with 2-4 stops, there wouldn't be much time for doing less than 90mph.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Did you mean "increase in journey times" or was that a freudian slip?
I think the general consensus is that even running with prehistoric 319s with their iron-aged underpowered DC motors on just 25% of the axles, there should be a useful acceleration in journey times over the existing service times.

More of a Fred & Ian slip - I meant increase in speed, decrease in journey times. If the 319s take the ghost of FCC and the spirit of Thameslink with them though it probably will be an increase in journey times.

 

[Green Lane]

Apologies if it is already among the 226 pages of this thread but will there be any significant increase in journey times between the two cities? It has always seemed pretty poor to take 45 minutes or so for the 35 miles.

There are people on here who know far more of the ins-and-outs than me, but as of 2014 existing express diesel services are already doing Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Victoria in as little as 32 minutes.

e.g. the 09:12 departing Lime Street now arrives Manchester Victoria 09:44.

I think this is due to the third track now in place at Roby & Huyton, allowing stopping services to be overtaken?

As prior to 2014 indeed it was not that fast if memory serves correctly.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have done the 31.75 mile journey (once!) in exactly 30 minutes for an average of 63.5mph, in a 185 (booked for 32 minutes).
You are not going to do any better with electric traction on the 90mph line.
There is an awkward 60mph PSR at Astley, and excruciatingly slow arrival speeds over the best part of 2 miles at each end.
The usual problem at the moment is platforming at Victoria, Oxford Road and Lime St.
The stoppers taking 63/64 minutes should do better with 319s though.

 

[AM9]

I have done the 31.75 mile journey (once!) in exactly 30 minutes for an average of 63.5mph, in a 185 (booked for 32 minutes).
You are not going to do any better with electric traction on the 90mph line.
There is an awkward 60mph PSR at Astley, and excruciatingly slow arrival speeds over the best part of 2 miles at each end.
The usual problem at the moment is platforming at Victoria, Oxford Road and Lime St.
The stoppers taking 63/64 minutes should do better with 319s though.

And both Lime St and Victoria should be a lot less smoky. Can anybody say what proportion of services will be diesel when all the current electrification is complete?

 

[LDECRexile]

Had a great day out today in the company of GRALISTAIR all day and LNW-GW JOINT for part of the day.

Two things to add to LNW's report, both of which we saw after we left him at Lime Street.

Bad news: three mastless bases to the west of the tracks at the very point where the Wigan Branch joins the WCML at Springs Branch Junction.

Good news: several wires up between Ravenhead sidings and St Helens Station Junction on the Wigan Branch. (We could only see over the southbound track.)

20 photos added here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Will update Progressometer tomorrow.

 

[Bevan Price]

And both Lime St and Victoria should be a lot less smoky. Can anybody say what proportion of services will be diesel when all the current electrification is complete?

In most hours, and if service levels are unchanged, Lime St should have just 4 diesel service arrivals & departures each hour - the services on the CLC line via Warrington Central.

Eventually - after completion of Trans Pennine electrification - Manchester Victoria will retain dmu services on the Calder Valley, Blackburn/Clitheroe & Wigan Wallgate via Atherton lines.

 

[8A Rail]

There are people on here who know far more of the ins-and-outs than me, but as of 2014 existing express diesel services are already doing Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Victoria in as little as 32 minutes.
e.g. the 09:12 departing Lime Street now arrives Manchester Victoria 09:44.
I think this is due to the third track now in place at Roby & Huyton, allowing stopping services to be overtaken?
As prior to 2014 indeed it was not that fast if memory serves correctly.

Trains going east as you are indicating that cannot be overtaken between Roby and Huyton as not possible as the fourth (up Prescot) line is not connected at either end nor will be for a 18/24 months. They can of course be overtaken on the down lines between those two locations. I think may be the reason for faster journeys, could be including better timetable planning and slicker junctions (e.g. Huyton Junction)

 

[Green Lane]

Trains going east as you are indicating that cannot be overtaken between Roby and Huyton as not possible as the fourth (up Prescot) line is not connected at either end nor will be for a 18/24 months. They can of course be overtaken on the down lines between those two locations. I think may be the reason for faster journeys, could be including better timetable planning and slicker junctions (e.g. Huyton Junction)

Thanks for the correction and further information. I am sure you are correct and I will also be able to see the new arrangements first-hand today as I will be travelling the route a bit later this morning. Cheers!

 

[LDECRexile]

Progressometer updated below.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In most hours, and if service levels are unchanged, Lime St should have just 4 diesel service arrivals & departures each hour - the services on the CLC line via Warrington Central.

5 if you include the TPE 185 via Victoria (until TP North wired).
7 if you include the Blackpool (until Preston-Blackpool wired), plus its LPY leg.
If the Halton Curve comes back, that will likely generate some DMU traffic from Chester.
But 5tph should go electric in 2015 (the 4 stoppers via Huyton plus Man Airport).
The Helsby-EPort DMUs also find their way onto the patch currently, don't know how that will work in the future.