Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LNW-GW Joint]

They will have to be cleared on the routes they are planned to work, including the usual diversions.
Can't imagine a problem on the WCML, but there are various alternative routes around Glasgow to consider.
The diversionary strategy should be fairly simple on the main line - terminate and catch a bus!
I can't see them being towed via the S&C or GSW, which is what Pendolinos can do (though not used much lately).

 

[Class377/5]

Would the trains have to go through a safety case as a new sub-class of 350 , or would there be no need with 350's already used by LM?

I dont think so, the existing 350's have also run the line so should have been pre-checked for compatability. One issue could be length of commisioning, I understand Siemens will be doing a lot of commisioning work on their test track but TPE will still probably want to give them a good thrashing and check for snagging issues before formally accepting them.

Although the route is cleared for 350/1 Network Rail enforced an assessment of the 350/2 for testing. Last I'd heard on the subject is that it was believed the 350/4 were included in the 350/2 safety case.

Is that by December Timetable change or by the end of December?

If its for the start of December then theyve beaten the more recent pessimistic forecasts that they would only have one by then. Previously the first delivery was pencilled in for something like December 2nd or 3rd.

Wording is

"Three class 350/4 ... will be delivered to the UK by December this year, with all ten in traffic by the may timetable change in 2014".

Note the different wording used. Three delivered before December but not commissioned is my understanding. Especially when the way they word it the May part.

 

[edwin_m]

The 350 safety case as far as I recall covered the entire electrified network apart from the ECML. 350/4 would need some kind of approval but more of a risk assessment based on differences with the other sub-classes, rather than starting from scratch with a new safety case.

 

[terryc]

Got the Rail Replacement bus tonight from Oxford Road to NleW.
It was interesting to hear from the MCO staff that they reckoned that there was "only two more days to go" before everything was back to normal towards WBQ and Chester. However, the bus driver had a different opinion, and that the replacement road service was back up for tender, and there was still at least "a week or so" still to go.
Judging from the outward journey where the netting was still absent from the Chat Moss Inn for a couple of miles Eastwards towards Astley, coupled with the info. on the National Rail Website, that the latter is probably more accurate.
Either way, it appears that the end is finally in sight for this section

 

[SeanG]

Don't know if this has been covered, apologies if so, but TPE are saying that their 350s will have a top speed of 100mph.

Why is this? We already know that 350s can do 110mph, as London Midland's do so. Surely this extra 10mph would be of some use on the WCML. Or even if it wouldn't be currently, it would futureproof them slightly?

 

[Eagle]

Don't know if this has been covered, apologies if so, but TPE are saying that their 350s will have a top speed of 100mph.

The new 350/4s will be capable of 110 from the outset.

The 100 mph timing is only temporary, while they're still intermingled with the 185s. When all the 350s are here in May, then they can be timed for 110 mph.

 

[steverailer]

All earth and ATF wires are up, quite a few runs still need splicing together and a lot of sps is still required. Chat moss should be wires asap. Then there is a lot of cantilevers to fit and heights and staggers to complete. Can still see a good 2 months left at least

 

[Class377/5]

Don't know if this has been covered, apologies if so, but TPE are saying that their 350s will have a top speed of 100mph.

Why is this? We already know that 350s can do 110mph, as London Midland's do so. Surely this extra 10mph would be of some use on the WCML. Or even if it wouldn't be currently, it would futureproof them slightly?

They are built for 110mph but currently 350's are not permitted to run at that speed in multiple. Due to planned multiple working they are being timed for 100mph at the moment.

LM is working with NR to get 110mph certificate but R are concerned about 12 car 110mph work with three pans up delaying the whole process as LM want 12 car authorized and TPE are waiting on M to get the permission.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Signs today in Olive Mount cutting of activity, several bases have appeared adjacent to the Bootle Branch junction and the head shunt. The picture was taken from Mill Lane bridge looking west, there is no sign of activity looking east yet.

 

[DJH1971]

Signs today in Olive Mount cutting of activity, several bases have appeared adjacent to the Bootle Branch junction and the head shunt. The picture was taken from Mill Lane bridge looking west, there is no sign of activity looking east yet.

Are there any actual mast bases there?

 

[chorleyjeff]

The only problem was you couldn't hear yourself speak! This was reinforced when we took a trip on the Wirksworth branch the other week!

And if you were in the motorised coach the fumes from the engine seeping into the passenger compartment were a bit of a turn off. They provided a nasty travel experience when under power but OK when coasting.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are there any actual mast bases there?

Yes, about half a dozen on the Up (eastbound) line, starting immediately east of Wavertree station.
This is the first evidence of electrification on the Earlestown-Edge Hill section.

Catenary wires are still missing on the Up approaching Ordsall Lane, and on both lines at Glazebury (no visible progress in the last week, although they might have been tidying up the earlier work).
Plenty of excavation work going on on the viaduct between Ordsall Lane and Salford Central.

On the Wigan branch the mast count is up to 100 west of St Helens Central, with some portal structures now erected around Eccleston Park.
Numerous piled metal foundations are now in east of St Helens.

Joke announcement of the day at Lime St (the ubiquitous Anne): "Due to today's wet weather, platform surfaces may be slippery..."
This in the blazing sun, hasn't rained for days.

 

[DJH1971]

Yes, about half a dozen on the Up (eastbound) line, starting immediately east of Wavertree station.
This is the first evidence of electrification on the Earlestown-Edge Hill section.

Catenary wires are still missing on the Up approaching Ordsall Lane, and on both lines at Glazebury (no visible progress in the last week, although they might have been tidying up the earlier work).
Plenty of excavation work going on on the viaduct between Ordsall Lane and Salford Central.

On the Wigan branch the mast count is up to 100 west of St Helens Central, with some portal structures now erected around Eccleston Park.
Numerous piled metal foundations are now in east of St Helens.

Joke announcement of the day at Lime St (the ubiquitous Anne): "Due to today's wet weather, platform surfaces may be slippery..."
This in the blazing sun, hasn't rained for days.

Brilliant news to hear!

 

[507 001]

The OHLE MPV is currently sat on the down manchester at Eccles, just seen it from the 602

 

[DJH1971]

The OHLE MPV is currently sat on the down manchester at Eccles, just seen it from the 602

Good to know they're getting very close to finishing off phase 1.

 

[steverailer]

Good to know they're getting very close to finishing off phase 1.

Finishing off putting the wires, but there's still alot of sps and cantilevers and other stuff to go up. Wouldn't say very close, just close

 

[snowball]

Finishing off putting the wires, but there's still alot of sps and cantilevers and other stuff to go up. Wouldn't say very close, just close

What are sps?

 

[steverailer]

What are sps?

Small part steelwork. Insulators, brackets, clamps etc

 

[iandavid59]

I heard that the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport and the Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western lines will be closed on Sundays from January 2014 till May 2014.

 

[DJH1971]

I heard that the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport and the Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western lines will be closed on Sundays from January 2014 till May 2014.

I take it they will still be running on Saturdays?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I heard that the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport and the Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western lines will be closed on Sundays from January 2014 till May 2014.

Maybe just closed west of Earlestown?
Chester-Manchester services (and the new Manchester-Scotland services) should be OK over Chat Moss.
Airport services could go via the CLC route.

 

[iandavid59]

According to open train times its definitely buses from Liverpool to Wigan NW and buses from Liverpool to Man Vic from Sunday 5th Jan till May 2014.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/departures/LIV/2014-01-05/0803

 

[OxtedL]

Maybe just closed west of Earlestown?
Chester-Manchester services (and the new Manchester-Scotland services) should be OK over Chat Moss.
Airport services could go via the CLC route.

Navigating around the online Engineering Access statement, it looks as though most Sundays it is indeed just the line West of Earlestown (and Wigan-Huyton) that is closed.

There are a couple (~late Jan/ early Feb) where Eccles to Weaste is also closed, with Chester trains directed via Altrincham, and presumably Scotland services via Bolton.

After all this there's what looks like a blockade 5th to 13th July with similar limits to the above possessions, while they remodel Huyton-Roby. Then some more Sundays in July and August for any follow up work.

And what looks like it might be a possesion for connecting everything up at the Liverpool end on the 31st August (all of this being in 2014).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Catenary and contact wires are now finally up over the gap in the Up line near Ordsall Lane.
Still missing over the final long 1-mile gap at Glazebury.
I notice the line will be closed on Sundays 15/22/29 September, so they are officially "overrunning".
Chester-WBQ-Manchester diverting via Crewe for a change.
....

Daft announcement of the day (Crewe-Chester Voyager):

Welcome to this Virgin Train to (silence).
Calling at the following principal stations (silence).

It came round twice to make sure we hadn't missed it the first time...:cry:

 

[DJH1971]

Any more mast bases in place after Wavertree yet?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any more mast bases in place after Wavertree yet?

I counted 10 on the Up (didn't do the full circuit today).
Not sure how they will fix the supports on the Up (north) side in the main part of the Olive Mount cutting, which is very close to the running line.
Maybe they will cantilever over both tracks from the south side where there is a lot more room (where there used to be two more tracks).
In Lime St cutting around 1960 they excavated the cutting walls and fastened portal structures in them directly, saving a lot of steelwork.
There's another (shorter) sheer sandstone cutting like that near Thatto Heath on the Wigan line.

 

[M60lad]

Where's the information come from that the Chat Moss line is closed for the next couple of Sundays and Arriva Trains Wales services diverting via Crewe only I can't find any info online

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Where's the information come from that the Chat Moss line is closed for the next couple of Sundays and Arriva Trains Wales services diverting via Crewe only I can't find any info online

I think I got some of that wrong.
The lines closed on the 15th are Chester-Warrington and Piccadilly-Airport/Stockport (this one also on 22nd/29th).
The Chat Moss line itself seems to be open.
The Northern web site lists all the Chat Moss line stations as "affected", but trains seem to be running and turning back at Oxford Road.
Sorry for the confusion on that.
The Crewe "diversion" for ATW was posted on the Chester station PIS yesterday.
As far as I can tell the ATW Manchester trains have simply been replaced by a bus rather than diverted.

 

[iandavid59]

Chat Moss line is open now on Sundays till January 5th when it then shuts until May 2014 with buses replacing trains from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road and Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western.

Then on the 5th July till the 14th July there is a full blockade between Earlestown and Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western and Liverpool Lime Street for resignalling at St Helens and Huyton Jn and Roby remodelling.

The lines are blocked from Earlestown to Bootle Branch Jn and Springs Bank Jn to Huyton Jn all lines.

 

[Bevan Price]

According to open train times its definitely buses from Liverpool to Wigan NW and buses from Liverpool to Man Vic from Sunday 5th Jan till May 2014.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/departures/LIV/2014-01-05/0803

How reilable is open train times for dates in the new timetable December 2013 onwards) ? When I looked earlier tonight, it was showing full weekday services operating on 25 and 26 December 2013.