Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[hairyhandedfool]

The wires are expected to be up well before the December timetable change, so of those two, the former is most certainly the more likely, but that does not, on it's own, make it likely.

 

[WatcherZero]

At the moment timetable change is what something like the 9th December and first delivery is planned for the 2nd December (though they did intend them to start arriving a couple of months earlier the contract took longer to finalise than planned).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Virgin Pendolino diversions or ECS are the most likely first serious users of the new wires, plus LM 350s on loan to TPE for training.
Electric locos might put in an appearance too.
Not much incentive for NT to send out a 323 for a spin, but you never know.
I don't think they will be unused for long.

 

[Whistler40145]

I would have thought that Network Rail would have been sending one of their Class 86 Mobile Load Banks prior to other traction being used.

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[DJH1971]

I would have thought that Network Rail would have been sending one of their Class 86 Mobile Load Banks prior to other traction being used.

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They most probably will. Makes sense after all.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I would have thought that Network Rail would have been sending one of their Class 86 Mobile Load Banks prior to other traction being used.
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Yes but that's proving the equipment, not "revenue earning".

 

[bluenoxid]

Revenue earning is most likely to be a diverted Pendolino in my book. Are there any late evening services that come from Scotland that could use this route?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The only reason I could see for Virgin using the route is if the line through Crewe and/or Warrington is closed.

 

[DJH1971]

Revenue earning is most likely to be a diverted Pendolino in my book. Are there any late evening services that come from Scotland that could use this route?

Well, now that TPE are going to use 350/4's for Manchester to Scotland services, it could be a good idea to start running Liverpool to Scotland services too.

 

[edwin_m]

At the moment timetable change is what something like the 9th December and first delivery is planned for the 2nd December (though they did intend them to start arriving a couple of months earlier the contract took longer to finalise than planned).

The intention is to run via Wigan instead of via Bolton but with 185s initially, and gradually substitute 350s as they become available. Any accelerations resulting from better performance of a 350 will therefore have to await a later timetable change.

 

[Eagle]

Ah, so that's why TPE are saying that their new trains are 100 mph, and will do 110 mph in the future. They need to wait until they can get all the diagrams to be 350-only before they can introduce 110 mph timings.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At the moment timetable change is what something like the 9th December and first delivery is planned for the 2nd December (though they did intend them to start arriving a couple of months earlier the contract took longer to finalise than planned).

How many of these new units need to be delivered to fully start running the complete new service patterns to be shown in the timetable commencing 9th December ?

 

[edwin_m]

Ah, so that's why TPE are saying that their new trains are 100 mph, and will do 110 mph in the future. They need to wait until they can get all the diagrams to be 350-only before they can introduce 110 mph timings.

There was also talk (it was an article in Modern Railways a few months back) of fine-tuning the capacity by keeping 185s on some trips. If that is so then either some timings will be slower than others or they will all remain timed for 185s!

 

[DJH1971]

Virgin Pendolino diversions or ECS are the most likely first serious users of the new wires, plus LM 350s on loan to TPE for training.
Electric locos might put in an appearance too.
Not much incentive for NT to send out a 323 for a spin, but you never know.
I don't think they will be unused for long.

Any more news on the 319's coming up here?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any more news on the 319's coming up here?

We'll have to wait for the Thameslink deal with Siemens to be finalised, and then for the details of the resultant 319 cascade to be confirmed (how many, when, with what upgrades etc).
There might still be an interim solution for the first year or two of NW electric working (only a small fleet needed until the Bolton line is wired in 2016).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

We'll have to wait for the Thameslink deal with Siemens to be finalised, and then for the details of the resultant 319 cascade to be confirmed (how many, when, with what upgrades etc).
There might still be an interim solution for the first year or two of NW electric working (only a small fleet needed until the Bolton line is wired in 2016).

My underlining. Any thoughts on what form such a solution might take? As far as I'm aware, the only options would be the 317s currently in store or a handful of 319s released by the 377/6s...

 

[DJH1971]

We'll have to wait for the Thameslink deal with Siemens to be finalised, and then for the details of the resultant 319 cascade to be confirmed (how many, when, with what upgrades etc).
There might still be an interim solution for the first year or two of NW electric working (only a small fleet needed until the Bolton line is wired in 2016).

I heard they were going to refurbished and fitted with air-con.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I heard they were going to refurbished and fitted with air-con.

Yes but that was three years ago, maybe four by now.
No plans have been announced by either DfT, TOCs or ROSCOs.
No doubt Northern's contract extension currently being negotiated will cover the job of finding stock for the end of 2014.

 

[DJH1971]

Yes but that was three years ago, maybe four by now.
No plans have been announced by either DfT, TOCs or ROSCOs.
No doubt Northern's contract extension currently being negotiated will cover the job of finding stock for the end of 2014.

I also remember hearing issues regarding compatibility with the new OHL system in an article too.

 

[D365]

I also remember hearing issues regarding compatibility with the new OHL system in an article too.

Been discussed before, at most all that is needed is new pantographs... Hopefully at some point soon a full fleet refurbishment will take place, similar to that being trialled on 317722.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is now a continuous run of wires from about mp24 3/4 (west of the M62 bridge) to beyond mp29 (just before the M602 roundabout).
Not fully finished by any means, and there is a short gap on the eastbound line through Eccles station.
Still only a single wire run at Ordsall Lane, where they seem to be constructing the last mast base over Trinity Way bridge.
I counted about a dozen mast bases still under construction east of Glazebury, but the masts have gone up quickly on most of the rest.

NR has relaid the East and West junctions at Earlestown, and the track through Newton-le-Willows station.
I noticed the ground signal for the now non-existent turnout for Parkside Colliery was still shining brightly in the new ballast!
Newton-le-Willows has gained PIS announcements by "Anne", but unusually she announced my train was for "Oxford Road and Piccadilly" with no mention of Manchester - this is not correct, surely?

On the Wigan line, I counted 60-70 mast bases in situ between Huyton and St Helens, including a pair just south of St Helens station (close to the Glass Museum).
Nothing much new at Huyton, but a contractor's "village" has gone up near Roby, no doubt for the 3/4-tracking job.

 

[DJH1971]

There is now a continuous run of wires from about mp24 3/4 (west of the M62 bridge) to beyond mp29 (just before the M602 roundabout).
Not fully finished by any means, and there is a short gap on the eastbound line through Eccles station.
Still only a single wire run at Ordsall Lane, where they seem to be constructing the last mast base over Trinity Way bridge.
I counted about a dozen mast bases still under construction east of Glazebury, but the masts have gone up quickly on most of the rest.

NR has relaid the East and West junctions at Earlestown, and the track through Newton-le-Willows station.
I noticed the ground signal for the now non-existent turnout for Parkside Colliery was still shining brightly in the new ballast!
Newton-le-Willows has gained PIS announcements by "Anne", but unusually she announced my train was for "Oxford Road and Piccadilly" with no mention of Manchester - this is not correct, surely?

On the Wigan line, I counted 60-70 mast bases in situ between Huyton and St Helens, including a pair just south of St Helens station (close to the Glass Museum).
Nothing much new at Huyton, but a contractor's "village" has gone up near Roby, no doubt for the 3/4-tracking job.

No doubt the mast bases will be heading west from Earlestown and north east from St Helens Central before long!

 

[Darren R]

Noticed the following advisory on NRE:

Incident created
18/06/2013 12:07
Last updated
18/06/2013 14:11

Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly / Manchester Victoria, Eccles, Patricroft, Newton-le-Willows, Earlestown, St Helens Junction, Huyton, Wavertree Tech Park & Liverpool Lime Street / Warrington Bank Quay, Runcorn East, Chester, Rhyl, Llandudno Junction & Llandudno

Train operator affected
Arriva Trains Wales; Northern Rail;
Description

Overhead wire problems are causing disruption at Eccles.

Because of this, trains between Manchester and Liverpool Lime Street / Warrington Bank Quay via Earlestown may be delayed by up to 30 minutes. These delays will continue until further notice.

Is this a foretaste of things to come?! Getting passengers used to hearing it before the wires go live!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

As I understand it, 0Z42 (66250) came into contact with the overhead wire.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Noticed the following advisory on NRE:
Is this a foretaste of things to come?! Getting passengers used to hearing it before the wires go live!

As I understand it, 0Z42 (66250) came into contact with the overhead wire.

This is the OHLE getting in its retaliation first...
The wires have extended another mile or so westwards across the Moss. They now start/finish around mp23.5.
I travelled that way (eastbound) around 1245 today, no problems.
The return ATW 175 was about 10 minutes late at Chester (I went via Crewe).
Some of the knitting around Eccles looks very temporary.
The Castlefield-Ordsall Lane route is closed for the next few Sundays, no doubt to complete the wiring there.

 

[DJH1971]

The Castlefield-Ordsall Lane route is closed for the next few Sundays, no doubt to complete the wiring there.

Starting to move up a gear now, big style.

 

[Darren R]

As I understand it, 0Z42 (66250) came into contact with the overhead wire.

How?!! What is there on a diesel loco running light that could come into contact with the overhead?

 

[snowball]

How?!! What is there on a diesel loco running light that could come into contact with the overhead?

Maybe the overhead was not in its proper final configuration. A post on skyscrapercity claims

not surprising though as although the wires are up, they've just been flung up... They're not in place properly and there are quite a few places where the wires are just hanging on by the skin of their copper. Many places too where the arms that hold them in place are just hanging loose...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

How?!! What is there on a diesel loco running light that could come into contact with the overhead?

Aside from the cab and roof?

It seems as though the wire was sagging before the loco approached. Network Rail have apparently replaced two droppers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe the overhead was not in its proper final configuration.a post on skyscrapercity claims

If so, that sounds a case of extremely poor practice, noting that traffic is constantly using the line. Will there be an official investigation into this matter, which hopefully will ensure compliance to stated regulations.